The Iran War and the Future of the Democrats

[Simpletruther]

No, Dems are just complicit. Hence my focus is on correcting Dems, the only ideological lean I have any remote influence on. Dems are the resistance to fascism, supposedly. The good guys. Am I wrong?

You can draw a straight line from Trump 2016 to Biden 2020 to Trump 2024. Its the exact same strategy.

You know you are far left when the far left croud here thinks you are too left.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Since your policy preferences seem to be a list of Obama-Biden policies, that will, unsurprisingly, require winning the White House again (and probably getting Congress back, too). But yeah, that would be good!

"1, 2, 4, 5, 6, possibly 7, 8, 9, 10, are largely rejected by the Democratic party. Overwhelmingly."

 

[Greenbeard]

"1, 2, 4, 5, 6, possibly 7, 8, 9, 10, are largely rejected by the Democratic party. Overwhelmingly."

Continue the Obama/Biden health care improvements and expansions of public coverage. Do Biden's expanded Child Tax Credit Again. Appoint Biden's FTC appointee again. Do Biden's Build Back Better. Do Obama's Iran deal again. Do Obama's Paris Agreement again.

Thank you for the fresh new ideas, I'm now convinced the Dems need a clean break with the past so they can move in this bold new direction.

 

[multivita-man]

Yep, **** Democrats if they can't resist fascism. What are they there for? To be fluffers?

Can't you just, you know, say **** Republicans once in a while?

 

[Gatsby]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party? Should there by any Litmus Tests or "Purity Standards" outside of defeating Trump? Or is that asking for "perfection"? Because it seems to me that Dems have largely created the situation we currently have.

You got the president and the foreign policy agenda you wanted, and yet you're still blaming Democrats for the foreign policy of a Republican trifecta government. Marvelous.

Half or more of the Democratic Party is onboard with much of Trump's foreign policy (as with Bush during the Iraq Invasion). Schumer was attacking Trump on foreign policy from the right. Biden didn't reenter the Nuclear Deal and explicitly continued Trump's policies. Because they're operating from the same playbook. MAGA is being played for fools. Where is the opposition party?

Well if people like you who supposedly don't want wars aren't going to vote for Democrats, then you shouldn't be surprised that the remaining Democrats are less sympathetic to your goals. Politicians go where the votes are, and obviously the Dirtbag Left cannot be relied upon to provide any. Fair enough, savvy politicians will look elsewhere.

 

[Perotista]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party? Should there by any Litmus Tests or "Purity Standards" outside of defeating Trump? Or is that asking for "perfection"? Because it seems to me that Dems have largely created the situation we currently have. Half or more of the Democratic Party is onboard with much of Trump's foreign policy (as with Bush during the Iraq Invasion). Schumer was attacking Trump on foreign policy from the right. Biden didn't reenter the Nuclear Deal and explicitly continued Trump's policies. Because they're operating from the same playbook. MAGA is being played for fools. Where is the opposition party?

This is the Iraq Invasion 2.0. It's all a lie. Netanyahu has been banging on about Iran for like 30 years. This is a war of pure aggression and hegemony, not defense.



Eyes wide open. There are no excuses.

I think the democratic party has a bright future. If not a bright future, at least one in which the democrats return to power. Although they do have way too many litmus tests for the average American. There was a time when the democratic party was known as the big tent party, the party of the working man. But that party is long gone. The big tent party from roughly FDR until Reagan averaged 45% of the electorate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/feature/party-id-trend/

From Reagan until Obama the democratic party was still the largest party, averaging 35%. Today the democratic party has shrunk down to 28% of all America. The republican party has finally pulled even with them having averaged around 28% from Eisenhower to today.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

The litmus tests from both major parties has seen a rise of independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisan group of voters from 30% of the electorate in 2006 up to 43% today. I think the litmus tests developed by the democratic party over the years is the main reason for their shrinkage. The same for the GOP, their litmus tests have prevented that party from increasing their percentage of the electorate.

The problem, even though independents, the non to less partisan group of voters now make up a plurality, because of our two-party system, they must choose between two sets of litmus tests every election even though they dislike both. These litmus tests are the reasons they left the democratic party along with being the reason they refused to join or become a republican.

About that bright future I mentioned. I expect the democrats to regain control of the house in the 2026 midterms. Mainly because most Americans don’t like the litmus tests the republicans are now forcing on us. That the democrats will regain the presidency in 2028, but promptly lose the house in the 2030 midterms as most Americans will have become very dissatisfied the litmus tests being forced on them by the democrats. Then look for a republican to occupy the white house after the 2032 election. Also look for independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisan group to be the majority of 50% plus by 2032 as both major parties continue to shrink.

 

[Dans La Lune]

You got the president and the foreign policy agenda you wanted, and yet you're still blaming Democrats for the foreign policy of a Republican trifecta government. Marvelous.

From the guy who supports Andrew Cuomo.

Well if people like you who supposedly don't want wars aren't going to vote for Democrats, then you shouldn't be surprised that the remaining Democrats are less sympathetic to your goals. Politicians go where the votes are, and obviously the Dirtbag Left cannot be relied upon to provide any. Fair enough, savvy politicians will look elsewhere.

You wouldn't vote for Zohran Mandami over Cuomo and you have the audacity to lecture me about what's good for the Democratic party.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I think the democratic party has a bright future. If not a bright future, at least one in which the democrats return to power. Although they do have way too many litmus tests for the average American. There was a time when the democratic party was known as the big tent party, the party of the working man. But that party is long gone.

Liz Cheney and AOC can exist within the modern Democratic party. How big should the tent be?

The big tent party from roughly FDR until Reagan averaged 45% of the electorate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/feature/party-id-trend/

From Reagan until Obama the democratic party was still the largest party, averaging 35%. Today the democratic party has shrunk down to 28% of all America. The republican party has finally pulled even with them having averaged around 28% from Eisenhower to today.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

The litmus tests from both major parties has seen a rise of independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisan group of voters from 30% of the electorate in 2006 up to 43% today. I think the litmus tests developed by the democratic party over the years is the main reason for their shrinkage. The same for the GOP, their litmus tests have prevented that party from increasing their percentage of the electorate.

The problem, even though independents, the non to less partisan group of voters now make up a plurality, because of our two-party system, they must choose between two sets of litmus tests every election even though they dislike both. These litmus tests are the reasons they left the democratic party along with being the reason they refused to join or become a republican.

About that bright future I mentioned. I expect the democrats to regain control of the house in the 2026 midterms. Mainly because most Americans don’t like the litmus tests the republicans are now forcing on us. That the democrats will regain the presidency in 2028, but promptly lose the house in the 2030 midterms as most Americans will have become very dissatisfied the litmus tests being forced on them by the democrats. Then look for a republican to occupy the white house after the 2032 election. Also look for independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisan group to be the majority of 50% plus by 2032 as both major parties continue to shrink.

How can a political party look after the interests of both Liz Cheney and AOC voters and still move forward on policy and ALSO win elections? Square that circle for me.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Can't you just, you know, say **** Republicans once in a while?

Um, it's my default state.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Continue the Obama/Biden health care improvements and expansions of public coverage.

It was a Republican-derived healthcare plan and it sucks. It's just better than the garbage before it. It's not a solution and half a million people go bankrupt each year from it, not to mention the deaths.

Do Biden's expanded Child Tax Credit Again.

The Dems did not renew them, thanks to their right-wing members. Gotta maintain that big tent, otherwise they couldn't do those big progressive policies.

Appoint Biden's FTC appointee again.

Kamala was being pressured to remove her by her donors. Since there was not ideology within Kamala, she listens to her donors.

Do Biden's Build Back Better.

Which Dems sabotaged.

Do Obama's Iran deal again.

Which Biden promised he'd rejoin, then continued Trump's policies. And here we are.

Do Obama's Paris Agreement again.

While also stoking hostilities with China.

Thank you for the fresh new ideas, I'm now convinced the Dems need a clean break with the past so they can move in this bold new direction.

Did Biden stop Trump after being given the tools and power to do so in 2020?

 

[JoeB131]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party? Should there by any Litmus Tests or "Purity Standards" outside of defeating Trump? Or is that asking for "perfection"? Because it seems to me that Dems have largely created the situation we currently have. Half or more of the Democratic Party is onboard with much of Trump's foreign policy (as with Bush during the Iraq Invasion). Schumer was attacking Trump on foreign policy from the right. Biden didn't reenter the Nuclear Deal and explicitly continued Trump's policies. Because they're operating from the same playbook. MAGA is being played for fools. Where is the opposition party?

This is the Iraq Invasion 2.0. It's all a lie. Netanyahu has been banging on about Iran for like 30 years. This is a war of pure aggression and hegemony, not defense.

Eyes wide open. There are no excuses.

The problem here is that BOTH parties have been doing the bidding of AIPAC for decades. Israel says Jump, both parties say, "How high".

Frankly, one of the more disgusting things Democrats did in the Aughts was they were 100% for the war (well, maybe 80%) when it started, but when it started to go south, and our soldiers were knee-deep into the manure, they started treating Saddam like he was a clubbed baby seal.

First you stop the arterial bleeding.

I do, however, agree with AOC and Hogg that a good chunk of democratic congressmen and senators need to be replaced.

Yes, let's get rid of people who know what they are doing and replace them with more nuts like AOC.

 

[JoeB131]

Did they stand by while Trump got elected, to show off their purity?

No, they just dug themselves into a hole on immigration, transgenders, inflation and let Trump push in the dirt on them.

 

[Dans La Lune]

The problem here is that BOTH parties have been doing the bidding of AIPAC for decades. Israel says Jump, both parties say, "How high".

Frankly, one of the more disgusting things Democrats did in the Aughts was they were 100% for the war (well, maybe 80%) when it started, but when it started to go south, and our soldiers were knee-deep into the manure, they started treating Saddam like he was a clubbed baby seal.



Yes, let's get rid of people who know what they are doing and replace them with more nuts like AOC.

The first half of your post is at WAR with the second half.

 

[Dans La Lune]

No, they just dug themselves into a hole on immigration, transgenders, inflation and let Trump push in the dirt on them.

Which people should Dems throw under the bus to prevent fascism? I'll help you out. It's a trick question: You can't get to fascism without throwing groups under the bus.

 

[JoeB131]

Which people should Dems throw under the bus to prevent fascism? I'll help you out. It's a trick question: You can't get to fascism without throwing groups under the bus.

As Otto von Bismarck once observed, Politics is the Art of the Possible.

Transgenders are less than 1% of the population, but Democrats were willing to throw parents of teens under the bus to appease them.

Undocumented immigrants aren't even American Citizens and have no legal right to be here, but Democrats were willing to throw regular Americans under the bus to appease them.

As I've stated many times, Trump's biggest gains in 2024 were among Hispanics, Asians, and people making less than 50K a year. People who were impacted by illegal immigration and, to boot, had to put up with their daughters showering with boys.

The Democrats decided these were the hills they wanted to die on, and they did.

 

[JoeB131]

The first half of your post is at WAR with the second half.

No, it isn't.

It's possible to hold two different opinions.

The Israeli Lobby has too much power in this country.

The Socialist idiots like Commie Bernie, Hogg, and AOC are destroying the Democratic Brand.

 

[Greenbeard]

It was a Republican-derived healthcare plan and it sucks. It's just better than the garbage before it. It's not a solution and half a million people go bankrupt each year from it, not to mention the deaths.



The Dems did not renew them, thanks to their right-wing members. Gotta maintain that big tent, otherwise they couldn't do those big progressive policies.



Kamala was being pressured to remove her by her donors. Since there was not ideology within Kamala, she listens to her donors.



Which Dems sabotaged.



Which Biden promised he'd rejoin, then continued Trump's policies. And here we are.



While also stoking hostilities with China.



Did Biden stop Trump after being given the tools and power to do so in 2020?

I agree with you that Obama-Bidenism is good, I'm just sort of surprised to see you insist it be the future of the party. But yeah, let's run it back!

 

[Dans La Lune]

No, it isn't.

It's possible to hold two different opinions.

The Israeli Lobby has too much power in this country.

The Socialist idiots like Commie Bernie, Hogg, and AOC are destroying the Democratic Brand.

The socialists in the Democratic party have no power, there's maybe three of them in the entire party (Bernie is an independent), so they're clearly not destroying the brand.

You want to go further right than the already-right-wing Democrats who actually ARE controlling the party? OKAY.

Also: Bernie would have beaten Trump.

 

[Dans La Lune]

As Otto von Bismarck once observed, Politics is the Art of the Possible.

Transgenders are less than 1% of the population,

Yet also the biggest factor in American politics for some reason.

but Democrats were willing to throw parents of teens under the bus to appease them.

How so? The parents of teens want their children to receive healthcare. Republicans oppose that.

Undocumented immigrants aren't even American Citizens and have no legal right to be here, but Democrats were willing to throw regular Americans under the bus to appease them.

Do you realize that Undocumented Immigrants are holding up the economy and contribute infinitely more to programs than they take? The Social Security Trust Fund would have collapsed without them. America SHOULD address the undocumented issue, just not in the way that right-wingers want. They are an enormous contribution to society and the economy, and thus civilization.

As I've stated many times, Trump's biggest gains in 2024 were among Hispanics, Asians, and people making less than 50K a year. People who were impacted by illegal immigration and, to boot, had to put up with their daughters showering with boys.

You mean Trump offered sacrificial scapegoats to appease people suffering from economic issues without actually addressing the underlying problems? And Democrats, who don't believe in anything, and offered nothing, could not formulate a coherent message to respond? I agree. Dems don't believe in anything, thus they cannot argue the merits of what they pretend to support.

The Democrats decided these were the hills they wanted to die on, and they did.

In 2016, Trump was tolerant of trans. In 2024, Republicans poured hundreds of millions into the anti-trans messaging. If the issue as saliant on its own, there'd be no need. Right? The fact is that if you've reached the point where cultural / gender issues are deciding the fate of a political party, that party (Democrats) has failed in every other way. Not that trans people or immigrants or black people or gay people or Arabs need to be thrown under the bus in order to get right-wing votes that are NEVER coming.

You cannot get to fascism without marginalizing groups, which makes marginalizing those groups political suicide for any party that wants to actually fight fascism.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I agree with you that Obama-Bidenism is good, I'm just sort of surprised to see you insist it be the future of the party. But yeah, let's run it back!

So AOC for president?

 

[MAGAnificent]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party? Should there by any Litmus Tests or "Purity Standards" outside of defeating Trump? Or is that asking for "perfection"? Because it seems to me that Dems have largely created the situation we currently have. Half or more of the Democratic Party is onboard with much of Trump's foreign policy (as with Bush during the Iraq Invasion). Schumer was attacking Trump on foreign policy from the right. Biden didn't reenter the Nuclear Deal and explicitly continued Trump's policies. Because they're operating from the same playbook. MAGA is being played for fools. Where is the opposition party?

This is the Iraq Invasion 2.0. It's all a lie. Netanyahu has been banging on about Iran for like 30 years. This is a war of pure aggression and hegemony, not defense.



Eyes wide open. There are no excuses.

The big lie was actually the nuke deal that Obama signed the US into.

 

[Greenbeard]

So AOC for president?

Maybe! Although the secret (legislative) ingredient of Obama-Bidenism was Pelosi, so I wouldn't mind AOC absorbing whatever magic powers Pelosi had and staying put.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Frankly, one of the more disgusting things Democrats did in the Aughts was they were 100% for the war (well, maybe 80%) when it started, but when it started to go south, and our soldiers were knee-deep into the manure, they started treating Saddam like he was a clubbed baby seal.

What the **** are you talking about?

 

[ataraxia]

This is a war of pure aggression and hegemony, not defense.

I don't know about this. If you have a country sitting there saying you should die for 30 years straight, and then working on nukes, at some point you have to take it seriously.

This mullah regime in Iran is a bunch of really bad dudes. They are a highly dangerous destabilizing force and threat- not just against Israel, or even for the middle middle east in general, but the whole world. The world will be a better place if they are gone, or at least neutered and put in their place.

 

[markdc]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party? Should there by any Litmus Tests or "Purity Standards" outside of defeating Trump? Or is that asking for "perfection"? Because it seems to me that Dems have largely created the situation we currently have. Half or more of the Democratic Party is onboard with much of Trump's foreign policy (as with Bush during the Iraq Invasion). Schumer was attacking Trump on foreign policy from the right. Biden didn't reenter the Nuclear Deal and explicitly continued Trump's policies. Because they're operating from the same playbook. MAGA is being played for fools. Where is the opposition party?

This is the Iraq Invasion 2.0. It's all a lie. Netanyahu has been banging on about Iran for like 30 years. This is a war of pure aggression and hegemony, not defense.



Eyes wide open. There are no excuses.

Given the way things are going for Democrats right now, they might be better of putting themselves out of their misery and pulling a Jonestown.

Mark