The Great Experiment is now doomed

[eohrnberger]

It's all about the FBI now. If they decide there's nothing there then none of the Repubs' attacks will count for anything. If FBI has evidence of one or more felonies then she's done. If FBI only finds misdemeanors then she's damaged but could continue.

True, she could continue her POTUS run.

However, should she have felonious activities that the FBI has uncovered, it may be the case that Obama's overly politicized DOJ squash any charges, in which case, I'd expect the FBI to leak out the results of their investigation, she would then be done. Whether charges ensue, or the FBI is squashed and they leak, it depends on whether those charges or those leaks come out before the election or not. She may still be done.

Ball most definitely is in the FBI's and DOJ's court at this stage.

 

[Jack Hays]

True, she could continue her POTUS run.

However, should she have felonious activities that the FBI has uncovered, it may be the case that Obama's overly politicized DOJ squash any charges, in which case, I'd expect the FBI to leak out the results of their investigation, she would then be done. Whether charges ensue, or the FBI is squashed and they leak, it depends on whether those charges or those leaks come out before the election or not. She may still be done.

Ball most definitely is in the FBI's and DOJ's court at this stage.

The special agents in the FBI's National Security Division were already frustrated by the outcome of the Petraeus case; they thought he should have gotten jail time. If they provide evidence for felony indictments and DoJ declines to indict then I would indeed expect the FBI to leak in great volume.

 

[Fearandloathing]

If this country is screwed up, countryboy...it has more to do with what the conservatives are doing to it...than anything I am doing.

That's why the nation is STILL arguing about the same issues as when I lived there in the 60's. You have been conditioned into tribalism, bought the farm on which side you support and blame everything on the "other guys".

One read of a book called "The Prince" by this Italian guy named Machiavelli and your eyes will open and see where the problem really is. In this book he describes the complexities of keeping the populace distracted, in fear, and divided to enable princes and kings to do whatever they liked.

So long as you're pointing the finger of blame, and vote based on that, you will never solve the nation's problems. I mean it's been 50 years and nothing has changed. And nothing will so long as you are in a hate war with each other.

 

[Jack Hays]

That's why the nation is STILL arguing about the same issues as when I lived there in the 60's. You have been conditioned into tribalism, bought the farm on which side you support and blame everything on the "other guys".

One read of a book called "The Prince" by this Italian guy named Machiavelli and your eyes will open and see where the problem really is. In this book he describes the complexities of keeping the populace distracted, in fear, and divided to enable princes and kings to do whatever they liked.

So long as you're pointing the finger of blame, and vote based on that, you will never solve the nation's problems. I mean it's been 50 years and nothing has changed. And nothing will so long as you are in a hate war with each other.

All human societies are tribal and always have been, including Machiavelli's.

 

[Fearandloathing]

All human societies are tribal and always have been, including Machiavelli's.

you actually triggered my reply response for that?

 

[Jack Hays]

you actually triggered my reply response for that?

Yes, because tribalism is not the problem; it's a condition of existence.

 

[Frank Apisa]

That's why the nation is STILL arguing about the same issues as when I lived there in the 60's. You have been conditioned into tribalism, bought the farm on which side you support and blame everything on the "other guys".

One read of a book called "The Prince" by this Italian guy named Machiavelli and your eyes will open and see where the problem really is. In this book he describes the complexities of keeping the populace distracted, in fear, and divided to enable princes and kings to do whatever they liked.

So long as you're pointing the finger of blame, and vote based on that, you will never solve the nation's problems. I mean it's been 50 years and nothing has changed. And nothing will so long as you are in a hate war with each other.

Unfortunately, at this time...hatred between the sides is rampant.

If you are above that kind of thing...I salute you.

I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. If you folk in Canada are doing things better than we...fine.

 

[Vern]

Democrat machine want Hillary (or at least support her - have a feeling she's got dirt on everyone of them to 'motivate' them) - just look at the super delegate numbers and how early they were all delivered to her, and then look at the popular primary voting, and how strong an extremist left Saunders has garnered very closely the same popular vote.

Eohrn, see how effortlessly you create a narrative out of thin air. Whenever you need a magic fact, one never fails to appear. And look, Bernie's an extremist leftist too. All liberals are extremist leftists to you Eorhn. Again, your premise is "bernie's strong showing shows democrats are as dissatisfied as repubicans". the middle of the road "machine" candidate is going to win the nomination. Republicans are nominating a charlatan. And they're doing that because conservatives are angry at the establishment because they were promised America would fail and it didn't.

And eorhn, you are right about one thing, charlatans don't usually make it this far. But he's only fooling conservatives. So don't use his "success" to retro justify he may not be a charlatan. PT Barnum said it best 'The public appears disposed to be amused even when they are conscious of being deceived". he was talking about you and yours.

No, not going to follow your obvious diversion to a postings in another thread.

ooooo eorhn, I'm not asking you to reply to the other post in lieu of this discussion. Unless being in two discussions exceeds your 'capabilities' why would you assume that? I want you to go back to the other thread and explain what you posted. You seem to cut and run when asked to back up your "points".

 

[eohrnberger]

Eohrn, see how effortlessly you create a narrative out of thin air. Whenever you need a magic fact, one never fails to appear. And look, Bernie's an extremist leftist too. All liberals are extremist leftists to you Eorhn. Again, your premise is "bernie's strong showing shows democrats are as dissatisfied as repubicans". the middle of the road "machine" candidate is going to win the nomination. Republicans are nominating a charlatan. And they're doing that because conservatives are angry at the establishment because they were promised America would fail and it didn't.

And eorhn, you are right about one thing, charlatans don't usually make it this far. But he's only fooling conservatives. So don't use his "success" to retro justify he may not be a charlatan. PT Barnum said it best 'The public appears disposed to be amused even when they are conscious of being deceived". he was talking about you and yours.


ooooo eorhn, I'm not asking you to reply to the other post in lieu of this discussion. Unless being in two discussions exceeds your 'capabilities' why would you assume that? I want you to go back to the other thread and explain what you posted. You seem to cut and run when asked to back up your "points".

Vern, you are by far the most dishonest debater here.

There is no 'out of thin air here' (except maybe your posts), as if you cared to note, the Dem establishment has made their wishes known by the super delegate count, which I pointed out.

My capabilities for honest discussion are fine. Yours? Not so much.

Assigning me the position of defending Trump is interesting. Seems you can't manage to support a discussion / attacks on your own but have to pigeon hole everyone into a position they've not taken that you can attack.

AFAIK I've made no comment as to Trump being a charlatan or not, only to say that he's met the challenges that were before him, and that he has some sort challenges before him, which is factual and beyond dispute.

At this point, I think it fair that you shouldn't expect any further responses from me as you've been little more than the greatest disappointment of a discussion partner here.

Goodbye Vern.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Unfortunately, at this time...hatred between the sides is rampant.

If you are above that kind of thing...I salute you.

I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. If you folk in Canada are doing things better than we...fine.

Yep, part of the problem. American conservatism isn't destroying anything, the on going cold war is

 

[Vern]

There is no 'out of thin air here' (except maybe your posts), as if you cared to note, the Dem establishment has made their wishes known by the super delegate count, which I pointed out.

Here’s your magic fact.

have a feeling she's got dirt on everyone of them to 'motivate' them) - .

So Eorhn, you not only pulled that out of thin air, you also pretended not know I was referring to it. Of course it was easier for you to pretend I was talking about super delegates. It’s just like the time you pulled “Bush was president in 2000” or “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages” out of thin air. If it helps your narrative, magic presto, it’s a fact.

AFAIK I've made no comment as to Trump being a charlatan or not, only to say that he's met the challenges that were before him, and that he has some sort challenges before him, which is factual and beyond dispute.

Er uh eohrn, as far as you knew (AFAEK), Bush was president in 2000 and loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages so you should be the last person whose opinion you trust. Now here’s where you clearly stated that charlatans are not usually the “last one standing" as if to imply Trump is not a charlatan.

Charlatan? Meh. Trump was challenged by the field, and he's the last one standing. Charlatans tend not to be able to do that.

Eohrn, people who pretend not to understand other poster’s points and pretend not to know what they themselves have posted really shouldn’t call anyone dishonest. But that’s okay, it fits a pattern. and if your “good bye” means you’re cutting and running, could you cut and run back to the other thread where I asked you to explain your point but cut and ran instead?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Yep, part of the problem. American conservatism isn't destroying anything, the on going cold war is

I said, "I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. If you folk in Canada are doing things better than we...fine."

I DO abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. And if you Canadians are doing better than we, I am happy for you.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I said, "I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. If you folk in Canada are doing things better than we...fine."

I DO abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country. And if you Canadians are doing better than we, I am happy for you.

You don't see that you are being used as a pawn in an on going cold war. What are the great issues facing America? Illegal aliens, border security, deteriorating infrastrurture, the economy, voting rights & registrations.......

All of which where the great issues of the day when I lived there 50 years ago.

If a Republican offers a solution half the country automatically rejects it because its Republican. If a Democrat offers a solution the same thing, but then the country saw the ACA and.....

You blame "American Conservatism" for all the ills of the nation. So called American liberals are exempt from all criticism.....\


All of it wrong, stupid and counter productive. The enemy is not an ideology, nor a party. The enemy is your political system which has had you confused, ignorant and in the dark for five decades.

The Clintons have adequately demonstrated that they cannot be trusted. From blow jobs in the Oval office to dodging sniper fire, they are liars and schemers who are out for them and them alone. Yet, in the end Mrs. Clinton is all you have to prevent a Trump and another time when Americans have to hold their nose and vote for someone untrustworthy. Nothing changes and they keep you arguing with the "other guys", demonizing and baiting....and the plebians will join in the fray, hating their way to destruction.

 

[eohrnberger]

Here’s your magic fact.

So Eorhn, you not only pulled that out of thin air, you also pretended not know I was referring to it. Of course it was easier for you to pretend I was talking about super delegates. It’s just like the time you pulled “Bush was president in 2000” or “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages” out of thin air. If it helps your narrative, magic presto, it’s a fact.


Er uh eohrn, as far as you knew (AFAEK), Bush was president in 2000 and loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages so you should be the last person whose opinion you trust. Now here’s where you clearly stated that charlatans are not usually the “last one standing" as if to imply Trump is not a charlatan.


Eohrn, people who pretend not to understand other poster’s points and pretend not to know what they themselves have posted really shouldn’t call anyone dishonest. But that’s okay, it fits a pattern. and if your “good bye” means you’re cutting and running, could you cut and run back to the other thread where I asked you to explain your point but cut and ran instead?

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.

 

[Frank Apisa]

You don't see that you are being used as a pawn in an on going cold war. What are the great issues facing America? Illegal aliens, border security, deteriorating infrastrurture, the economy, voting rights & registrations.......

I am not being used as a pawn...and you should develop the self-respect necessary NOT to suggest such a thing.

All of which where the great issues of the day when I lived there 50 years ago.

We have lots of issues. All countries do.

If a Republican offers a solution half the country automatically rejects it because its Republican. If a Democrat offers a solution the same thing, but then the country saw the ACA and.....

I don't.

You blame "American Conservatism" for all the ills of the nation. So called American liberals are exempt from all criticism.....\

I DID NOT SAY I BLAME "AMERICAN CONSERVATISM" FOR ALL THE ILLS OF THE NATION.

I did say "I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country." And I most assuredly do.

All of it wrong, stupid and counter productive. The enemy is not an ideology, nor a party. The enemy is your political system which has had you confused, ignorant and in the dark for five decades.

Thank you for sharing your incredible and insightful mastery of the problems we Americans face...and for explaining to us what is our true enemy is.

Be careful you do not hurt your arm!

The Clintons have adequately demonstrated that they cannot be trusted.

The Clintons CAN BE TRUSTED as much as any politician now participating in the election process in this country. They ARE NO LESS TRUSTWORTHY than any other politician now engaged.

Despite people like you who want to think otherwise.

From blow jobs in the Oval office to dodging sniper fire, they are liars and schemers who are out for them and them alone. Yet, in the end Mrs. Clinton is all you have to prevent a Trump and another time when Americans have to hold their nose and vote for someone untrustworthy. Nothing changes and they keep you arguing with the "other guys", demonizing and baiting....and the plebians will join in the fray, hating their way to destruction.

Considering the tone of your posts...you ought really to think twice...or three times...perhaps four or five times...before giving advise on how to be politically reasonable.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I am not being used as a pawn...and you should develop the self-respect necessary NOT to suggest such a thing.



We have lots of issues. All countries do.



I don't.



I DID NOT SAY I BLAME "AMERICAN CONSERVATISM" FOR ALL THE ILLS OF THE NATION.

I did say "I abhor what American conservatism is trying to bring to our country." And I most assuredly do.



Thank you for sharing your incredible and insightful mastery of the problems we Americans face...and for explaining to us what is our true enemy is.

Be careful you do not hurt your arm!



The Clintons CAN BE TRUSTED as much as any politician now participating in the election process in this country. They ARE NO LESS TRUSTWORTHY than any other politician now engaged.

Despite people like you who want to think otherwise.




Considering the tone of your posts...you ought really to think twice...or three times...perhaps four or five times...before giving advise on how to be politically reasonable.

When you open with a personal insult, the rest becomes dirty bathwater. Insults demonstrate insecurity in argument, fear based like most political decisions made in the US. So we trash that part. You wasted your time. I have not insulted you.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with my self esteem. This month on the 16th I will celebrate 6 years without cigarettes, on the 21st I will celebrate 25 years without a drink. Later today I will sell my first painting, a hobby I took up three months ago.

I think the insecurities are yours, or else you wouldn't be throwing in insults./

You have a nice day.

We are done. goodbye

 

[Frank Apisa]

When you open with a personal insult, the rest becomes dirty bathwater.

You mean like YOUR opening of, "You don't see that you are being used as a pawn..."

Yeah, glad you saw it for what it was.

Insults demonstrate insecurity in argument, fear based like most political decisions made in the US. So we trash that part. You wasted your time. I have not insulted you.

Yeah, you have.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with my self esteem. This month on the 16th I will celebrate 6 years without cigarettes, on the 21st I will celebrate 25 years without a drink. Later today I will sell my first painting, a hobby I took up three months ago.

Great. Poor Vincent Van Gogh. He never sold a single painting. So you are going to beat him in the art department. And after only three months.

I think the insecurities are yours, or else you wouldn't be throwing in insults./

Well...at least mine are more out front than this one of yours.

You have a nice day.

We are done. goodbye

IF only I could count on it.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You mean like YOUR opening of, "You don't see that you are being used as a pawn..."

Yeah, glad you saw it for what it was.






Yeah, you have.



Great. Poor Vincent Van Gogh. He never sold a single painting. So you are going to beat him in the art department. And after only three months.



Well...at least mine are more out front than this one of yours.



IF only I could count on it.

Not one part of that deals with the topic. You just went 100% personal.

That's very immature. And if you think "you're being used as a pawn' is an insult you best grow some skin

 

[Frank Apisa]

Not one part of that deals with the topic. You just went 100% personal.

That's very immature. And if you think "you're being used as a pawn' is an insult you best grow some skin

It is so good to see you back so soon!

I don't think the "Great Experiment" that is the United States is doomed at all.

I think Red was angry with some dynamic changes that have occurred...and was blowing off steam.

The US will continue on the path it has been on since the days of the Revolution...and providing we protect ourselves from the assault by the far right...we will persevere.

Did I mention it is great to see you back so soon?

 

[Jack Hays]

The Great Experiment known as the United States of America and everything it was founded upon will soon come to an end. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has been redefined. Life, as precious as it is, is not valued at all in this country. Abortions are common place, the murder rate where freedoms are restricted is horrible, our police have become targets, our politicians lie to cover their own failures and our justice system is beyond repair at this point. Liberty, defined as freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control, has been slipping through our fingers for more than a century now (see 17th amendment). For years the federal government has gone to great lengths to hold a figurative gun to the state governments in such a way that can't be described as anything but bribery and extortion. Our federal government has now become more sinister and intrusive than the monarchies that our founders fought to escape from. The pursuit of happiness, the single most twisted and distorted of the three, is quite possibly the single biggest contributor to our downfall. It has been redefined, not for everyone to have the same opportunities, but more for everyone to have the same results regardless of the personal decisions people make in their lives. No longer are those who become successful and attain wealth through risk, hard work and determination looked up to, they are now scorned for being productive members of society (things like creating jobs, paying more than their fair share of taxes, etc...) and simply having too much "stuff". The pursuit of happiness now means free housing, free phones, free health care, free food and zero responsibility to provide for themselves and their families. . . .

In the words of the great Sergeant Hulka: "Lighten up, Francis." We'll be fine. We've survived worse and flourished afterward.

 

[Vern]

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.

"Wah wah you’re a liar”

Oh eohrn, that’s the oldest conservative dodge in the book. You posted something you made up out of thin air and I called you on it. this is a debate forum not a pre-teen conservative chat room. And eorhn you clearly were trying to imply that Trump may not be a charlatan because he’s the last man standing

Charlatan? Meh. Trump was challenged by the field, and he's the last one standing. Charlatans tend not to be able to do that.

After I tell you not to put too much into Trump being the last man standing because he only has to fool conservatives you post this

AFAIK I've made no comment as to Trump being a charlatan or not, only to say that he's met the challenges that were before him, and that he has
some sort challenges before him, which is factual and beyond dispute.

eohrn, I posted your quotes so I showed you that you should pump the brakes on calling anyone dishonest. So, are you not going back to the other thread to explain your point about GSEs getting off "scott free"?

 

[eohrnberger]

"Wah wah you’re a liar”

Oh eohrn, that’s the oldest conservative dodge in the book. You posted something you made up out of thin air and I called you on it. this is a debate forum not a pre-teen conservative chat room. And eorhn you clearly were trying to imply that Trump may not be a charlatan because he’s the last man standing


After I tell you not to put too much into Trump being the last man standing because he only has to fool conservatives you post this

eohrn, I posted your quotes so I showed you that you should pump the brakes on calling anyone dishonest. So, are you not going back to the other thread to explain your point about GSEs getting off "scott free"?

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.