The Left Needs to Take Back the Constitution

[Cordelier]

You're going to need to explain that. You seem to be saying that Congress can override any state law it wishes to.

Article IV §1
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

One or several States passes an anti-abortion law based upon their asserted compelling interest to protect the life of the unborn. Okay, fair enough. They may all have differing standards on when that life begins. The Congress responds by passing a law saying life beings at viability... is that not a general law prescribing the effect of the various State laws?

Article VI cl. 2
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Does this not bind every State to accept the supreme law of the land, as laid down by the aforementioned Law passed by Congress?

How much more explaining do you need, Nat? In the final analysis, Congress is the final arbiter of when life begins in a legal sense. Not the States. Not the US Supreme Court.

 

[NatMorton]

Does this not bind every State to accept the supreme law of the land, as laid down by the aforementioned Law passed by Congress?

How much more explaining do you need, Nat? In the final analysis, Congress is the final arbiter of when life begins in a legal sense. Not the States. Not the US Supreme Court.

I need a lot more explaining than you're providing. The short answer is no effing way does that passage give Congress ultimate authority over the states on every possible issue.

First, the assertion is refuted by the historical record and the presence of the 9th and 10th amendments. Your assertion goes entirely against the reason those two amendments exist: to limit the scope of the federal government to enumerated authorities.

Second, the mere presence of enumerated authorities logically refutes your assertion. Let's take a simpler example. You have a teenager, and you're giving her a written set of ground rules. Those rules read as follows:

1) You must be home by 8pm on school nights.
2) You must be home by 11pm on weekend nights.
3) You must not smoke, ever.
4) You can do whatever you want, whenever you want to, with or without my permission.

What purpose do rules 1 through 3 serve given rule 4? This is your argument. We have a Constitution with specific enumerated rights set for Congress, and you claim we've also given them a blank check to do whatever they want to do.

No way.

 

[Cordelier]

I need a lot more explaining than you're providing. The short answer is no effing way does that passage give Congress ultimate authority over the states on every possible issue.

First, the assertion is refuted by the historical record and the presence of the 9th and 10th amendments. Your assertion goes entirely against the reason those two amendments exist: to limit the scope of the federal government to enumerated authorities.

Second, the mere presence of enumerated authorities logically refutes your assertion. Let's take a simpler example. You have a teenager, and you're giving her a written set of ground rules. Those rules read as follows:

1) You must be home by 8pm on school nights.
2) You must be home by 11pm on weekend nights.
3) You must not smoke, ever.
4) You can do whatever you want, whenever you want to, with or without my permission.

What purpose do rules 1 through 3 serve given rule 4? This is your argument. We have a Constitution with specific enumerated rights set for Congress, and you claim we've also given them a blank check to do whatever they want to do.

No way.

Does not Article IV §1 contain a specific enumerated authority of Congress? States can pass their public acts, keep their records, and conduct their judicial proceedings... and all of these activities must be given full faith and credit by the other States. But is not Congress empowered to pass general laws deciding the effect of these laws?

Sure, okay, in the aftermath of Dobbs, States can pass laws protecting the life of the unborn. I don't agree with the decision, but I respect it. In the process of enacting these laws, States may even go as far as marking when such life begins. But if Congress acknowledges that States have the right to pass the laws protecting the life of the unborn... why isn't it within their power - given Article IV §1 - to pass a generalized law saying that life begins at viability and establish that as the standard? It has nothing to do with passing the State law or not... it is just legislating on the effect of that law consistent with Article IV §1.

 

[NatMorton]

But if Congress acknowledges that States have the right to pass the laws protecting the life of the unborn

Because Congress does not possess the authority to decide whether they "allow" states to do anything. Congress is told what they, Congress, can and cannot do by a supermajority of Congress and the supermajority of states.

You need to get past this mistaken idea that the federal government is a kind of uber authority that is superior to state legislatures on all things. It's simply not true.

 

[Cordelier]

Because Congress does not possess the authority to decide whether they "allow" states to do anything. Congress is told what they, Congress, can and cannot do by a supermajority of Congress and the supermajority of states.

You need to get past this mistaken idea that the federal government is a kind of uber authority that is superior to state legislatures on all things. It's simply not true.

I posted the relevant Constitutional text, Nat. Your Constitution is the same as mine. It's pretty clear exactly what powers Congress does and does not have. If you're not even going to address the fundamental text, I don't know what else I can add to it.