The End Of The Free Syrian Army?

[TheDemSocialist]

The incident alarmed the U.S., which had long worried about the possibility of the supplies it sends the FSA falling into the hands of extremists. Some U.S. allies inside the rebellion shared those concerns. “We warned the U.S. government for over a year about ISIS gathering strength and spreading in the North,” said one opposition official involved in channeling U.S. assistance to the FSA.Now many are questioning how much longer the FSA can survive, following news that fighters from a new, hardline coalition called the Islamic Front, which boasts an estimated 45,000 fighters in Syria, overtook its main bases and warehouses in Atimeh, a town near the Turkish border late last week. The powerful Islamist faction now stands poised to overtake the FSA as the country’s dominant rebel force.
The FSA’s loss of those key facilities — and the U.S.-provided supplies likely stored inside the warehouses — prompted the U.S. to suspend all shipments of non-lethal aid into northern Syria, dealing the FSA yet another blow.

“The international community … needs a reason to stop supporting any player in this war. They just got their reason.”


FSA officials have suggested that the struggle with the Islamic Front might be resolved through negotiations, and that U.S. shipments might eventually resume. But speculation is already swirling that the FSA and its leadership under Gen. Salim Idriss — officially called the Supreme Military Command, or SMC, the political opposition’s military wing — might be at its end. One source close to the SMC called the Islamic Front’s recent aggression in Atimeh “an attack and overthrow, basically.”
“There is no longer an SMC headquarters under Idriss in northern Syria,” the source said. “Everyone is now working to develop a new strategy.”
The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday that the Islamic Front offensive had even forced Idriss to flee Syria, though he denied this in a CNN interview on Thursday, saying he hadn’t been in Syria at the time. He is currently in Turkey.

Recent events raise a critical question for the FSA. If it can’t secure its supply routes into Syria from Turkey, its most important base for international support, how can it survive? The FSA is also bleeding fighters to its more Islamist counterparts; several key battalions bolted for the Islamic Front last month. “You’ve got to ask: What does Selim Idriss control right now?”

The Islamic Front has received significant backing from Gulf countries, notably Saudi Arabia. It says it want to establish an Islamic state in Syria, governed by Sharia Law

Read more @: The End Of The Free Syrian Army

FSA is falling apart. They are loosing more and more territory, cant even control their supply routes, loosing more and more fighters to Islamic and Jihadist groups, and are weakening. Pretty soon its gonna be mainly Islamic and Jihadist groups solely vs Assad's forces.

 

[anatta]

FSA is falling apart. They are loosing more and more territory, cant even control their supply routes, loosing more and more fighters to Islamic and Jihadist groups, and are weakening. Pretty soon its gonna be mainly Islamic and Jihadist groups solely vs Assad's forces. [/FONT]

probably. I read someplace about a correspondent who was with the Islamists (pre Islamic Front formation).

The Islamists had contempt for the FSA types; they were driven by religion, not politics. I wish I could remebr the quote;
but it was something like "we aren't going to negotitate -we are going to achieve a caliphate" ( para phrased)

Put that up against the west's FSA types? I don't think so - Geneva 2 is going to be a fun ride.

 

[MadLib]

The fall of the Free Syrian Army would not be good for liberty or for US interests in the Middle East. There are two conceivable paths for the US that would both preserve the FSA and defeat the Islamic Front:

1. If we are to launch airstrikes against Assad forces and plants in Syria, we should include ISIS and IF targets in such a plan. This would lead to the dispersion of their forces and the destruction of their advanced capabilities, as well as give Obama more credibility on the matter.

2. Continue our aid to the SNC and FSA and include lethal aid in our packages. By doing this, we would both increase FSA successes on the battlefield against the Baathist regime and help protect their holdings against Islamist fighters.

 

[anatta]

The fall of the Free Syrian Army would not be good for liberty or for US interests in the Middle East. There are two conceivable paths for the US that would both preserve the FSA and defeat the Islamic Front:

1. If we are to launch airstrikes against Assad forces and plants in Syria, we should include ISIS and IF targets in such a plan. This would lead to the dispersion of their forces and the destruction of their advanced capabilities, as well as give Obama more credibility on the matter.

2. Continue our aid to the SNC and FSA and include lethal aid in our packages. By doing this, we would both increase FSA successes on the battlefield against the Baathist regime and help protect their holdings against Islamist fighters.

how do you launch airstrikes, and not get sucked into their regional proxy war?
It would take helicopters, as the units are close, they are unmarked ( except for those whom fly the black flags of AQ),
and intelligence is stale, or worthless.

The alliances have shifted in the past, though this seems to be more glued together for the longer run.

as to lethal aid:
Lawfare › Complexities in USG Covert Action to Supply Weapons to Syrian Rebels

NYT also suggests that this strategy is unlikely to work:

But blacklisting the Nusra Front could backfire. It would pit the United States against some of the best fighters in the insurgency that it aims to support. While some Syrian rebels fear the group’s growing power, others work closely with it and admire it — or, at least, its military achievements — and are loath to end their cooperation.

Leaders of the Free Syrian Army, the loose-knit rebel umbrella group that the United States seeks to bolster, expressed exasperation that the United States, which has refused to provide weapons throughout the conflict that has killed more than 40,000 people, is now opposing a group they see as a vital ally

 

[Montecresto]

The fall of the Free Syrian Army would not be good for liberty or for US interests in the Middle East. There are two conceivable paths for the US that would both preserve the FSA and defeat the Islamic Front:

1. If we are to launch airstrikes against Assad forces and plants in Syria, we should include ISIS and IF targets in such a plan. This would lead to the dispersion of their forces and the destruction of their advanced capabilities, as well as give Obama more credibility on the matter.

2. Continue our aid to the SNC and FSA and include lethal aid in our packages. By doing this, we would both increase FSA successes on the battlefield against the Baathist regime and help protect their holdings against Islamist fighters.

Except that president Assad has every right to exist and defend his government and country. He is in effect, fighting his own war on terror and we interfere not only to his dismay, but that of the UN, Russia and China amongst others.

 

[US Conservative]

Read more @: [/I]The End Of The Free Syrian Army

FSA is falling apart. They are loosing more and more territory, cant even control their supply routes, loosing more and more fighters to Islamic and Jihadist groups, and are weakening. Pretty soon its gonna be mainly Islamic and Jihadist groups solely vs Assad's forces. [/FONT]

They have been losing for months, Obama' little war monger rant a few months back guaranteed Assad would stay in power-who else is going to cooperate with the UN? :roll:

Its been losing for some time now, last week they ate a lion in a zoo to keep from starving.

The best source of info, I have found over the last 3 years is (no ****) militaryphotos.net

It wont end with a bang, it will end with a whimper. The FSA will continue to commit acts against civilians, and Assad will come down like the hand of thor on anyone remotely suspected of contributing. They have been sneaking across the border into lebanon, Iraq, and elsewhere for some time.

Im only bummed that this doesn't get drawn out longer because it was a lightning rod for radical islamists and when they are killing each other they aren't elsewhere.



And seeing how urban combat has died down the last several months, from tank camera footage is interesting as well.

 

[US Conservative]

The fall of the Free Syrian Army would not be good for liberty or for US interests in the Middle East. There are two conceivable paths for the US that would both preserve the FSA and defeat the Islamic Front:

1. If we are to launch airstrikes against Assad forces and plants in Syria, we should include ISIS and IF targets in such a plan. This would lead to the dispersion of their forces and the destruction of their advanced capabilities, as well as give Obama more credibility on the matter.

2. Continue our aid to the SNC and FSA and include lethal aid in our packages. By doing this, we would both increase FSA successes on the battlefield against the Baathist regime and help protect their holdings against Islamist fighters.

Why? We aren't striking anyone there, Assad called our chump presidents bluff. So did Russia. Obama has no credibility.

The FSA is broken, they are all killed or fleeing. Assad fights in a total war/russian style. The war is essentially over and the collection of thug islamists known as the FSA aren't long for this world.

Notice who these thug FSA guys are. Listen to this audio. Its al shabbab. The ****ers who attacked that kenyan mall? same guys.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaab_(militant_group)

tell me again why we should help these guys.

 

[MadLib]

how do you launch airstrikes, and not get sucked into their regional proxy war?

We managed to achieve a lot with our interventions in Kosovo and Libya without getting sucked in.

It would take helicopters, as the units are close, they are unmarked ( except for those whom fly the black flags of AQ),
and intelligence is stale, or worthless.

The alliances have shifted in the past, though this seems to be more glued together for the longer run.

as to lethal aid:
Lawfare › Complexities in USG Covert Action to Supply Weapons to Syrian Rebels

Now these are legitimate concerns. If we can find Salafist training camps or formations, we should bomb those - and we can use Predator drones rather than helicopters IMO. As for the alliances, I'm sure that the FSA would abandon their Islamist alliance for much better Western support.

 

[MadLib]

Except that president Assad has every right to exist and defend his government and country.

He has no right to bomb, slaughter, torture, and rape his own people, nor to withhold their right to an elected government.

He is in effect, fighting his own war on terror and we interfere not only to his dismay, but that of the UN, Russia and China amongst others.

None of their opinions are relevant at all to what is the right choice in this matter. Russia and China didn't seem to take issue with unilaterally invading Georgia and Tibet.

 

[MadLib]

Notice who these thug FSA guys are. Listen to this audio. Its al shabbab. The ****ers who attacked that kenyan mall? same guys.


Al-Shabaab (militant group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tell me again why we should help these guys.

That's not the FSA - the FSA emblem does not have the black flag of jihad, but the inverted Syrian flag.

al-Shabaab is a Somali terrorist group, not an Arab one. How exactly did you extrapolate that these people are al-Shabaab because they're shouting "Shabaa?"

 

[anatta]

We managed to achieve a lot with our interventions in Kosovo and Libya without getting sucked in.

we managed to create a 'terrorist state' from a fairly stable Libya, where Qaddafi had renounced terrorism
(after Reagan almost blew him up in his tent), and al,lowed the CIA to roam east Africa. Libya under Qaddafi did not harbor AQ, unlike now.

Now these are legitimate concerns. If we can find Salafist training camps or formations, we should bomb those - and we can use Predator drones rather than helicopters IMO. As for the alliances, I'm sure that the FSA would abandon their Islamist alliance for much better Western support.

Even if the so called 'pro west' (FSA types) were willing to abandon the jihadists (Al-Nusra), they would lose the war, as Al-Nusra is native Syrian
and one of the most successful fighter groups. It's impossible to seperate them on the battlefield.

I suppose it's possible to degrade them other places, but what does this accomplish?
If you start to degrade Assad, like Obama once promised,you can be pretty sure the Sunni jihadists are the winners.

It's internecine war, impossible to seperate, or guide any outcomes; you start to aid/degrade one group; the dominoes will fall in funny ways.

FSA leader just fled Syria.

Syrian Rebel Leader’s Flight a ‘Big Problem’ for US - ABC News

Idris is the head of the Free Syrian Army who reportedly fled Syria to Qatar this weekend after Islamic fighters took control of his group’s headquarters and warehouses in northern Syria stocked with U.S. aid.
That seizure prompted an end of U.S non-lethal assistance to rebels in that part of Syria to prevent it from getting into the hands of extremist rebels.

 

[US Conservative]

That's not the FSA - the FSA emblem does not have the black flag of jihad, but the inverted Syrian flag.

al-Shabaab is a Somali terrorist group, not an Arab one. How exactly did you extrapolate that these people are al-Shabaab because they're shouting "Shabaa?"

Like they are all wearing Emblems, half of them dont even have uniforms. The "FSA" is not a cohesive body, and it is supplied from whomever will supply them.

Tell us whats best for liberty. :roll:

 

[Mr. Invisible]

So, what are you going to do to help the FSA?

 

[Montecresto]

He has no right to bomb, slaughter, torture, and rape his own people, nor to withhold their right to an elected government.


None of their opinions are relevant at all to what is the right choice in this matter. Russia and China didn't seem to take issue with unilaterally invading Georgia and Tibet.

You mistake him for the terrorists committing those crimes in his country.

The Anglo-American press reports on an internal NATO study (dated June 2013), which takes stock of Syrian public opinion [1].

The study shows that 70% of Syrians support President Bashar al-Assad, 20% adopt a neutral position and 10% support the "rebels."


http://www.voltairenet.org/article178779.html

 

[MadLib]

So, what are you going to do to help the FSA?

Pretty much what I can do, and what would help them the most: I advocate for collective action on their behalf. I'm autistic and physically weak, so I can't fight on their behalf, and I'm not able to support them through other means.

 

[MadLib]

Like they are all wearing Emblems, half of them dont even have uniforms. The "FSA" is not a cohesive body, and it is supplied from whomever will supply them.

Tell us whats best for liberty. :roll:

On translation and closer inspection, this was the Martyr's Brigade of the FSA. I admit that I was wrong about that. However, it still doesn't prove that they're made up of al-Shabaab militants or have any meaningful ties to al-Qaeda.

 

[MadLib]

You mistake him for the terrorists committing those crimes in his country.

1. Syria is not Assad's country, it is the country of its inhabitants.

2. The rebel movement does not have the capability to rain hell on civilians in the same way that the government does.

3. The massacre ratio of government to rebels is 8:1

4. Most war rape victims were assaulted by government forces

The Anglo-American press reports on an internal NATO study (dated June 2013), which takes stock of Syrian public opinion [1].

The study shows that 70% of Syrians support President Bashar al-Assad, 20% adopt a neutral position and 10% support the "rebels."


NATO reveals 70% of Syrians support Bashar al-Assad

A non-poll conducted in a war zone is hardly a credible indicator of popular support for either side.

 

[US Conservative]

On translation and closer inspection, this was the Martyr's Brigade of the FSA. I admit that I was wrong about that. However, it still doesn't prove that they're made up of al-Shabaab militants or have any meaningful ties to al-Qaeda.

AQ is all over the region. They wear distinctive black bands.

The point is they are composed of a series of bad guys, and they are advocating an islamist state.

U.S., Britain suspend aid to north Syria after Islamists seize weapons store | Reuters
Syria: FSA, Islamic Front face off | ASHARQ AL-AWSAT
Islamists seize Free Syrian Army arms depots: activists | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR

 

[US Conservative]

Pretty much what I can do, and what would help them the most: I advocate for collective action on their behalf. I'm autistic and physically weak, so I can't fight on their behalf, and I'm not able to support them through other means.

Its over and done, the "FSA" is stealing and infighting, while Assad mops up. Those that can flee are fleeing.

Why would you support a radical islamist group that is supported by under 10% of the population, that WILL kill minority groups if they gain power (Christians, etc)?

 

[Montecresto]

1. Syria is not Assad's country, it is the country of its inhabitants.

2. The rebel movement does not have the capability to rain hell on civilians in the same way that the government does.

3. The massacre ratio of government to rebels is 8:1

4. Most war rape victims were assaulted by government forces


A non-poll conducted in a war zone is hardly a credible indicator of popular support for either side.

Don't be so dismissive. Watch a little international news (Hillary says its informative and that they are kicking our asses in the information war) and you will get a different perspective from the largely one sided propaganda coming from domestic sources. Btw, works good for other subjects, too.

 

[DDD]

we managed to create a 'terrorist state' from a fairly stable Libya, where Qaddafi had renounced terrorism
(after Reagan almost blew him up in his tent), and al,lowed the CIA to roam east Africa. Libya under Qaddafi did not harbor AQ, unlike now.

He did though mentioned Dardania too (see clarification in signature). You only may have dropped Libya in this response.

 

[anatta]

He did though mentioned Dardania too (see clarification in signature). You only may have dropped Libya in this response.

Kosovo? ya that was OK. I mean there is a time to intervene to stop bloodshed, we had no desire to "nationbuild"
( as far as I know) - just seperate that factions.

Libya was taking the side of the NTC, which came out of Bengazi - which was led by a "renounced AQ" leader (etc.)

Look at the Balkans, now vs. look at the FUBAR Libya is now. we assassinated Qaddafi, and facilitated a internal revolution.

Libya is now militia rule, the country's oil isn't flowing, and terrorist live openly (abu-Anas in Tripoli)

 

[DDD]

Kosovo? ya that was OK. I mean there is a time to intervene to stop bloodshed, we had no desire to "nationbuild"
( as far as I know) - just seperate that factions.

Libya was taking the side of the NTC, which came out of Bengazi - which was led by a "renounced AQ" leader (etc.)

Look at the Balkans, now vs. look at the FUBAR Libya is now. we assassinated Qaddafi, and facilitated a internal revolution.

Libya is now militia rule, the country's oil isn't flowing, and terrorist live openly (abu-Anas in Tripoli)

Something is missing then. Why do interventions work better here and do not solve all problems in the Middle East?

 

[anatta]

Something is missing then. Why do interventions work better here and do not solve all problems in the Middle East?

short answer: the Balkans were a bloodbath, driven by ethinic internals. from what I know, we seperated the partys (simplistic look).
Our job was peacekeepers.

Compare that to intervention where we take sides, and get drawn into the ourtcomes -they usually end up badly.

Nothing wrong with limited counter-terrorism, for REALLY high value targets; it's when we treat ALL al_qaeda as "drone worthy"
the problems arise.
Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14 - CNN.com

 

[MMC]

Like they are all wearing Emblems, half of them dont even have uniforms. The "FSA" is not a cohesive body, and it is supplied from whomever will supply them.

Tell us whats best for liberty. :roll:

Mornin USC. :2wave: Yeah the FSA is made up of a lot of Terrorists. I have several threads up on who is in the make up and who is backing them.


Now I don't know what is good for Liberty.....but I do know what some would say is Best in Life. :2razz: