The Iran War and the Future of the Democrats

[noonereal]

First you stop the arterial bleeding.

I do, however, agree with AOC and Hogg that a good chunk of democratic congressmen and senators need to be replaced.

But NOT with left loons.
With YOUNG Ivy educated centrists.

 

[Michael Cole]

The bare minimum. Otherwise you drift rightward, and end up in the exact position we're currently at.

Post in thread 'The Iran War and the Future of the Democrats'

Jun 18, 2025

Ok but what is your actual proposal?

Because so far it seems to be "don't lose!" Wow, genius.

I was asking for opinions. Do you want my proposal for a winning strategy and the umbrella from which to organize the party? Sure. I'm not shy.

A coalition between the Left and Center-Left voters against fascism, focusing on a viable progressive policy, human dignity, civil rights, de-escalation on foreign policy, humanitarian aid where necessary, and not transgressing against red line issues like genocide. I would make this the broad agenda; the base level of entry into the...

• Dans La Lune

What constitutes "the bare minimum?" You'll need to be more explicit.

 

[Dans La Lune]

What constitutes "the bare minimum?" You'll need to be more explicit.

I outlined it in my post. Read it. I linked to it.

 

[Michael Cole]

What have they done wrong?

Read the OP. Read the thread.

The entire thread is based on Democrats doing things wrong.

 

[Michael Cole]

I outlined it in my post. Read it. I linked to it.

I read it. I saw a lot of rhetoric but no action. What should Democrats do?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Read the OP. Read the thread.

The entire thread is based on Democrats doing things wrong.

The OP asks for opinions. The thread is mostly me answering for the Progressive Sin of having any core values whatsoever.

 

[Michael Cole]

The OP asks for opinions. The thread is mostly me answering for the Progressive Sin of having any core values whatsoever.

Okay.

Lots of people have core principles. One of mine is that I'd rather suffer eating a steady diet of beans and rice than to go hungry. Sometimes, you have to realize that steak can be the goal, but you'll need to settle for the beans and rice in order to reach that goal.

Core values are wonderful. In a democracy, we're each entitled to our own values. Compromise is how things get done.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I read it. I saw a lot of rhetoric but no action. What should Democrats do?

1) Obey US Law (e.g. cut off military aid to those who perpetrate war crimes).

2) Improve Healthcare; Medicare For All

3) Decrease Income Inequality through taxation; Re-fund the IRS

4) Make it a violation of party principles to accept corporate corruption.

5) Adhere to and strengthen the legitimacy of international law.

6) Make the Child Tax Credit Extension (which reduced childhood poverty by 50% overnight) permanent.

7) Re-hire Lena Khan to the FTC.

8) Build Back Better was good in its original proposal. Go further.

9) Get back in the Iran Nuclear Deal.

10) Look for ways to cooperate with countries like China on climate change.

Just off the top of my head. I would say #1 is foundational. The rest are negotiable and open to discussion and wiggle room.

Sound reasonable?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Okay.

Lots of people have core principles. One of mine is that I'd rather suffer eating a steady diet of beans and rice than to go hungry. Sometimes, you have to realize that steak can be the goal, but you'll need to settle for the beans and rice in order to reach that goal.

Core values are wonderful. In a democracy, we're each entitled to our own values. Compromise is how things get done.

Would you vote for genocide?

 

[Michael Cole]

Would you vote for genocide?

Okay, you're not a serious poster.

 

[Deuce]

I was asking for opinions. Do you want my proposal for a winning strategy and the umbrella from which to organize the party? Sure. I'm not shy.

A coalition between the Left and Center-Left voters against fascism, focusing on a viable progressive policy, human dignity, civil rights, de-escalation on foreign policy, humanitarian aid where necessary, and not transgressing against red line issues like genocide. I would make this the broad agenda; the base level of entry into the coalition. Moderates would then have to decide on who to caucus with; the fascist right, or the progressive left. I would rather the compromise be towards solutions and ideas that the voters want, not asking progressive to eat half a pile or shit every single time.

I can expand upon it if you want.

All of those things are already parts of the Democratic platform except for feeding weapons to Israel, and "hey lets stop supplying weapons for genocide" is not an exciting new thought you just had.

And guess what? We ****in lost. Americans are fine with lawlessness, fascism, and genocide. The problem isn't the platform, the problem is that we are a profoundly cruel and ignorant society.

 

[Hello My Son]

Read the OP. Read the thread.

The entire thread is based on Democrats doing things wrong.

That's patently untrue. Aside from a few far-leftists claiming that the left has "enabled fascism," there has not been a single reference to a specific mistake, miscalculation, or downright bad thing that the Democrats have done.

Point me to a single post by a liberal that specifies examples of what the Democrats have done or are doing wrong.

 

[Michael Cole]

That's patently untrue. Aside from a few far-leftists claiming that the left has "enabled fascism," there has not been a single reference to a specific mistake, miscalculation, or downright bad thing that the Democrats have done.

Point me to a single post by a liberal that specifies examples of what the Democrats have done or are doing wrong.

You're obviously in the wrong thread.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Okay, you're not a serious poster.

I'm as serious as genocide.

 

[Dans La Lune]

All of those things are already parts of the Democratic platform except for feeding weapons to Israel, and "hey lets stop supplying weapons for genocide" is not an exciting new thought you just had.

1, 2, 4, 5, 6, possibly 7, 8, 9, 10, are largely rejected by the Democratic party. Overwhelmingly.

And guess what? We ****in lost. Americans are fine with lawlessness, fascism, and genocide. The problem isn't the platform, the problem is that we are a profoundly cruel and ignorant society.

Your perception of the 2024 election does not match mine.

 

[Hello My Son]

What have they done wrong?

Read the OP. Read the thread.

The entire thread is based on Democrats doing things wrong.

So point to some quotes that specifically cite what Democrats have done wrong. It shouldn't be that difficult if "the entire thread" is about that.

And without a hint of irony, after you posted the above thing to me, you posted this:

I read it. I saw a lot of rhetoric but no action. What should Democrats do?

So you're acknowledging that nobody in the thread has outlined what Democrats SHOULD DO, but you're simultaneously claiming the "entire thread" is about everything the Democrats SHOULDN'T DO?

And you did this in consecutive posts....

That's patently untrue. Aside from a few far-leftists claiming that the left has "enabled fascism," there has not been a single reference to a specific mistake, miscalculation, or downright bad thing that the Democrats have done.

Point me to a single post by a liberal that specifies examples of what the Democrats have done or are doing wrong.

You're obviously in the wrong thread.

Obviously, I'm not. There has been one post that suggests a list of things the Democrats should do, but unless it comes through while I'm typing this post, there are no posts that outline what specifically the Democrats have done wrong. If there was a post like this, you would've linked to it in a heartbeat. So you can stop with the unnecessary obtuse and avoidance bullshit posts.

 

[hooligan]

1) Obey US Law (e.g. cut off military aid to those who perpetrate war crimes).

2) Improve Healthcare; Medicare For All

3) Decrease Income Inequality through taxation; Re-fund the IRS

4) Make it a violation of party principles to accept corporate corruption.

5) Adhere to and strengthen the legitimacy of international law.

6) Make the Child Tax Credit Extension (which reduced childhood poverty by 50% overnight) permanent.

7) Re-hire Lena Khan to the FTC.

8) Build Back Better was good in its original proposal. Go further.

9) Get back in the Iran Nuclear Deal.

10) Look for ways to cooperate with countries like China on climate change.

Just off the top of my head. I would say #1 is foundational. The rest are negotiable and open to discussion and wiggle room.

Sound reasonable?

Which of these do you feel current Dem politicians oppose, exactly?

 

[reinaert]

I don't like the Dems who represent my state, and the local ones are like Charlie Brown running towards a Republican Lucy.

But.

I'm not going to spite myself working to kill the campaign of a bland "centrist" Dem, when I know there's a Republican liar waiting just off stage to barnum up some populism and nativism.

The Democrats definitely have the brand toxicity of Ticketmaster. The alternative is a fascist party doing real time Pinochet shit on an accelerated schedule.

That written, anywhere you can field an Ind. candidate with D or DFL policy proposals, and not help the GOP, do it. Schumer and Co need to be reminded that gatekeepers can be hurt by gate hinges.

 

[dmpi]

My theory of change is to engage tactics that actually prove to be effective, which of course are grounded in logic and reasoning rather than hysteria and emotionally acting out.

The fact that the left hasn't figured out that their tactics have failed is beyond comical at this point.

Think about this--there's a well-established faction on the conservative right that's existed for nearly a decade now....the faction of "Never-Trumpers," and in spite of their existence, the left has done absolutely nothing to team up with them or independents who don't like Trump. They've had nearly 10 years to figure this out.

But because their "tactic" is to whine and call everyone names when others don't agree about every leftist issue 100% of the time, they have emboldened Trump and kept him relevant well past the time that he would've otherwise been able to stick around in politics.

10 years of doing the same shit and STILL not realizing it's not working isn't just a form of ineffectiveness. It's pervasive unintelligence on a grand scale.

MAGA hasn't been so impactful because Trump & Co. are so effective and brilliant. They've been impactful because the left is so damn moronic in its strategizing.

Even though they're the 'democratic' party, they are far from being democratic. They don't team up with anybody, rather they only accept people to join their team. It's no secret that a lot of traditional conservatives don't like Trump, but they're even further from selling their soul and drinking the Democratic Kool-aid.

 

[Dans La Lune]

My opinion: Establishment Dems cannot get off the hook here. There needs to be a mia culpa, as a political entity, for them to be taken seriously going forward. A restructuring. And the judge is not me, it's voters. You can't throw enough voter shame on me to make the previous strategy viable. You cannot rebrand neoliberalism for the 9000th time ("Abundance"), and then we all hold hands and move forward as though nothing happened and nothing changes.

Can you imagine a Biden or Kamala-type figure trying to return to the pre-2016 status after all this happened? The genie is out of the bottle. We go Left or Further Right. Those who profited from the previous Status Quo (the Tech Broligarchy) have made their choice and are looking towards a post-America tech feudalism, using Trump as the wrecking ball. Choose your allies.

Thread 'The Post-Trump World: Coming to a Dystopia Near You'

Jun 18, 2025

Francesca Fiorentini discusses the a post-Trump world, created by Capitalism (surprise!) and the weird-as-**** Tech Broligarcy, with the humor that only she can provide. Basically America is done and exists only to be picked apart like a lion's carcass and we're going to transition to a form of tech-apartheid feudalism ruled by the "Greys" (basically people like Curtis Yarvin).

"Curtis Yarvin believes in Monarchy, and the unchecked power of the President (or CEO), and speaks with the obnoxious candor of the kid in class who ate his boogers... at you?"

Trump basically...

• Dans La Lune
• Replies: 6
• Forum: General Political Discussion

• 

 

[Deuce]

Even though they're the 'democratic' party, they are far from being democratic. They don't team up with anybody, rather they only accept people to join their team. It's no secret that a lot of traditional conservatives don't like Trump, but they're even further from selling their soul and drinking the Democratic Kool-aid.

Yes, we're aware that conservatives would rather give up democracy than lose.

 

[aociswundumho]

What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party?

I think it's going to move very much to the left, and I believe AOC will be the nominee in 2028.

They really have nowhere else to go but left.

 

[dmpi]

I think it's going to move very much to the left, and I believe AOC will be the nominee in 2028.

They really have nowhere else to go but left.

During Mao cultural revolution of the late 50s he put all the young revolutionist in charge of the country and they subsequently ran it into the ground. With AOC in charge, expect the same thing.

 

[Deuce]

During Mao cultural revolution of the late 50s he put all the young revolutionist in charge of the country and they subsequently ran it into the ground. With AOC in charge, expect the same thing.

From the people who are already running the country into the ground.

 

[Greenbeard]

1) Obey US Law (e.g. cut off military aid to those who perpetrate war crimes).

2) Improve Healthcare; Medicare For All

3) Decrease Income Inequality through taxation; Re-fund the IRS

4) Make it a violation of party principles to accept corporate corruption.

5) Adhere to and strengthen the legitimacy of international law.

6) Make the Child Tax Credit Extension (which reduced childhood poverty by 50% overnight) permanent.

7) Re-hire Lena Khan to the FTC.

8) Build Back Better was good in its original proposal. Go further.

9) Get back in the Iran Nuclear Deal.

10) Look for ways to cooperate with countries like China on climate change.

Just off the top of my head. I would say #1 is foundational. The rest are negotiable and open to discussion and wiggle room.

Sound reasonable?

Since your policy preferences seem to be a list of Obama-Biden policies, that will, unsurprisingly, require winning the White House again (and probably getting Congress back, too). But yeah, that would be good!