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The Fallacy Of Biblical Stories, Part 1: The Great Flood & Noah's Ark (1 Viewer)

What do you not understand...Adam and Eve were not created as small children nor were they ignorant...the Bible does not tell us how many years had gone by between their creation and before they sinned...Jehovah gave Adam direct instructions to not eat of the fruit and then Adam passed on that info to Eve...
If they didn't have knowledge that the tree gave them, they could not know or understand they were being disobedient or doing something wrong. But again, this belongs in the A&E thread. Not here.
 
If they didn't have knowledge that the tree gave them, they could not know or understand they were being disobedient or doing something wrong. But again, this belongs in the A&E thread. Not here.
BS God gave them the knowledge they needed in order to live...
 
Evolutionists use the word "speculate".
Right, because it’s a word that means something. I’m just saying don’t pretend speculation about God is scientific.
And please, COVID hype and CLIMATE change are preying on grief and fear.
What is “Covid hype?” Covid’s a virus. Believe it killed quite a few people recently. Viruses don’t prey on fear. Viruses aren’t even aware their hosts fear them. Climate change also is not a conscious being, so climate change does not prey on anything.
And the entire transgender and homosexual agenda is one of indoctrination, extortion, and psychological abuse of the secular social kind...
Not sure what you’re talking about. Never heard of this “agenda” from anyone who is gay or transgendered. But I hear about the Christian agenda from Christians all the time, and they even point to some special sacred book they like to carry around that they say spells out the agenda. Pretty sure gays and transgendered don’t have a sacred book. If they do, please cite it, I’d be curious to see what that is.
Christianity is a personal relationship with the FATHER through CHRIST and not a "religious social club" nor a structure of must do this and must do that.
If it were merely as you say, it would not have lasted more than a couple generations.

But it’s not as you say. It grew and endured via indoctrination and coercion and all sorts of other cult norms. That’s no miracle.
 
@LittleNipper has posted numerous times that he knows “all of science” is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Christianity.
I have never stated that "all of science" is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Christianity. I do believe that evolutionists have conspired to eliminate Creationism and prevent it from being regarded as scientific research, and try to discredit/defame those who would engage in Creation research ------ that not the same thing.
 
Right, because it’s a word that means something. I’m just saying don’t pretend speculation about God is scientific.

What is “Covid hype?” Covid’s a virus. Believe it killed quite a few people recently. Viruses don’t prey on fear. Viruses aren’t even aware their hosts fear them. Climate change also is not a conscious being, so climate change does not prey on anything.

Not sure what you’re talking about. Never heard of this “agenda” from anyone who is gay or transgendered. But I hear about the Christian agenda from Christians all the time, and they even point to some special sacred book they like to carry around that they say spells out the agenda. Pretty sure gays and transgendered don’t have a sacred book. If they do, please cite it, I’d be curious to see what that is.

If it were merely as you say, it would not have lasted more than a couple generations.

But it’s not as you say. It grew and endured via indoctrination and coercion and all sorts of other cult norms. That’s no miracle.
The latest such claim: Cancer is far worse than COVID-19.

"600,000 Americans die each year from Cancer. That's 3x the Covid-19 death rate."

The transgender/gay agenda is to make their lifestyle choices and drives be regarded as coequal with biologically affirmed procreative sex, through reeducation and even legal coercion.

And the fact of spiritual regeneration among Christians is the thing that sets Christianity apart from pagan worship, winning over people who lived in constant fear and darkness with regards to dying, and their future eternal security stipulated by city/state god/goddess worship. Many even elevating their rulers to the level of a god (deified and worshipped),

It's not "science" that holds anything against anyone who regards that the Universe was created. It's a group of individuals who misapply "science" and promote their own views in every effort to disregard GOD as a valid consideration.
 
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I have never stated that "all of science" is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Christianity. I do believe that evolutionists have conspired to eliminate Creationism and prevent it from being regarded as scientific research, and try to discredit/defame those who would engage in Creation research ------ that not the same thing.
Creationism is not science. It has no evidence and therefore no credibility.
It's not "science" that holds anything against anyone who regards that the Universe was created. It's a group of individuals who misapply "science" and promote their own views in every effort to disregard GOD as a valid consideration.
Conspiracy theory nonsense. And off topic.
 
I have never stated that "all of science" is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Christianity. I do believe that evolutionists have conspired to eliminate Creationism and prevent it from being regarded as scientific research, and try to discredit/defame those who would engage in Creation research ------ that not the same thing.
Do I need to go farm some of your posts?

Tell us again, how old is the Earth and the Universe? Specifically in human years as we define them in 2024 please.

Roughly around 6000-7000 years? Or somewhere much closer to 14 billion years?
 
Do I need to go farm some of your posts?

Tell us again, how old is the Earth and the Universe? Specifically in human years as we define them in 2024 please.

Roughly around 6000-7000 years? Or somewhere much closer to 14 billion years?
Just because you believe the Universe is billions of years old because of circumstantial evidence, doesn't in anyway shape or form indicate that GOD didn't create an established ecological system capable of supporting life (as GOD desired it to exist) at some stage that would appear to nonbelievers as very ancient, but in fact isn't. And on top of that a massive FLOOD and its aftermath churned everything up so that fossils and the like have absorbed minerals that have obscured data because some individuals feel that this CREATION is but an accident of natural processes, and that is in their mind scientific and anything other is mysticism.

Roughly, how old did Adam appear when GOD created him from the dust, but how old was he really the day after GOD created him?
 
Just because you believe the Universe is billions of years old because of circumstantial evidence, doesn't in anyway shape or form indicate that GOD didn't create an established ecological system capable of supporting life (as GOD desired it to exist) at some stage that would appear to nonbelievers as very ancient, but in fact isn't. And on top of that a massive FLOOD and its aftermath churned everything up so that fossils and the like have absorbed minerals that have obscured data because some individuals feel that this CREATION is but an accident of natural processes, and that is in their mind scientific and anything other is mysticism.
There is objective empirical evidence to support the universe being billions of years old. There is none to support the existence of god or that said God did anything or any other biblical myth like the Flood. At best, all you have are 'what if' arguments.
 
Just because you believe the Universe is billions of years old because of circumstantial evidence, doesn't in anyway shape or form indicate that GOD didn't create an established ecological system capable of supporting life (as GOD desired it to exist) at some stage that would appear to nonbelievers as very ancient, but in fact isn't. And on top of that a massive FLOOD and its aftermath churned everything up so that fossils and the like have absorbed minerals that have obscured data because some individuals feel that this CREATION is but an accident of natural processes, and that is in their mind scientific and anything other is mysticism.

Roughly, how old did Adam appear when GOD created him from the dust, but how old was he really the day after GOD created him?
Thanks for proving you think ALL SCIENCE is a conspiracy.

In a few short sentences you've condemned every major branch of science there is as a lie.

Well done.
 
The latest such claim: Cancer is far worse than COVID-19.

"600,000 Americans die each year from Cancer. That's 3x the Covid-19 death rate."

The transgender/gay agenda is to make their lifestyle choices and drives be regarded as coequal with biologically affirmed procreative sex, through reeducation and even legal coercion.

And the fact of spiritual regeneration among Christians is the thing that sets Christianity apart from pagan worship, winning over people who lived in constant fear and darkness with regards to dying, and their future eternal security stipulated by city/state god/goddess worship. Many even elevating their rulers to the level of a god (deified and worshipped),

It's not "science" that holds anything against anyone who regards that the Universe was created. It's a group of individuals who misapply "science" and promote their own views in every effort to disregard GOD as a valid consideration.

What Cats GIF - What Cats Que GIFs
 
Just because you believe the Universe is billions of years old because of circumstantial evidence, doesn't in anyway shape or form indicate that GOD didn't create an established ecological system capable of supporting life (as GOD desired it to exist) at some stage that would appear to nonbelievers as very ancient, but in fact isn't. And on top of that a massive FLOOD and its aftermath churned everything up so that fossils and the like have absorbed minerals that have obscured data because some individuals feel that this CREATION is but an accident of natural processes, and that is in their mind scientific and anything other is mysticism.

Roughly, how old did Adam appear when GOD created him from the dust, but how old was he really the day after GOD created him?

dating methods have huge errors of many kinds and are inaccurate.

i don't concern myself with the age of the earth and believe that Adam was created about 6000 years ago. we don't limit God by evolutionary ideas, as evolution itself is a myth with no mechanisms to evolve organisms into something different.

you rarely find dating error issues discussed in science, but i may drop some of those on the forum as there is some literature on this topic.

if you are into the gap theory, the earth could easily be billions of years old before Adam and the 6 day creation. (the gap theory is plausible to me) the only reason someone would care as an unbeliever, is to accommodate the theory of evolution. for the christian this should be a non issue.
 
Thanks for proving you think ALL SCIENCE is a conspiracy.

In a few short sentences you've condemned every major branch of science there is as a lie.

Well done.
I didn't say that, and you know that is true. That would be like me saying that YOU said that there are no Christians who are scientists... I do not condemn archeology. I do not condemn medicine. I do not condemn research. What I condemn are organizations and groups who totally condemn all Creation research because Creationists feel that GOD is a key piece of data that must be considered in research.
 
What I condemn are organizations and groups who totally condemn all Creation research because Creationists feel that GOD is a key piece of data that must be considered in research.
When creation "research" provides some actual objective empirical evidence, then maybe it'll be taken seriously. Until then, it's not and can and should be summarily dismissed.
 
I didn't say that, and you know that is true. That would be like me saying that YOU said that there are no Christians who are scientists... I do not condemn archeology. I do not condemn medicine. I do not condemn research. What I condemn are organizations and groups who totally condemn all Creation research because Creationists feel that GOD is a key piece of data that must be considered in research.

God is not a key piece of data. Funny that a believer would lower god’s status like that.
 
dating methods have huge errors of many kinds and are inaccurate.

i don't concern myself with the age of the earth and believe that Adam was created about 6000 years ago. we don't limit God by evolutionary ideas, as evolution itself is a myth with no mechanisms to evolve organisms into something different.

you rarely find dating error issues discussed in science, but i may drop some of those on the forum as there is some literature on this topic.

if you are into the gap theory, the earth could easily be billions of years old before Adam and the 6 day creation. (the gap theory is plausible to me) the only reason someone would care as an unbeliever, is to accommodate the theory of evolution. for the christian this should be a non issue.

Religious beliefs have huge errors of many kinds and are inaccurate.
 
God is not a key piece of data. Funny that a believer would lower god’s status like that.
That is what YOU believe. That is what you've stated... NOW prove it! What would you know regarding GOD's standards?
 
"People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah's ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it's about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers." ---Neil deGrasse Tyson

This article is the first in a series of articles I plan to write (depending on my available time and interest) objectively examining popular biblical stories to establish their veracity or likelihood of having actually occurred. While many people might view the stories as fables and allegories, some do view them as actual, literal events that have occurred (Looking at you Ken Hamm, lol). These stories have significantly influenced people and societies throughout the centuries. So I will analyze the empirical evidence which either supports or refutes the stories as portrayed. For this Part 1, I will examine the biblical Great Flood and Noah's Ark mythos.

In a nutshell, the Great Flood/Noah's Ark goes like this: God was ticked off at humanity's shenanigans and decided the best way to deal with the situation was genocide via mass drowning (save for Noah & few of his followers, along with certain animals). So God instructed Noah to gather two of every animal and build a great ark to house them during the 40-day/night deluge that would flood the world and kill virtually every living thing on the planet. Afterwards, he would release the animals and themselves to repopulate their respective species.

This story has so many problems with it, it's difficult to know where to begin. To simplify, I will not be focusing on other cultures earlier flood myths, which probably influenced the creation of the biblical flood myth. Neither will I be focusing on God's own imperfection (or incompetence), as his Creation had some major design flaws forcing him to essentially reboot Creation over again. I also won't delve into the implausibility of rapid repopulation over a short time after the flood either. So here are some problems with the Flood story:

1. The sheer number of animals that had to be aboard the Ark : For this, I'm going to assume that the animals on the ark were all land animals. According to the California Academy of Sciences, there are approximately 6.5 million species of land animals. I'll be conservative and round down to 6 million, give or take a million. Since we have two of every animal, the ark must be capable of holding and supporting 12 MILLION animals for an extended duration, without additional support. That alone makes the Flood story quite implausible (even more so if one includes dinosaurs as passengers). Anyone who has been in a pet store will know housing many animals takes up quite a lot of space and resources. To put that into perspective, a single adult elephant (the largest land mammal in the world) can weigh upwards of 14,000 pounds, grow up to 35 feet long, and eat 200-600 pounds of food and drink 50 gallons of water PER DAY! And Noah had 12 million animals to feed and water daily, which is an impossible task for the relatively few people aboard the ark (never mind cleaning up after the animals too). In addition, it is supposed to believed that many of those animals traveled thousands of miles, some over the ocean, and from remote places like Antarctica, outside of their natural environments and ecosystems, in time to board the ark before the flood. Really?

Yeah....

I've been though this since I was a believer. The feed alone would require about 25 super tankers.

And, it is impossible to build a wooden boat longer than 100 meters. At that length, even the strongest of woods will twist or 'corkscrew' against its fastenings. Let's put it this way a 300 ft boat would make it from the mouth of the Thames to the mouth of the Thames.

And then there's the manure........

An average elephant produces over 400 lbs of shit per day!
 
Yeah....

I've been though this since I was a believer. The feed alone would require about 25 super tankers.

And, it is impossible to build a wooden boat longer than 100 meters. At that length, even the strongest of woods will twist or 'corkscrew' against its fastenings. Let's put it this way a 300 ft boat would make it from the mouth of the Thames to the mouth of the Thames.

And then there's the manure........

An average elephant produces over 400 lbs of shit per day!
There is hibernation and I know of no one who built a wooden vessel the size of Noah's Ark. And GOD apparently was the architect and even shut the door when the time was at hand...
 
There is hibernation
Not all mammals hibernate and hibernation is usually during cold winter months.
and I know of no one who built a wooden vessel the size of Noah's Ark.
No one ever built a wooden ship of that size.
And GOD apparently was the architect and even shut the door when the time was at hand...
Then why did god need Noah at all?
There have been beliefs of many kinds that have been inaccurate.
What makes your belief/bible any more accurate than another source?
The Bible isn't inaccurate, but it can be misunderstood.
How about that, this thread alone proves the bible is inaccurate.
That is what YOU believe. That is what you've stated... NOW prove it! What would you know regarding GOD's standards?
The better question is, what would YOU know?
 
That is what YOU believe. That is what you've stated... NOW prove it! What would you know regarding GOD's standards?

No, it is not about belief. Gods do not qualify as being categorized as data. They don’t don’t meet the criteria of data.
 
There is hibernation and I know of no one who built a wooden vessel the size of Noah's Ark. And GOD apparently was the architect and even shut the door when the time was at hand...

It is a religious mythologic tale meant to convey something about the relationship between god and its human creation. It did not literally happen and no one was meant to believe that it did by those who wrote the tale.
 

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