The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

Skeptic Bob · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fearandloathing said:
Please prove He wasn't. It's the atheists quest is it not? Not satisfied to believe something, but militant in trying to convince others there is no God.

I don't care if you don't believe, what drives such hate that you have to force others not to believe.

And many, more than any other faith contend He still is.

Reply if you like, I won't respond....this is very boring and childish.

Who is forcing anyone not to believe? I don't think that word means what you think it means?

And as to the OP, regardless of the findings it won't affect Christiany in any way.

Ahlevah · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Mr. Invisible said:
You do realize that I specifically said the West, correct? I definitely emphasized that.

You inserted a modifier ("especially") after you made a direct statement responding to a post that made no such stipulation, but thanks for the clarification. Personally, I think Christianity is under assault everywhere to one degree or another, with the possible exception of the Vatican.

Fearandloathing · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

BrewerBob said:
Who is forcing anyone not to believe? I don't think that word means what you think it means?

And as to the OP, regardless of the findings it won't affect Christiany in any way.

ah, a claim of innocence?

Hardly apt, any given day, in here, in any forum you will have hate filled atheists attacking not God, but Christianity.

And, you show yourself when you make false claims about what I said. Typical.

Tsunami · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Persecution complex, the 80% majority is under assault by the 20% minority. With logic like that I'm not surprised you rely on "faith" rather than reasoning.

Oops back on topic.

Archaeological proof of Jesus' existence might not mean much to a Christian who already believes without evidence, but it does mean something to me. This would be the first physical evidence of his actual existence, as there are no eye-witness accounts or corroboration of any of his narrative from outside of the gospels known to exist. But this wouldn't be the first time someone has faked evidence of this sort also, so I would need to see it independently verified, and considering the archaeological origin of this particular tomb that is unlikely to happen.

tech30528 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Tsunami said:
Persecution complex, the 80% majority is under assault by the 20% minority. With logic like that I'm not surprised you rely on "faith" rather than reasoning.

Oops back on topic.

Archaeological proof of Jesus' existence might not mean much to a Christian who already believes without evidence, but it does mean something to me. This would be the first physical evidence of his actual existence, as there are no eye-witness accounts or corroboration of any of his narrative from outside of the gospels known to exist. But this wouldn't be the first time someone has faked evidence of this sort also, so I would need to see it independently verified, and considering the archaeological origin of this particular tomb that is unlikely to happen.

More like 80% under assault by the 3%. These days it pays to be defensive. So if a gay couple walks in to your store and asks if you will cater their wedding, maybe this would be a better response:

"When is your wedding?"

"Oh we haven't set a date, we were just wondering."

"Ah. So if I say no?"

"Well then we will sue you out of business."

"I see. So you came in to ask a hypothetical question in the hopes of entrapping me so you can take everything I have?"

"Yes."

"So this is an attempted robbery?"

"Uh...."

BANG.

"I'd like to report an attempted robbery. No hurry...."

Skeptic Bob · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

tech30528 said:
More like 80% under assault by the 3%. These days it pays to be defensive. So if a gay couple walks in to your store and asks if you will cater their wedding, maybe this would be a better response:

"When is your wedding?"

"Oh we haven't set a date, we were just wondering."

"Ah. So if I say no?"

"Well then we will sue you out of business."

"I see. So you came in to ask a hypothetical question in the hopes of entrapping me so you can take everything I have?"

"Yes."

"So this is an attempted robbery?"

"Uh...."

BANG.

"I'd like to report an attempted robbery. No hurry...."

I don't know. Offense seems to be working out too.

Imagine NO gay couple has come to your store asking if you will provide service. Instead you just make a public statement stating that IF a gay couple wants service you will refuse.

A bunch of people call you a bigot and boycott your bigoted business.

You start a gofundme page and a bunch of other bigots give you a lot of money and now you don't need your business anymore.

tech30528 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

BrewerBob said:
I don't know. Offense seems to be working out too.

Imagine NO gay couple has come to your store asking if you will provide service. Instead you just make a public statement stating that IF a gay couple wants service you will refuse.

A bunch of people call you a bigot and boycott your bigoted business.

You start a gofundme page and a bunch of other bigots give you a lot of money and now you don't need your business anymore.

Yeah, that blowback's a bitch isn't it? I'm thinking the pizzaria owners should send a few pies to the reporter who went out fishing for a story that didn't exist to begin with.

Blemonds · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Tsunami said:
Persecution complex, the 80% majority is under assault by the 20% minority. With logic like that I'm not surprised you rely on "faith" rather than reasoning.

Oops back on topic.

Archaeological proof of Jesus' existence might not mean much to a Christian who already believes without evidence, but it does mean something to me. This would be the first physical evidence of his actual existence, as there are no eye-witness accounts or corroboration of any of his narrative from outside of the gospels known to exist. But this wouldn't be the first time someone has faked evidence of this sort also, so I would need to see it independently verified, and considering the archaeological origin of this particular tomb that is unlikely to happen.

Isn't that like saying there are no eyewitness accounts outside of those who eye witnessed His life and acts

j-mac · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Dragonfly said:
Wait...what???? What "open attack" is happening today? :roll:

Oh come on! In the west it is absolutely fashionable to rhetorically attack Christianity and Judism while labeled as "racist" to even speak ill of Islam. While I might add ISIS murders Christians in the ME. So don't roll your eyes at me.

Montecresto · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Right, because insisting on equality is an open attack.

RogueWarrior · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fearandloathing said:
Please prove He wasn't. It's the atheists quest is it not? Not satisfied to believe something, but militant in trying to convince others there is no God.

I don't care if you don't believe, what drives such hate that you have to force others not to believe.

And many, more than any other faith contend He still is.

Reply if you like, I won't respond....this is very boring and childish.

Err No.
Atheism is not a quest to prove anything wrong. Will you religious theists EVER understand??? *sigh.
Atheism is NOT believing one simple claim. Not our fault the evidence presented for the various god claims (Thor et al., Zeus et al., Yahweh, Vishnu et al., Zoroaster, Osiris et al., etc) just plain sucks ass.

99 of people are religious theists because their parents were religious theists. I often wonder what would happen if children were raised secular (i.e. religiously neutral) and then given all the information of all the religions and asked to choose the one they wanted to practice...

Belief cannot be forced. Either you have it or you don't.

Fenton · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

RogueWarrior said:
Err No.
Atheism is not a quest to prove anything wrong. Will you religious theists EVER understand??? *sigh.
Atheism is NOT believing one simple claim. Not our fault the evidence presented for the various god claims (Thor et al., Zeus et al., Yahweh, Vishnu et al., Zoroaster, Osiris et al., etc) just plain sucks ass.

99 of people are religious theists because their parents were religious theists. I often wonder what would happen if children were raised secular (i.e. religiously neutral) and then given all the information of all the religions and asked to choose the one they wanted to practice...

Belief cannot be forced. Either you have it or you don't.

Aethism is still a belief in the unknown.
A faith that God doesn't exist based on opinion and not proof.

RogueWarrior · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fenton said:
Aethism is still a belief in the unknown.
A faith that God doesn't exist based on opinion and not proof.

Again, when will you religious theists take off your blinders??? You can't seem to separate your religion from theism. You all seem to think that religion IS theism ffs. Hurray for the US education system!:roll:

Theism is the belief in the claim: a god exists!
Atheism is disbelief in that claim. Where do you get belief in the unknown from this? Atheism.does.not.require.belief.in.anything.

And it is worth mentioning for the umpteenth time:

The default position versus ANY claim is disbelief. (<----- Do you disagree with this?)
Make any claim you want and until you provide sufficient evidence to warrant belief, the claim is disbelieved. Go ahead and try it on any extraordinary claim.

What would the default position be on the claim: The moon is made of cheese.
What would the default position be on the claim: There is an invisible pink unicorn watching over your shoulder as you type.
What would the default position be on the claim: AGW is happening.
What would the default position be on the claim: You have milk on your face.

All these claims have various degrees of outlandishness, but all do not warrant belief until they can be demonstrated to be true.

An atheist might make a claim about the existence of a god or even gods in general, but then the atheist would have to provide support for their claim.
However, most atheists (WAG: 90%) will not make that claim. There is no to reason to attempt to disprove something that is not proven to exist.

Fenton · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

RogueWarrior said:
Again, when will you religious theists take off your blinders??? You can't seem to separate your religion from theism. You all seem to think that religion IS theism ffs. Hurray for the US education system!:roll:

Theism is the belief in the claim: a god exists!
Atheism is disbelief in that claim. Where do you get belief in the unknown from this? Atheism.does.not.require.belief.in.anything.

And it is worth mentioning for the umpteenth time:

The default position versus ANY claim is disbelief. (<----- Do you disagree with this?)
Make any claim you want and until you provide sufficient evidence to warrant belief, the claim is disbelieved. Go ahead and try it on any extraordinary claim.

What would the default position be on the claim: The moon is made of cheese.

What would the default position be on the claim: There is an invisible pink unicorn watching over your shoulder as you type.

What would the default position be on the claim: AGW is happening.

What would the default position be on the claim: You have milk on your face.

All these claims have various degrees of outlandishness, but all do not warrant belief until they can be demonstrated to be true.

An atheist might make a claim about the existence of a god or even gods in general, but then the atheist would have to provide support for their claim.
However, most atheists (WAG: 90%) will not make that claim. There is no to reason to attempt to disprove something that is not proven to exist.

A belief in ANYTHING without proof takes some measure of Faith. " Faith " isn't limited to spiritual issues.

Aethism ask to proves Gods existence, so why shouldnt I be allowed to ask a Aethist to prove he doesn't exist ?

I think some Aethist mistake their position on a higher power as Aethism when in fact its Agnostic.

JoeTrumps · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

I think at this point the atheist view on Jesus would be: he did exist but he wasn't the son of God.

I mean there is just as much proof that Jesus lived than Aristotle or other ancient figures. Think about it. In the New Testament the accounts from eyewitnesses differ in slight(and sometimes big) ways. If there was a group of conspirators writing the book don't you think they would have ALL been sure that their accounts matched EXACTLY. It's like a traffic accident. People will have different stories but the basics remain the same. same thing here.

j-mac · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Montecresto said:
Right, because insisting on equality is an open attack.

How is attacking Christians and Jews but not Muslims "equal"?

RogueWarrior · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fenton said:
A belief in ANYTHING without proof takes some measure of Faith. " Faith " isn't limited to spiritual issues.

Aethism ask to proves Gods existence, so why shouldnt I be allowed to ask a Aethist to prove he doesn't exist ?

I think some Aethist mistake their position on a higher power as Aethism when in fact its Agnostic.

SIGH

Yes believing something without proof requires faith, your point?

Why WHY?
Lets examine the 4 example claims from my post and apply your logic:

The moon is made of cheese. Prove that it isn't
There is an invisible pink unicorn looking over your shoulder as you type. Prove that there isn't.
AGW is happening. Prove that it isn't.
You have milk on your face. Prove that you don't.
There is a god. Prove that there isn't.

This is called 'shifting the burden of proof'. You demand refutation of a claim as if it were an established fact. This you cannot do. If every claim, especially the extraordinary claims like my example #2 above, are to be considered fact, then all sorts of nonsense suddenly becomes fact simply because someone claims it.

And finally what does agnosticism have to do with belief?
For every claim made, there are 2 possible stances: Belief and non-belief. The default is always non-belief, as I just explained.
You can believe but not know why you believe. (eg.: you believe because like most religious people you are born into it; you have never really looked into it)
You can disbelieve and not know why precisely (eg.: the evidence from hinduism, judaism, christianity, islam etc is not compelling)

In both cases, these people, theist and atheist alike, are agnostic.

polgara · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fearandloathing said:
I came to the cross late in life, I was far from indoctrinated...more like dragged kicking and screaming. I have shared my story and often the reaction is "he really wanted you..."

My theological training has all be self-directed, or rather at His hand. So my perspective is termed "fresh" in theological circles.

The longer I walk with this Jewish Carpenter the more how I see His whole point of being here has been grossly mis-understood. He gave no law but one, the "mandatum magnum" ..."love one another".

In some Christian faiths, women are still second class, they can't even preach based on one line in a letter from Paul. And yet we have the acts of Jesus, he "had to cross the Jordan" and enter Samaria [who were despised by Jews].....and what did he do?

He met and spoke with a woman in the middle of the day as an equal. That alone was viewed as a "sin' in some sects of His faith and certainly a gross social insult, as men did not lower themselves to speak to women in public save to give them orders.

And what does Jesus do with this prostitute who has "five husbands"? at the end of his little talk, he sends he away with the words "now, go, and tell them I have come."

In other words, go preach of me to Samaria. He broke every social tenet to speak to a woman, broke more as she was morally judged, and then gives her the responsibility of delivery His message accurately.

That is not keeping women in their place, and it is not judging on moral grounds, a woman hooker as preacher is what HE is all about

There is a book called "The Ragamuffin Gospels"....worth reading

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

You have a new look, I see. Still wearing sunglasses, too! Very mysterious. Is this the one you're going to allow us to take pictures of? :lol:

Tsunami · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Blemonds said:
Isn't that like saying there are no eyewitness accounts outside of those who eye witnessed His life and acts

There are no eyewitness accounts known to exist. There is no corroboration of any of his narrative from outside the gospels. Sorry if my grammar confused you.

DA60 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Religion...by FAR...humanities stupidest invention.

'My God's better then your God.'

'No, mine is better then yours'.

:roll:

What utter nonsense.

poweRob · Apr 8, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

PoS said:
Without the resurrection then Christianity really doesnt have a leg to stand on. But then again Jesus and James were common names back then so it could be anyone even if the tomb is verified. The best way to prove Christianity is to find Lazarus.

Meh... I think that is the flaw of modern Christianity. So damn bent on miracles this and that they don't give a damn about what he was trying to teach people while he was here.

The idiocy of modern Christianity IMO is:

"I pay attention to..."

Virgin birth
Resurrection
Curing Leprosy
Raising Lazarus from the dead

"... and somehow use this as an excuse to cherry pick the Bible in order to raise me up and put others down."

"I ignore..."

The Sermon on the Mount
Everything written in red in the Bible.

"... because I don't give a damn about what Jesus actually said because it runs counter to my life and my life's (and/or political) goals."

jbander · Apr 9, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fearandloathing said:
Except Jesus doesn't have a "final resting place"

Thats your hope anyway but sorry nothing more.

jbander · Apr 9, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

This is a great story, very interesting ,wonder where this is going to go. Jesus story isn't harmed at all by this. Maybe the interpretation of the bible may be but in general not what he did and said and thats where my beliefs lie. The bible is a very confusing piece of literature. There is so much of it's interpretation that was not done by the accuracy of the words but what the interpreter wanted it to say. I've found in literally all my questions of clarity in the bibles words that seem contradictory are answered with the answerers best answer that fits their specific church and not generally a answer that is reasonable or satisfactory.

Montecresto · Apr 9, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

j-mac said:
How is attacking Christians and Jews but not Muslims "equal"?

Who's "attacking" anybody?

Fearandloathing · Apr 9, 2015

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

polgara said:
Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

You have a new look, I see. Still wearing sunglasses, too! Very mysterious. Is this the one you're going to allow us to take pictures of? :lol:

Spring change

The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

Skeptic Bob

Ahlevah

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

Tsunami

Puer Aeternus

tech30528

Skeptic Bob

tech30528

Blemonds

j-mac

Montecresto

RogueWarrior

Fenton

RogueWarrior

Fenton

JoeTrumps

j-mac

RogueWarrior

polgara

Tsunami

Puer Aeternus

DA60

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996

jbander

jbander

Montecresto

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

How long is now?

Puer Aeternus

Puer Aeternus

USMC 1988-1996

How long is now?

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