My point is how much the Ukraine war exposes the issue. It makes if much clearer than it has been.That American foreign policy has betrayed our own stated principles since the inception of the country shouldn't be news to anyone who pays attention (or has a sound reading of history).
Certainly. I started a thread that touched on US propaganda for foreign wars a while ago.We see Russians indifferent and think how can they be so horrible, we see Americans indifferent on Yemen and think what? It's a hell of a lesson for us. Of course, have you seen any mention of that in US media? Putin controls his media so they don't talk about the war; our media is free, but they talk very little about the Yemen war... another lesson for us.
The US bombed Al Jazeera’s office in Kabul during the 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan, and attacked the media outlet multiple times during the 2003 Iraq invasion, including the killing of Ayoub, despite the fact that Al Jazeera supplied the Pentagon with their headquarter’s coordinates in Baghdad in February 2003. (Source)
This has long been the case. LBJ and John Wayne were political enemies, but LBJ had the military provide assistance for Wayne's movie on Vietnam because it fit his agenda. Meanwhile, IIRC the Pentagon demanded changes to other Vietnam films they wouldn't make so they didn't get help. This can be a big issue for movie studios who care a lot about the finances. At least it's not China where they'd be jailed.Certainly. I started a thread that touched on US propaganda for foreign wars a while ago.
The military entertainment complex
I'm sure many people have heard of the military industrial complex, but many have not heard of it's cousin, the military entertainment complex. Most people don't realize the military has any connections with the film industry. However, the DOD actually has an entire office dedicated solely to...debatepolitics.com
The US really ****ed shit up in Yemen and more directly in Iraq.
Now, I do think Russia's behavior in this conflict is distinctly worse than the US in Yemen and Iraq, though I'm sure that's small comfort to the dead in both those places.
Hopefully this conflict can turn into a broader anti-interventionist movement domestically and people can become more aware of American exceptionalism propaganda.
Now, I do think Russia's behavior in this conflict is distinctly worse than the US in Yemen and Iraq, though I'm sure that's small comfort to the dead in both those places.
Hopefully this conflict can turn into a broader anti-interventionist movement domestically and people can become more aware of American exceptionalism propaganda.
I know. I felt the need to add that qualifier because I've seen far too many on the left use the crimes of the US in some sort of attempt to deflect from Russia's actions. So for anyone reading I wanted to make it clear I was not doing that.I didn't compare the US on Yemen to Russia on Ukraine.
I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 23. It is pretty established that that millennials and GenZ are more progressive than previous generations. A lot of my peers don't get their news from our media. 15-30 year olds generally aren't watching CNN or anything. For better or worse, they are seeing progressive talking points from TikTok's, twitter, and memes. I'll find some examples.That would be a good thing but it's quite unlikely I suspect. How much are you hearing any such points in our media? The commentary I linked is from a good independent British group, not 'big media'.
I know. I felt the need to add that qualifier because I've seen far too many on the left use the crimes of the US in some sort of attempt to deflect from Russia's actions. So for anyone reading I wanted to make it clear I was not doing that.
I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 23. It is pretty established that that millennials and GenZ are more progressive than previous generations. A lot of my peers don't get their news from our media. 15-30 year olds generally aren't watching CNN or anything. For better or worse, they are seeing progressive talking points from TikTok's, twitter, and memes. I'll find some examples.
Movies, their parents, conservative TikTok's, "Ben Shaprio own SJW" compilations. All the same social pressures that are in regular culture still exist on twitter/TikTok/reddit etc. Or at least a mirror of them does. However, you are far more likely to be exposed to leftist arguments against American exceptionalism on twitter than if you only watch CNN. As someone who grew up fairly online, you are also much more likely to have online friends in other countries which often pokes a lot of holes by itself in American Exceptionalism.But the 'propaganda on American exceptionalism' you mention, where are those young people being exposed to that? Since you mentioned that propaganda, I think that's largely a media thing, which is what I mentioned.
It's unfortunate the phrase 'American exceptionalism' has been corrupted to be a false cover for abuse of power, perhaps racial superiority at times, etc. I think there is a valid meaning to the phrase that is hurt by its corruption - the US is exceptional in very important ways, such as our championing democratic government over tyranny, though right now I think we can learn from Ukraine in some ways.Movies, their parents, conservative TikTok's, "Ben Shaprio own SJW" compilations. All the same social pressures that are in regular culture still exist on twitter/TikTok/reddit etc. Or at least a mirror of them does. However, you are far more likely to be exposed to leftist arguments against American exceptionalism on twitter than if you only watch CNN. As someone who grew up fairly online, you are also much more likely to have online friends in other countries which often pokes a lot of holes by itself in American Exceptionalism.
It hasn't been corrupted. It was a phrase that was created with meaning it holds today.It's unfortunate the phrase 'American exceptionalism' has been corrupted
It means what it has always meant. That isn't to say that any sentiment that America is exceptional is 'American Exceptionalism'. There are certainly things that are exceptional about America, such as our national parks.American exceptionalism is the idea that the United States is inherently different from other nations.[2] Its proponents argue that the values, political system, and historical development of the U.S. are unique in human history, often with the implication that the country is both destined and entitled to play a distinct and positive role on the world stage. (Source)
I mean...so...the narrative that the US is some sort of champion for democracy (or more so than other nations are) is American Exceptionalism. When we have supported democracies I think that is a good thing, but it is false that the US does so in an exceptionally positive way compared to other countries.the US is exceptional in very important ways, such as our championing democratic government over tyranny
It hasn't been corrupted. It was a phrase that was created with meaning it holds today.
It means what it has always meant. That isn't to say that any sentiment that America is exceptional is 'American Exceptionalism'. There are certainly things that are exceptional about America, such as our national parks.
I mean...so...the narrative that the US is some sort of champion for democracy (or more so than other nations are) is American Exceptionalism. When we have supported democracies I think that is a good thing, but it is false that the US does so in an exceptionally positive way compared to other countries.
The primary responsibility of the American President is the welfare of America and American citizens.As we so rightly are seeing the horror of Putin acting like a monster, lying his way to mass murder of innocent people for his own pursuit of power, it's exposing history of western actions as much worse than people have treated them - wars like Vietnam and Iraq based on lies also - and how we care more about some victims of wrong wars more than others.
We watch in disgust and fury as we see China quietly maneuvering to support Putin for their own political agenda and benefit - which exposes countries like the US and UK doing the same thing for Saudi Arabia while they murder an American resident who was a critic of them (just like Putin has), they execute people for 'wrong beliefs', and most importantly wage a wrong war on Yemen for reasons as bad or worse than Putin's war on Ukraine.
Saudi Arabia's internal politics include a king who valued ruthlessness in someone wanting to rule, and the current crown prince wasn't in line to rule, he wasn't an 'eldest son', but he saw waging a ruthless war on Yemen as a way to impress the King with his ruthlessness - and it worked and the King made him the effective and next ruler. The US's and UK's very different responses because they get benefits from Saudi Arabia are shown as terrible.
Only to those that haven’t been paying attention.My point is how much the Ukraine war exposes the issue. It makes if much clearer than it has been.
As we so rightly are seeing the horror of Putin acting like a monster, lying his way to mass murder of innocent people for his own pursuit of power, it's exposing history of western actions as much worse than people have treated them - wars like Vietnam and Iraq based on lies also - and how we care more about some victims of wrong wars more than others.
We watch in disgust and fury as we see China quietly maneuvering to support Putin for their own political agenda and benefit - which exposes countries like the US and UK doing the same thing for Saudi Arabia while they murder an American resident who was a critic of them (just like Putin has), they execute people for 'wrong beliefs', and most importantly wage a wrong war on Yemen for reasons as bad or worse than Putin's war on Ukraine.
Saudi Arabia's internal politics include a king who valued ruthlessness in someone wanting to rule, and the current crown prince wasn't in line to rule, he wasn't an 'eldest son', but he saw waging a ruthless war on Yemen as a way to impress the King with his ruthlessness - and it worked and the King made him the effective and next ruler. The US's and UK's very different responses because they get benefits from Saudi Arabia are shown as terrible.
Virtually every country looks exceptional compared to them.Look at China and Russia today, for example.
We only really support democracy/freedom when it benefits us. We have been just as quick to support dictators and authoritarian regimes when it suites us. Just look at Saudi Arabia.The US is the most important global advocate for freedom over their tyranny, despite our big problems, there's no comparison.
From a few progressive meme pages and groups I am in.For better or worse, they are seeing progressive talking points from TikTok's, twitter, and memes. I'll find some examples.
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