The Holiday is "Christmas" for Heavens Sake!

[Daire]

Maybe it has something to do with the shortage of Romans around to celebrate Saturnalia.

 

[Medusa]

I just got back from shopping for Christmas cards and I am about as frustrated as I can be. For the last month I have been going round and round to try to find religious themed cards for this holiday. Today I found exactly THREE religious themed cards in each of two Hallmark stores (and two or less in all the other stores I checked) in aisles specifically dedicated to Christmas cards.

Unlike many I don't buy a box of cards and send everyone I know the same card. I personally consider that a lazy way to let friends and loved ones know you are thinking of them during the Christmas season.

Instead, I go out shopping for a special card for each person that I hope reflects my feelings and my knowledge of their interests and/or beliefs.

But it has become harder and harder to do in this web-connected society as people are sending more things electronically, and fewer by snail mail.

Still, when I go out to stores specializing in gifts and greeting cards I expect them to stock the appropriate products, in this case RELIGIOUS THEMED CHRISTMAS CARDS!!!

Everywhere I go I find cards saying "Happy Holidays," or "Seasons Greetings," turning what is supposed to be the celebration of the birth of an important religious figure into a secular holiday. Is it THAT socially unacceptable to recognize that the holiday is a Religious holiday, and accept the religious theme without rancor or offense?

Now as of the most recent Gallup Poll in 2012 77% of Americans identify themselves as Christian, while a PEW report in 2015 indicates it is 71%.

In U.S., 77% Identify as Christian

America?s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

So someone please explain WHY, when the majority of Americans consider themselves Christian, one cannot find cards celebrating the birth of Christ to send to their friends and family?

I have to agree!!

 

[maquiscat]

Jesus is the reason for the season. Merry Christmas.

Given that Chaunaka came first, historically, would that not be the reason for the season. Christmas was a tag along and deliberately placed at the solstice season to take over Yule, which also precedes Christmas. The season was, long before Christmas was.

 

[maquiscat]

For people who follow Christ, all of our activities center around Him. It's the reason for the season. I think it only appears secular to non believers.

There are essentially two separate Christmases. The religious holiday and the secular holiday. They are similar yet different in much the same way a legal marriage differs yet is similar to a religious marriage. Now many Christians celebrate both, much like many are married both religiously and legally. The extent that Christians place one over the other varies. Rarely are the two aspects perfectly balanced. So it does not appear secular to others, it is. However, I will agree that many don't see all the religious aspects that a Christian does in celebrating the religious Christmas

 

[countryboy]

There are essentially two separate Christmases. The religious holiday and the secular holiday. They are similar yet different in much the same way a legal marriage differs yet is similar to a religious marriage. Now many Christians celebrate both, much like many are married both religiously and legally. The extent that Christians place one over the other varies. Rarely are the two aspects perfectly balanced. So it does not appear secular to others, it is. However, I will agree that many don't see all the religious aspects that a Christian does in celebrating the religious Christmas

You just don't get it. A Christian doesn't celebrate "both" because there is no "both". When we, as Christians, get together with family, or shop for gifts, or attend church celebrations or observances, etc etc, we recognize the reason we are doing these things is to celebrate the birth of Christ. It is all, essentially religious for us. Understand? It is what's in one's heart that matters.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays, or whatever is is you celebrate.

 

[AGENT J]

For people who follow Christ, all of our activities center around Him. It's the reason for the season. I think it only appears secular to non believers.

You just don't get it. A Christian doesn't celebrate "both" because there is no "both". When we, as Christians, get together with family, or shop for gifts, or attend church celebrations or observances, etc etc, we recognize the reason we are doing these things is to celebrate the birth of Christ. It is all, essentially religious for us. Understand? It is what's in one's heart that matters.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays, or whatever is is you celebrate.

100% factually not true. LMAO
that might be what YOU do or people you know do but that does not hold true for all Christians. Your statement as written is factually wrong :shrug:

 

[maquiscat]

You just don't get it. A Christian doesn't celebrate "both" because there is no "both". When we, as Christians, get together with family, or shop for gifts, or attend church celebrations or observances, etc etc, we recognize the reason we are doing these things is to celebrate the birth of Christ. It is all, essentially religious for us. Understand? It is what's in one's heart that matters.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays, or whatever is is you celebrate.

Both Christmas and Yule, thank you. Merry Christmas to you.

There are many secular aspects that many Christians engage in. Simply because you do or do not do certain things, it has no impact on whether other Christians do so. Santa has nothing to do with the the religious aspect of Christmas, yet many Christians, take their kids to see Santa, tell stories of him and his reindeer and man other things that have nothing to do with Christ and his birth. What does singing about Frosty the Snowman have to do with Christ? Reality is that many Christians, to one degree or another, celebrates secular aspects of Christmas as well as the religious aspects.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Is there some evidence that leads you to believe that PC activism is to blame for there not being many religious cards at Hallmark, rather than simply a lack of demand for the product?

Personal observations over the last 40 years. I've lived in 15 states and visited several others in my lifetime, and recall when I could go into a card store and find non-religious cards for my secular friends, and religious cards for my religious friends. Starting about 20 years ago I began to see fewer and fewer options and more and more "Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings."

I asked in my OP, why if at least 70% of Americans still consider themselves "Christian" there would there be a dearth of religious themed cards in stores around the country? It should not matter where you live, it is CHRISTMAS, not "the winter holiday."

Now when I complained at each of the Hallmark stores I was told to call the company, because the COMPANY tells the stores what cards to display. I was not the only person who had asked either, as others had while I was present at those and other stores. There is a demand, but for some reason the companies have chosen to downplay the religious in favor of the secular cards.

I personally think the OP just wanted to rant, and really didn't look very hard for religious cards. There's never been a shortage of them.

Yes, I did want to rant...but NO, I did look "really hard" for them in stores all over the area. As I had been in years prior. Fewer and fewer were on display each year.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Is it that the store you went to in hopes of buying Christmas cards with a religious theme didn't have a large enough selection? Well I don't know what types of stores they have around you but try a hallmark and or Walmart, they have the section you want, heck even the local food markets in my area have the section you seek. If that doesnt work for you order them on line LMAO :shrug:

Seems you probably really didnt look to hard and you want to make up a strawman rant but didnt pause to think if it actually made sense. Where did you go shopping for cards at? the local quickie mart gas station?

Gee, you didn't bother to READ the OP before replying did you. What part of "Hallmark" and "Other stores" did you miss in the OP for you to provide your "suggestions?"

What part of "I don't shop online" did you miss in a subsequent reply? Probably because you respond without reading it seems. Here, let me provide you with that second post. It was on the first page, post #9:

Not really. First I am sure I could probably find things on the internet for sale. I don't SHOP on the internet because:....

You're welcome. :roll:

 

[Captain Adverse]

Likely because even with "Christians" (and there a likely a fair number of that 71% who identify as christians are far from fervent devout members of the faith), the secular aspects of Christmas, or the more secular bent of some of the religious aspects, are what many people focus on FAR more than the religious aspects.

I agree, it's part of my concern.

People seem more concerned with buying presents, having a day off, and getting presents from other people. How many lights and decorations, and how to decorate the tree. More "Santa" than Christ. It has become so commercialized it's like an extended version of "Black Friday."

I don't mind that in and of itself, people have a right to their own views. It just irks me personally that within that commercialism there is no space for religious themed items like there used to be.

 

[maquiscat]

I asked in my OP, why if at least 70% of Americans still consider themselves "Christian" there would there be a dearth of religious themed cards in stores around the country? It should not matter where you live, it is CHRISTMAS, not "the winter holiday."

You mistake your desire for "Christmas" specific cards as being all Christians. Quite frankly, many, if not most, Christians are more worried about actually living their lives properly than they are about whether they say "Happy Holidays" or " Merry Christmas". That depth of worrying takes more away from a Christ based life than contributes to it. Mind you I am not including holiday Christians, or those who claim the religion because they thought no they're supposed to.

All that aside, it is also Chaunaka and Yule not to mention all the others. By one site I found there are at least 14 holidays in December alone; 3 Christian, 3 Muslim, 2 Pagan, 1 Jewish, and 5 others that are country or culture specific. Now I don't know about you, but as a businessman I certainly would want to get as much of that other 30% into my stores, and as long as the amount I get in is less that what I lose by not saying/carrying Christmas specific cards, then I have succeeded.

Now when I complained at each of the Hallmark stores I was told to call the company, because the COMPANY tells the stores what cards to display. I was not the only person who had asked either, as others had while I was present at those and other stores. There is a demand, but for some reason the companies have chosen to downplay the religious in favor of the secular cards.

What you see locally may not reflect the overall feelings of the population that the company serves. Believe me if the company was losing more sales by not carrying these cards than when they did, they would quickly go back to carrying them. Now I will say that many companies that are nationwide or international are probably losing money by not catering to specific areas, such as one where more people than average want Christmas specific cards. But they can't really see it because they are looking at overall data.

 

[countryboy]

Both Christmas and Yule, thank you. Merry Christmas to you.

There are many secular aspects that many Christians engage in. Simply because you do or do not do certain things, it has no impact on whether other Christians do so. Santa has nothing to do with the the religious aspect of Christmas, yet many Christians, take their kids to see Santa, tell stories of him and his reindeer and man other things that have nothing to do with Christ and his birth. What does singing about Frosty the Snowman have to do with Christ? Reality is that many Christians, to one degree or another, celebrates secular aspects of Christmas as well as the religious aspects.

At this point I can only conclude you are displaying willful ignorance, or wishful thinking.

Never heard about the legend of St. Nicholas?

 

[countryboy]

Personal observations over the last 40 years. I've lived in 15 states and visited several others in my lifetime, and recall when I could go into a card store and find non-religious cards for my secular friends, and religious cards for my religious friends. Starting about 20 years ago I began to see fewer and fewer options and more and more "Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings."

I asked in my OP, why if at least 70% of Americans still consider themselves "Christian" there would there be a dearth of religious themed cards in stores around the country? It should not matter where you live, it is CHRISTMAS, not "the winter holiday."

Now when I complained at each of the Hallmark stores I was told to call the company, because the COMPANY tells the stores what cards to display. I was not the only person who had asked either, as others had while I was present at those and other stores. There is a demand, but for some reason the companies have chosen to downplay the religious in favor of the secular cards.



Yes, I did want to rant...but NO, I did look "really hard" for them in stores all over the area. As I had been in years prior. Fewer and fewer were on display each year.

What part of the country do you live?

 

[maquiscat]

At this point I can only conclude you are displaying willful ignorance, or wishful thinking.

Never heard about the legend of St. Nicholas?

Comparing the modern day Santa to the original St. Nicholas is like comparing the original unicorn, a single horn goat, to the mythical equine of today's legends and myths. They are no longer remotely the same creature. I do not dismiss their religious origins, Christmas or Santa. But today's modern secular Christmas has evolved to be separate to the religious holiday. And Santa is no where near where St Nicholas was.

 

[countryboy]

Comparing the modern day Santa to the original St. Nicholas is like comparing the original unicorn, a single horn goat, to the mythical equine of today's legends and myths. They are no longer remotely the same creature. I do not dismiss their religious origins, Christmas or Santa. But today's modern secular Christmas has evolved to be separate to the religious holiday. And Santa is no where near where St Nicholas was.

Again, its all about the meaning one pours into it. I don't think you want to believe people actually celebrate the birth of Jesus. :shrug:

 

[maquiscat]

Again, its all about the meaning one pours into it. I don't think you want to believe people actually celebrate the birth of Jesus. :shrug:

I never said that! ROFLMFAO!!! I only noted that there are many people who celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday and not a religious one, and that many of the secular aspects that have developed and grown over the years are also observed by many Christians. Some Christians celebrate the religious aspects exclusively, like many Jehovah's Witnesses. Others celebrate a mix along a whole range of mix. And then there are those who call themselves Christian, and are part of that 70% you mentioned, but never really think about the religious aspect of the holiday. And then there are those who celebrate other religious winter holidays other than Christmas, some of those holidays having started before Christmas ever was. And some of those people celebrate their religious holiday and then also Christmas as a secular holiday.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)Gee, you didn't bother to READ the OP before replying did you. What part of "Hallmark" and "Other stores" did you miss in the OP for you to provide your "suggestions?"
2.)What part of "I don't shop online" did you miss in a subsequent reply? Probably because you respond without reading it seems. Here, let me provide you with that second post. It was on the first page, post #9:
3.)You're welcome. :roll:

1.) wrong and your mistake, I guess you didnt read when I said MY area and told you to try more stores lol
2.) again thats YOUR issue, YOU have a problem that is slef made I gave you solutions, if you dont want to solve your own problems that is up to you.
3.) yes you're welcome AGAIN. if you dont like the simply, reality based solutions and want to invent problems and give yourself illogical stress please proceed to do so, the rest of us will just continue to laugh since we see its a problem of your own invention and certainly not worthy of stress/anger LMAO.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The true meaning of Christmas is to sell as much merchandise as possible. Now, if Christmas cards with a religious theme were selling, the makers of Christmas cards would print more of them. So, if people aren't busily selling cards with Baby Jesus on them, it means that the market of such cards is limited.

Follow the money. That's the real object of worship.

Oh, and has anyone yet pointed out that "holidays" means "holy days"?

Yes, literally. The reason we say "holidays" is that so many religions consider the Christmas season "holy days."

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Have you checked with the members of your church. I get all my religious cards from a family member at my church who sells them. They actually come to my house with a wonderful sample of cards for the particular occasion. All proceeds go to charity and the people selling them make a little as well. I am lucky that the person I get them from is a family family member who is mentally slow but still independent thanks to the good people of the church. She could easily get disability but is proud of her independence. She sings plays the piano every Sunday as well as volunteers most of her free time at Church functions as well as works a full time job. I am sure if you were to ask around and look into it you could find someone in your parish that sells them as well.

I have a list of family members I buy cards for every year. I buy my Christmas, Easter, and birthday from the comfort of my kitchen table over lunch. I stock up on other cards such as get well, and sympathy. Plus it is nice to know the proceeds go to help people.

I haven't shopped for a card in the local stores in years. I agree with you it is nice to pick a card that suites the people you are buying them for.

Good Luck.

 

[maquiscat]

Oh, and has anyone yet pointed out that "holidays" means "holy days"?

Yes, literally. The reason we say "holidays" is that so many religions consider the Christmas season "holy days."

Etymology dude. Yes that is the origin of the word, but like all words and languages, that is no longer what it means. Holy days are, for the most part, still covered, although not always as much in the popular culture. When many in Europe go away on vacation, they go on holiday. It is not always during actual holidays. Words have multiple meanings. Learn them.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Etymology dude. Yes that is the origin of the word, but like all words and languages, that is no longer what it means. Holy days are, for the most part, still covered, although not always as much in the popular culture. When many in Europe go away on vacation, they go on holiday. It is not always during actual holidays. Words have multiple meanings. Learn them.

That is the origin of the word. So, when you wish someone happy holidays, you're wishing them happy holy days.

 

[Zyphlin]

I agree, it's part of my concern.

People seem more concerned with buying presents, having a day off, and getting presents from other people. How many lights and decorations, and how to decorate the tree. More "Santa" than Christ. It has become so commercialized it's like an extended version of "Black Friday."

I don't mind that in and of itself, people have a right to their own views. It just irks me personally that within that commercialism there is no space for religious themed items like there used to be.

Is there no "space" for it, or is it just not a profitable use of space? It's funny (not necessarily in your case, but in a general notion) that so often those lamenting the "commercialism" and the lack of "religious" stuff around the holidays are often the same people who scream "CAPITALISM" and "Free Speech" and other such things. Welcome to a capitalist society. The non-religious aspects of christmas are more widely popular and reach a larger portion of the population than the religious ones, and as such businesses are seeking to maximize their profitability and their target audience by pandering to that reality.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

I just got back from shopping for Christmas cards and I am about as frustrated as I can be. For the last month I have been going round and round to try to find religious themed cards for this holiday. Today I found exactly THREE religious themed cards in each of two Hallmark stores (and two or less in all the other stores I checked) in aisles specifically dedicated to Christmas cards.

Unlike many I don't buy a box of cards and send everyone I know the same card. I personally consider that a lazy way to let friends and loved ones know you are thinking of them during the Christmas season.

Instead, I go out shopping for a special card for each person that I hope reflects my feelings and my knowledge of their interests and/or beliefs.

But it has become harder and harder to do in this web-connected society as people are sending more things electronically, and fewer by snail mail.

Still, when I go out to stores specializing in gifts and greeting cards I expect them to stock the appropriate products, in this case RELIGIOUS THEMED CHRISTMAS CARDS!!!

Everywhere I go I find cards saying "Happy Holidays," or "Seasons Greetings," turning what is supposed to be the celebration of the birth of an important religious figure into a secular holiday. Is it THAT socially unacceptable to recognize that the holiday is a Religious holiday, and accept the religious theme without rancor or offense?

Now as of the most recent Gallup Poll in 2012 77% of Americans identify themselves as Christian, while a PEW report in 2015 indicates it is 71%.

In U.S., 77% Identify as Christian

America?s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center

So someone please explain WHY, when the majority of Americans consider themselves Christian, one cannot find cards celebrating the birth of Christ to send to their friends and family?

I'm genuinely asking: Have you considered hitting up a religious store? Or a Hallmark or something? I know that Hallmark does have religious Christmas cards and whatnot.

I think it's really cool that you get an individual card for each person. I do that a lot myself.

 

[Zyphlin]

I'm genuinely asking: Have you considered hitting up a religious store? Or a Hallmark or something? I know that Hallmark does have religious Christmas cards and whatnot.

I think it's really cool that you get an individual card for each person. I do that a lot myself.

From his OP

Today I found exactly THREE religious themed cards in each of two Hallmark stores (and two or less in all the other stores I checked) in aisles specifically dedicated to Christmas cards.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

From his OP

Ah, I misread. My bad.