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The Face of Later Abortion

Why couldn't you just state her reason instead of typing all that out? All I said was I'd be interested in knowing her reason, if you weren't going to give that info, there was no point in responding.

The patient's statement isn't attached anywhere for anyone to read. Neither are the GAF, SIGECAPS and DTREE assessments. Dr. Gold's reason for finding fault is that the assessments were not enough information to determine the patient's diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder.
 
Don't waste your time.

I was going to say the same thing to nota. You can lead a horse to water, you can learn to speak horse, you can give the horse a straw and train it to use one, but it's always possible you'll run into a hydrophobic horse.

Its skin will probably be green, if that documentary about Oz was accurate.
 
I wouldn't have bothered if Scrabaholic hadn't specifically asked. But she did and then feigned that she didn't have time (what, 2 minutes?) to look. Those patient records--what the "single depressive episodes" were, how Nuehaus signed off (sometimes pre and sometimes post-dating docs), which is what enabled Tiller to perform the late-term abortions because she was the required second doctor--explain quite a bit.

They are revelatory, in fact. Unless, of course, your attitude is "Don't bother me with facts--my mind is made up." :lol:
 
Now, Minnie, share the other facts about Tiller and his late-term abortions. Tell everybody how many late-term abortions were performed because of alleged risk to the mother's mental health based on ONE alleged "depressive" episode.



Yes you posted a small handful of girls / women out of the 132 from all over the country had abortions because of mental illness.
I do not recall reading they were based on one alleged " depressive " episode.
I recall the term was Major Depressive Episode which is quite different than simple depression.
Mental illness is very real and pregnancy often worsens mental illness and let's be honest one the cases of Major Depressive Episode was a 10 year old pregnant girl. I cannot imagine all the abuse that poor girl went through ...no wonder she had a Major Depressive Episode.



Here is a copy of your post from the thread titled: Anyone else watching this?

Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
...

The grand jury refused to indict Dr. Tiller because at the time, Kansas law had a wiggle phrase about the mother's mental health. Its recommendation was that this wiggle phrase be taken out, and in 2010, it was.

Ultimately, Kline dropped 15 of the 30 charges, but here are a few examples with a link that identifies them all [all bolding mine]:

Count 1: Unlawful Late Term...14 year old pregnant child when the fetus was viable…26 week…wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Anxiety Disorder NOS or Adjustment Disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood.

Count 3: Unlawful Late Term Abortion 10 year old pregnant child when the fetus was viable...28 weeks...wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode...

Count 5: Unlawful Late Term Abortion...15 year old pregnant child when the fetus was viable... 28 weeks... wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode...

Count 7: Unlawful Late Term Abortion...16-year old pregnant child when the fetus was viable...29 weeks...wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode...

Count 9: Unlawful Late Term Abortion...19 year old pregnant woman when the fetus was viable...27 weeks, wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode...

Etc. Kansans For Life http://www.kfl.org/SiteResources/Da...Expert McHugh Backs up Charges Against Tiller

You seem to suggest that a 10 year old girl who has severe mental issues should be forced to give birth and that the diagnosis of Major Depressive Episode was just " wiggle room" to allow a legal term abortion.

From this artic;e:

"No 10-year-old anywhere in the world should be having a baby," Lewis Wall, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, told LiveScience.

According to Good Morning America, the 10-year-old girl, a member of the Wayuu tribe in Manaure, Colombia, delivered a 5-pound (2.26 kilogram) baby girl. The age of the father is not known, but Colombian police reportedly cannot press charges as the tribe is under its own jurisdiction.

The obvious risks of such an ordeal are mental, Wall said.

"Any 10-year-old who is pregnant has already been abused significantly by somebody," he said. "That probably should go without saying."

Nor are 10-, 11- and 12-year-olds remotely prepared to care for a baby, Wall said. But the risks are physical, as well.


"The placenta preferentially will take nutrition from the mother, who really is a child," said Sherry Thomas,
an ob/gyn at Mission Community Hospital in Panorama City, Calif.
That means that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should still be growing herself.
Likewise, pregnancy puts a major strain on the cardiovascular system, according to Wall.
Pregnant women have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their bodies compared with non-pregnant women.

The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor.
Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. (Some studies suggest that the average age of first menstruation is dropping, but the data is not conclusive.)
Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby.
The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.

The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors.
Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either....

Why 10-Year-Olds Shouldn't Give Birth | Pregnancy & Health | LiveScience
 
You seem to suggest that a 10 year old girl who has severe mental issues should be forced to give birth and that the diagnosis of Major Depressive Episode was just " wiggle room" to allow a legal term abortion.

I can't fathom the callousness required to dismiss a "Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode" as if it weren't a life-threatening event, and reason enough to question a 10 year olds ability to raise a child.
 
I can't fathom the callousness required to dismiss a "Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode" as if it weren't a life-threatening event, and reason enough to question a 10 year olds ability to raise a child.

Interestingly, this blog was posted in my FB feed today, it was written by an attorney that raises really good questions about personhood and the dangers of forcing doctors to justify which abortions are "allowable" versus those not. The central issue with this is allowing a certain group's morals determine the decisions of people they've never met, and how exactly do you decide without meeting a person, what reasons are "good enough."?
 
I wanted to thank SassySmartie for posting the link to my blog. I am the creator of the "1 in 10" blog, so I wanted to clear up some confusion surrounding the name of the blog. The blog is a collection of stories from women I have met online-- mostly in discussion forums, but also on Facebook. While lawmakers have been focusing on 20+ week abortions lately, those aren't the only heartbreaking terminations for medical reasons. Depending on the diagnosis (chromosomal, structural, hereditary, etc.), some women find out at or after 20 weeks, and some women find out much sooner (as early as 13 weeks).
The stories of the women who terminate for medical reasons BEFORE 20 weeks are equally as compelling as those who terminate after 20 weeks. I didn't think it would be right to create a blog ONLY for 20+ week abortion stories, as that would be excluding a good number of my online friends and their powerful personal testimonials.
So the blog is titled "1 in 10" because that is the percentage of abortions that occur after 12 weeks. Granted, not all (or even a majority) abortions after 12 weeks are for medical reasons. But that 10% is the bracket that we fall into. And since some state legislatures are hell-bent on banning abortion even earlier than 20 weeks (North Dakota, Ohio, etc.) I felt it was important that our stories of 12+ week abortions are told.
 
I wanted to thank SassySmartie for posting the link to my blog. I am the creator of the "1 in 10" blog, so I wanted to clear up some confusion surrounding the name of the blog. The blog is a collection of stories from women I have met online-- mostly in discussion forums, but also on Facebook. While lawmakers have been focusing on 20+ week abortions lately, those aren't the only heartbreaking terminations for medical reasons. Depending on the diagnosis (chromosomal, structural, hereditary, etc.), some women find out at or after 20 weeks, and some women find out much sooner (as early as 13 weeks).
The stories of the women who terminate for medical reasons BEFORE 20 weeks are equally as compelling as those who terminate after 20 weeks. I didn't think it would be right to create a blog ONLY for 20+ week abortion stories, as that would be excluding a good number of my online friends and their powerful personal testimonials.
So the blog is titled "1 in 10" because that is the percentage of abortions that occur after 12 weeks. Granted, not all (or even a majority) abortions after 12 weeks are for medical reasons. But that 10% is the bracket that we fall into. And since some state legislatures are hell-bent on banning abortion even earlier than 20 weeks (North Dakota, Ohio, etc.) I felt it was important that our stories of 12+ week abortions are told.

Thanks for stopping by to clarify and thank you for posting the stories, they are quite moving and I would hope, help people understand the complex decisions that women make.
 
I wouldn't have bothered if Scrabaholic hadn't specifically asked. But she did and then feigned that she didn't have time (what, 2 minutes?) to look. Those patient records--what the "single depressive episodes" were, how Nuehaus signed off (sometimes pre and sometimes post-dating docs), which is what enabled Tiller to perform the late-term abortions because she was the required second doctor--explain quite a bit.

They are revelatory, in fact. Unless, of course, your attitude is "Don't bother me with facts--my mind is made up." :lol:

I was wondering WHY SHE WAITED SO LONG IN GESTATION TO DECIDE TO ABORT. smh
 
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