The False Teachings Of The Jehovah's Witnesses

[devildavid]

God's Word does not lie...

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9

He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality," 1 Timothy 6:15,16

You didn’t quote god, you quoted Paul, a man.

 

[Daisy]

Jesus did not die later that very day. He died the day after.

Not by the old Jewish/Hebrew calendar...

The Hebrews began their day in the evening, after sunset, and ended it the next day at sunset. The day, therefore, ran from evening to evening. “From evening to evening you should observe your sabbath.” (Le 23:32)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001132

 

[devildavid]

lol...sure they are...the Bible does not lie...you OTH...constantly...

"For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." Romans 6:7

"For the wages sin pays is death" Romans 6:23

The Bible doesn’t do anything. It is a book to be read and interpreted. There is nothing straightforward in it.

 

[devildavid]

Not by the old Jewish/Hebrew calendar...

The Hebrews began their day in the evening, after sunset, and ended it the next day at sunset. The day, therefore, ran from evening to evening. “From evening to evening you should observe your sabbath.” (Le 23:32)

By any real calendar, not one made up by the JW’s beliefs.

 

[Daisy]

By any real calendar, not one made up by the JW’s beliefs.

Get back to me when you know what you're talkin' about...

 

[tosca1]

Daisy FINALLY agrees in another thread that the spirit doesn't die with the person................... but that the spirit returns to GOD.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that at death the person’s body returns to the dust, “and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.”
The person himself was never in heaven with God; what “returns” to God is therefore the vital force that enabled the person to live.

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

This verse portrays the Trinity ( GOD/Father, Jesus/Word/Son, Holy Spirit) 1 Thessalonians 1 The Thessalonians' Faith and Example 2 We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantly[a] mentioning you in our prayers, 3 remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Daisy]

Daisy FINALLY agrees in another thread that the spirit/life force doesn't die with the person................... but that the spirit/life force returns to GOD.

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

This verse portrays the Trinity ( GOD/Father, Jesus/Word/Son, Holy Spirit) 1 Thessalonians 1 The Thessalonians' Faith and Example 2 We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantly[a] mentioning you in our prayers, 3 remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor...

debatepolitics.com

There, fixed that for ya...stop lying...

 

[devildavid]

Get back to me when you know what you're talkin' about...

Backatcha…

 

[tosca1]

You didn’t quote god, you quoted Paul, a man.

Paul was GOD-inspired when He said that.
So yes, quoting what Paul said, is quoting GOD.

That's why it's surprising to see Daisy seemingly trying to diminish the authority of PAUL, in her quest to win her argument.
And yet - she's quoting him when convenient.


Post #735

The False Teachings Of The Jehovah's Witnesses

Yes, we are... I'm not. You got a scary pointy finger, daisy.

debatepolitics.com

To understand the authority of the apostles' teachings, we must understand who apostles were, the nature and purpose of their work, and how they became apostles. In particular, we must consider whether or not Paul possessed the qualifications and authority of an apostle equally with the other apostles.

Specifically, Paul was personally chosen and called by Jesus to be an apostle.​

Acts 9:15 - Jesus personally appeared to Paul (vv 1-9), then told Ananias to teach and baptize him because Paul was "a chosen vessel" to preach Jesus' name to Gentiles, etc.


Acts 26:16 - Jesus said that He had appeared to Paul to make him a minister and witness of what he had seen. [Acts 22:14,15]


Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:1 - So, Paul repeatedly affirmed in his letters that he had been "called to be an apostle," not by men, but by Jesus Christ.


[1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1]

Other inspired men confirmed Paul's claim to inspiration.​

Note that, if Paul's claim to be an apostle was not true, he would not even have been a faithful preacher. He would have been a false apostle, a false prophet, a liar, and a hypocrite. But Paul's claim to be inspired and a faithful teacher was confirmed by many other inspired men.




Acts 9:15 (26:16; 22:14,15) - Luke records that Jesus Himself endorsed Paul as a chosen vessel to preach His name.


2 Peter 3:15,16 - Peter classed Paul's writings along with other Scripture. This endorses Paul's writings as truth, including when those epistles claim that Paul was an apostle.


Galatians 2:7-9; Acts 15:22-32 - Other apostles and prophets confirmed Paul's claim to be inspired and to be a faithful preacher.


Acts 13:1-4 - Luke recorded that the Holy Spirit recognized Paul as one called by the Spirit to preach.


Revelation 2:2 - Jesus commended the church at Ephesus for examining and rejecting men who falsely claimed to be apostles. But Paul had done much preaching at Ephesus, and his letter to the Ephesians had claimed he was an apostle (Ephesians 1:1).


If Paul was not an apostle, the Ephesians surely ought to have rejected him; nor would Jesus have commended them if they had mistakenly accepted Paul as an apostle. So the fact Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles, even when they accepted Paul as an apostle, constitutes conclusive approval from Jesus Himself that Paul was an apostle!


So other inspired writers repeatedly endorse Paul's claim to be an apostle.

Authority of Apostle's Teaching, Especially Paul

gospelway.com

 

[tosca1]

You didn’t quote god, you quoted Paul, a man.

Continuation:

C. The Source of Paul's Teaching​

What about Paul? Did His teaching come from the same source as did the teaching of Jesus and other apostles?


1 Corinthians 2:10-13,16 - The Holy Spirit revealed the things of God to Paul, so He taught in words the Spirit gave Him, just like the other apostles did. As a result, he knew the mind of Christ. [2:1-5]


1 Corinthians 14:37 - What Paul taught, therefore, were the commands of the Lord.


1 Thessalonians 2:13 - The teaching people received from Paul was, in truth, the Word of God, not the word of men.


2 Peter 3:15,16 - The apostle Peter classified Paul's epistles as "Scripture," right along with "other scripture."
But "Scripture" is inspired by God and provides to all good works - 2 Timothy 3:16,17.
Hence, Peter here confirms Paul's claim to be an inspired author of God's word.


The teachings of Paul came from the same source as did those of Jesus and of the other apostles. Therefore, they were equally as authoritative.


[Galatians 1:11,12; Ephesians 3:3-5; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; Romans 1:15,16; 15:15-19; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Acts 13:12; 16:32; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Corinthians 5:20; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 5:27; 4:8]

Authority of Apostle's Teaching, Especially Paul

gospelway.com

 

[tosca1]

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God.
The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the “heavenly hope.” Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the “earthly hope”—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000.

It is true that there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ.
These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:2), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent, Daniel 7:27), and tribulation saints
(those who accept Christ during the tribulation, Revelation 20:4).
Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people.

Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will be established at the completion of the millennial period.
At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God, and we will be His people (Revelation 21:3).
The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13–14) will become ours, and we will be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

Who are the 144,000? | GotQuestions.org

Who are the 144,000? Is 144,000 a limit to the number of people God will allow into the New Heaven? Are the 144,000 (144.000) end times witnesses for Christ?

www.gotquestions.org

Who are the 144,000?

 

[Revelation]

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God.
The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the “heavenly hope.” Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the “earthly hope”—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000.

It is true that there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ.
These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:2), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent, Daniel 7:27), and tribulation saints
(those who accept Christ during the tribulation, Revelation 20:4).
Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people.

Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will be established at the completion of the millennial period.
At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God, and we will be His people (Revelation 21:3).
The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13–14) will become ours, and we will be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

Who are the 144,000? | GotQuestions.org

Who are the 144,000? Is 144,000 a limit to the number of people God will allow into the New Heaven? Are the 144,000 (144.000) end times witnesses for Christ?

www.gotquestions.org

Who are the 144,000?

thanks Tosca

the 144k has always been a strange spin the JW put on scripture.

the bible tells us 'study to show yourself approved unto God'

that means we have to do it ourselves, not depend on some Big Robe or denomination to do it.

did i mention 'ante-Nicene' writers? find out what was taught real early on AD 100, evaluate it and then discard 'innovations' and the Spin of the multitudes of theologians re-writing scripture.

blessings.

 

[Daisy]

the 144k has always been a strange spin the JW put on scripture.

No spin to it...it's easy to understand, right from the Bible...read it...it makes sense...

in Chapter 7, the apostle John was given a vision where he saw Jesus as King in heaven with 144,000 other kings. Who are the 144,000? John explains that they “have [Jesus’] name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.” And he adds: “These are the ones who keep following the Lamb [that is, Jesus] no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind.” (Read Revelation 14:1, 4.) The 144,000 are faithful Christians whom God has chosen “to rule as kings over the earth” with Jesus. When they die, they are resurrected to life in heaven. (Revelation 5:10) Since the time of the apostles, Jehovah has been choosing faithful Christians to be part of that group of 144,000 kings.

Jehovah cares for us so much that he has arranged for humans to rule with Jesus. Jesus will be a good ruler because he understands us. He knows what it’s like to be a human and to suffer. Paul said that Jesus feels for us, he can “sympathize with our weaknesses,” and he “has been tested in all respects as we have.” (Hebrews 4:15; 5:8) The 144,000 also know what it’s like to be human. And they have struggled with imperfection and sickness. So we can be sure that Jesus and the 144,000 will understand not only how we feel but also the problems we have to deal with.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102015148?q=who+are+the+144,000&p=sen

 

[Logician Man]

< Jehovah cares for us so much that he has arranged for humans to rule with Jesus. Jesus will be a good ruler because he understands us. He knows what it’s like to be a human and to suffer. >

Please tell us, Daisy. - Does 'Almighty (omniscient/all-knowing) God Jehovah' also "know what it's like to be a human and suffer" like Jesus "knows what it is like to suffer as a human"? - TIA -

 

[Daisy]

Please tell us, Daisy. - Does 'Almighty (omniscient/all-knowing) God Jehovah' also "know what it's like to be a human and suffer" like Jesus "knows what it is like to suffer as a human"? - TIA -

"For he well knows how we are formed,
Remembering that we are dust." Psalm 103:14

 

[Logician Man]

"For he well knows how we are formed,
Remembering that we are dust." Psalm 103:14

Has "he" ( Almighty God Jehovah ) ever experienced/felt/endured 'human pain and suffering' in the same manner that he had His Son, Jesus Christ, feel 'human pain and suffering'?

 

[tosca1]

@Overitall

I don't think I'll ever get why other Christians can't accept JW.

See the title?
I think it best to bring you to this thread.
Maybe it will help you to eventually get it.




The following are some of the many bad “translations” offered by the Watchtower Bible Tract Society’s translation of the Bible known as the New World Translation (NWT).
Because the Jehovah’s Witness organization denies the deity of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they have altered the text of God’s word to reflect their presuppositions.

Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness' Bible, the New World Translation (NWT) | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.

carm.org

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you love God and are doing your best (through the Bible of your choice) to learn how to worship Him.

Talking about Daisy as a person, isn't comparable to talking about Jehovah's Witnesses.


I have no doubt too that she loves GOD and doing her best to spread the gospel.
Unfortunately.....................................Daisy is a victim of a cult.

Hence, she does not rely on any sources other than what is JW's propaganda.
Her predicament is that...................she is "trapped!"


BUT, most unfortunately heartbreaking..........................................I can understand why Daisy will only dig in all the more with her JW doctrine.
She thinks and she genuinely believes that she's fighting for the TRUTH.



We can only try in this forum to challenge her JW beliefs, and, to coax her out of it, so she can do her own research outside of JW.

When dealing with Daisy, tough love - and prayers for her - is being applied in a bid to help her (and others, who might end up victims of her preaching).

 

[Overitall]

1. There is no Triune God (God, His Word, His Spirit). God is not Jesus Christ in human form.
   

There is a topic solely devoted to numerous verses, and logical explanations about what we call the Trinity, and verses that state Jesus (The Word), and God are One and the Same.

The latest recap of evidences are listed on posts # 257 and 258.

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

And Jesus explains exactly the meaning of his words in the previous verses...they are unified in protecting their sheep and leading them to everlasting life... https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwtsty/43/10#s=30&study=discover Ezekiel 34 31 You are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, and I...

debatepolitics.com

As of this writing, JW apologists have yet to answer this question:

Who is our groom? God, or Christ?

The question is based on these verses:


Isaiah 54
“For your husband is your Maker,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
Who is called the God of all the earth.


Hosea 2
16 “In that day,” declares the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’;
you will no longer call me ‘my master.

19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.



2 Corinthians 11
11 I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me!
2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin
to him.
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one
you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.



Either Jesus is God......or, JW suggests the New Testament is not reliable.

There's another option. Your understanding of the scriptures is unreliable. That might be one you're afraid to consider and acknowledge.

An unreliable New Testament means the whole idea of Jesus Christ – and salvation, and everything promised in the NT - are thrown down the toilet.

 

[Overitall]

@Overitall




See the title?
I think it best to bring you to this thread.
Maybe it will help you to eventually get it.




The following are some of the many bad “translations” offered by the Watchtower Bible Tract Society’s translation of the Bible known as the New World Translation (NWT).
Because the Jehovah’s Witness organization denies the deity of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they have altered the text of God’s word to reflect their presuppositions.

Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness' Bible, the New World Translation (NWT) | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.

carm.org

Talking about Daisy as a person, isn't comparable to talking about Jehovah's Witnesses.


I have no doubt too that she loves GOD and doing her best to spread the gospel.
Unfortunately.....................................Daisy is a victim of a cult.

Hence, she does not rely on any sources other than what is JW's propaganda.
Her predicament is that...................she is "trapped!"


BUT, most unfortunately heartbreaking..........................................I can understand why Daisy will only dig in all the more with her JW doctrine.
She thinks and she genuinely believes that she's fighting for the TRUTH.



We can only try in this forum to challenge her JW beliefs, and, to coax her out of it, so she can do her own research outside of JW.

When dealing with Daisy, tough love - and prayers for her - is being applied in a bid to help her (and others, who might end up victims of her preaching).

This thread isn't about @Daisy . Why go there (especially since you complained about yourself being attacked personally)?

You've concluded that the JW is a cult based upon the fact they don't accept the doctrine of the Trinity. You refuse to acknowledge that perhaps you're wrong. Prove me wrong in my observation by clearly (without your habitual penchant to obfuscation) answering yes or no to this question.

Can you be wrong about God being Jesus in the flesh?

 

[tosca1]

There's another option. Your understanding of the scriptures is unreliable. That might be one you're afraid to consider and acknowledge.

Oh lol.........coming from someone who believes................................. there are many paths to God.........hahahaha -

I’m of the opinion that whatever version builds a relationship with God is the one you should go with. We aren’t supposed to worship the Bible; we are to worship God.

Post #57

Clearing Up The Christian Confusions About Our Doctrine

Read the OP. Mind you.........it might just well all by me - unless someone wants to pitch in - no problemo. I had no problem with ANSWERS TO ATHEIST NONSENSE, have I? That's similar concept with this. If I find an issue somewhere, it can get expanded on this thread. You need to lighten up.

debatepolitics.com

You didn't understand Jesus when He said:



John 14
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[tosca1]

This thread isn't about @Daisy . Why go there (especially since you complained about yourself being attacked personally)?

You've concluded that the JW is a cult based upon the fact they don't accept the doctrine of the Trinity. You refuse to acknowledge that perhaps you're wrong. Prove me wrong in my observation by clearly (without your habitual penchant to obfuscation) answering yes or no to this question.

Can you be wrong about God being Jesus in the flesh?

You brought her into this with your own post..........................................except that since you're talking about JW - you should've posted it here, where it's more appropriate.

I took you here (since it is the answer to your question), and responded to your comparison.

I'm simply pointing out your faulty comparison between her as a person, and JW the organization.



The thread speaks for itself.


Mind you.............


You didn't understand Jesus when He said:



John 14
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.





You're on your own.
I don't have time to spoon feed you.

 

[Overitall]

<snip>

You're on your own.
I don't have time to spoon feed you.

Could you be any more condescending?

Run away and place me on your ignore list.

 

[Overitall]

Oh lol.........coming from someone who believes................................. there are many paths to God.........hahahaha -






Post #57

Clearing Up The Christian Confusions About Our Doctrine

Read the OP. Mind you.........it might just well all by me - unless someone wants to pitch in - no problemo. I had no problem with ANSWERS TO ATHEIST NONSENSE, have I? That's similar concept with this. If I find an issue somewhere, it can get expanded on this thread. You need to lighten up.

debatepolitics.com

You didn't understand Jesus when He said:



John 14
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Again, you've managed to dodge a direct question. I'm seeing a dishonest approach in your posts. Ignore those questions which reveal how wrong and naive you are in your understanding of what the Word of God says.

 

[Revelation]

You brought her into this with your own post..........................................except that since you're talking about JW - you should've posted it here, where it's more appropriate.

I took you here (since it is the answer to your question), and responded to your comparison.

I'm simply pointing out your faulty comparison between her as a person, and JW the organization.

,,

You didn't understand Jesus when He said:
John 14
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Tosca, your excellence in defending the Deity of the Lord Jesus is unmatched by anyone here.

Nipper linked to an excellent article on this that clear up the whole issue, if anyone cares to know...

Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim Jesus is the archangel Michael, but what does the Bible say?

www.str.org

i read the whole thing, very interesting. here is a sample....

Prince of Peace. (Isa. 9:6)

Notice the prophet Isaiah calls the child the “prince of peace.” Therefore, Jack argued, since Michael is the great prince of God’s people, and Jesus is called the prince of peace, Michael must be Jesus.

He jumped to a couple of other verses, but let’s stop right there. If you’re an astute reader, you can probably identify a number of errors already.

First, Daniel 10 and 12 make no explicit reference to Jesus. He’s just not there in the text. This has to be read into the text.

Second, Michael is not called the chief prince. He is called one of the chief princes. There is a group of chief princes, and Michael is one among that group. Conversely, Jesus is absolutely unique. He is not one among many; rather, He is one-of-a-kind. Jesus is the “King of kings and the Lord of lords” (Rev. 19:16), who created all the angelic host (Col. 1:16). He is God’s only Son (John 3:16).

Jack’s response was telling. He kept asserting that Michael is the chief prince. But that’s not what the text says. I pushed him to read the actual words of the text again. And it was as if he was so used to his interpretation of Dan. 10:13 that he didn’t realize what the text actually said.

In fact, he could barely read the words without immediately adding his own. “But Michael, one of the chief princes,” Jack began, but quickly added, “who is the foremost prince. Michael is the chief prince, who is one of the chief princes.”

 

[tosca1]

Could you be any more condescending?

Run away and place me on your ignore list.

Why would I want to put you on my ignore list.
Sometimes you say something rational and worth responding to.


Lately though, you seemed to have descended onto a dark path.
You say confusing things.......................and you project yourself to be confused.

Meh. Don't mind me.
I'm set and focused.


What I can do though is just ignore you until you've got something worth responding to.