The Collapse of Obamacare in North Carolina

[ttwtt78640]

under single payer, that entity would have a lot more leverage to push prices down, which has to happen regardless of which fix we pick.

Why does that not work for public K-12 education or college costs? Both are higher in the US.

EDIT: Folks tend to be less frugal when spending other people's money.

 

[Helix]

Why does that not work for public K-12 education or college costs? Both are higher in the US.

EDIT: Folks tend to be less frugal when spending other people's money.

i'm for guaranteeing debt free access to college at public universities upon completion of the degree, as well.

 

[ttwtt78640]

i'm for guaranteeing debt free access to college at public universities upon completion of the degree, as well.

Hmm... only those that try but fail to get a college degree should have to pay the bill.

Those that get a college degree, and thus a chance at a much better paying job, deserve more public help than those that fail to graduate (for whatever reason) from college. Interesting logic, indeed.

 

[Juggernaut]

Voucher system for kids in bad school districts has worked really well.

School vouchers work, why aren't more available? | TheHill

Yeah... if your the lucky kid who gets a voucher.

School vouchers only take money from mandated non-selective enrolled public schools and transfers it to private schools that have the luxury of selecting cream of the crop enrollment . But, that topic is for another thread.

 

[Helix]

Hmm... only those that try but fail to get a college degree should have to pay the bill.

Those that get a college degree, and thus a chance at a much better paying job, deserve more public help than those that fail to graduate (for whatever reason) from college. Interesting logic, indeed.

that would be a compromise position to appease those who would furiously oppose it. as for my personal preference, i support treating post secondary education like secondary education. however, i'm willing to settle for requiring the student to complete the degree or pay back the tuition. that would still be a big improvement over the current system.

 

[ludin]

You also seem to "care less" that studies show the U.S. HC system to be less liked, more expensive, and wtih no better outcomes than countries with universal HC.

Yep I ignore bias studies that put more weight on how many people have it.
The US ranks number 1 in procedures, medical equipment, doctors in the world.
when you have the best you have to pay for it.

 

[ludin]

fixing our healthcare distribution system isn't "destroying" it. you already know this from the other threads. here's a refresher.

Hmm as usual you seem to no only ignore this thread but even the Gov. of MN who is a democrat is complaining that obamacare is too expensive.
Most of the insurance companies there have left as well or gone out of business.

Yep it was designed to fail and we said it was from the get go. why? because government is incompetent at running healthcare.
the VA proves you 100% incorrect.

 

[ludin]

Yeah... if your the lucky kid who gets a voucher.

School vouchers only take money from mandated non-selective enrolled public schools and transfers it to private schools that have the luxury of selecting cream of the crop enrollment . But, that topic is for another thread.

again this doesn't prove the article wrong. so there you have it.

 

[ludin]

that would be a compromise position to appease those who would furiously oppose it. as for my personal preference, i support treating post secondary education like secondary education. however, i'm willing to settle for requiring the student to complete the degree or pay back the tuition. that would still be a big improvement over the current system.

still haven't started that scholarship fund have you? why not?

 

[Helix]

Hmm as usual you seem to no only ignore this thread but even the Gov. of MN who is a democrat is complaining that obamacare is too expensive.
Most of the insurance companies there have left as well or gone out of business.

Yep it was designed to fail and we said it was from the get go. why? because government is incompetent at running healthcare.
the VA proves you 100% incorrect.

refer to the thousand other threads in which i have explained this to you.

 

[Helix]

still haven't started that scholarship fund have you? why not?

refer to the thousand other threads in which i have explained this to you.

 

[ludin]

refer to the thousand other threads in which i have explained this to you.

you are still just as incorrect in those as you are here.

 

[ludin]

refer to the thousand other threads in which i have explained this to you.

so you obviously want to force others to do something you won't do yourself thanks for at least admitting it.
so you can quit being a broken record in these threads as you have been proven wrong on both of your arguments.

 

[Helix]

so you obviously want to force others to do something you won't do yourself thanks for at least admitting it.
so you can quit being a broken record in these threads as you have been proven wrong on both of your arguments.

already addressed countless times. i'll see you next time you show up in a health care / college debt thread, pretending that your arguments haven't already been debunked.

 

[LowDown]

That (bolded above) is not true. If the kind of tax used is progressive enough then there easily could be more voters getting a better deal than the fewer voters being forced to finance that better deal.

That is the very basis for Bernie's "free" and Hillary's "debt free" college plans - promise the majority a new benefit to be paid for by taxing a minority. In Hillary's case, those making up to $125K (83%?) would get the proposed "debt free" college benefit and the rest (17%?) would be forced to fund its cost.

Well, they couldn't get it past the voters in deep blue Vermont, so...

 

[LowDown]

Debunking Canadian health care myths – The Denver Post

The political culture in Canada and the US is entirely different.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

the half measure ACA was always likely to fail. it's time to expand medicare into single payer. we can transition to that with a public option.

Except that medicare sucks too.

 

[LowDown]

The problem with Republican warnings is that...when you cry wolf every day, no one believes you when there really IS one.

The Republicans are anti-climate change, anti-abortion, anti-Planned Parenthood, anti-food stamps, anti-unemployment compensation, anti-government, anti-Social Security, anti-Medicare, anti-regulation, etc. So it's no surprise that anti-healthcare reform was met by the public with the same yawn.

BTW, the ACA had about 200 Republican amendments...so the Dems DID try to come up with a bi-partisan act. But the Republicans wouldn't work across the aisle at all. As McConnell said, their #1 goal was to keep Obama from having a second term. Their goal was not to improve health care.

But be prepared, you'll be attacked with Joe Wilson "YOU LIE!" screams and other various diversions, to steer attention away from the Obamacare implosion that is occurring across the nation.

The biggest problem with the public understanding Obamacare is that it's so complicated that a person needs to be in the system to understand all the problems, and to experience the frustrations, the exorbitant cost, and the heartache of it all. Some of the problems are so bad that the public simply doesn't believe such problems would exist; therefore, YOU must be lying. Since the actuality can't be real. But it is.

It would be helpful if you mentioned why Republicans are wrong about all that. Republicans are certainly right about Social Security and Medicare. They are headed for insolvency.

Yes, Republicans keep telling you NO. And they are right to do so.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

there will be naysayers, but in a generation, it will be as normal as Medicare for senior citizens is now.

I am two years and two months from medicare eligibility I don't expect there to be much of it left by the time I am eligible. There is already a medicare doctora shortage. It will only get 100 fold worse if medicare is expanded to everyone. And I know that you are tired of hearing the following question, however:" Considering how badly the government has mucked up medicare, what on God's green earth gives you such confidence that the government can handle it under a nationalized single payer system?"

 

[Helix]

The political culture in Canada and the US is entirely different.

the biochemistry of its citizens isn't.

 

[Helix]

Except that medicare sucks too.

if they don't privatize it before i can collect, i suppose that i'll find out.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well, they couldn't get it past the voters in deep blue Vermont, so...

That is probably because VT has only a slightly progressive state income tax (income above about 38K is now taxed at between about 7% to 9%) so adding "free" health care (or any other high cost benefit) would at least double those tax rates. The trick is to convince most taxpayers (or voters) that only "the rich" would be taxed more to provide the latest "free" stuff promised.

State taxes: Vermont | Bankrate.com

 

[Helix]

I am two years and two months from medicare eligibility I don't expect there to be much of it left by the time I am eligible. There is already a medicare doctora shortage. It will only get 100 fold worse if medicare is expanded to everyone. And I know that you are tired of hearing the following question, however:" Considering how badly the government has mucked up medicare, what on God's green earth gives you such confidence that the government can handle it under a nationalized single payer system?"

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...t_sys_comparison_12_nations_intl_brief_v2.pdf

i hope that your experience with medicare is better than you fear it will be. i hope my experience with medicare happens at all.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am two years and two months from medicare eligibility I don't expect there to be much of it left by the time I am eligible. There is already a medicare doctora shortage. It will only get 100 fold worse if medicare is expanded to everyone. And I know that you are tired of hearing the following question, however:" Considering how badly the government has mucked up medicare, what on God's green earth gives you such confidence that the government can handle it under a nationalized single payer system?"

Many health care providers can afford to take some Medicare and CHIPS patients but cannot survive exclusively on those "lower return" patients. The clinic that I use will accept current patients that later transfer (transition?) to Medicare but will not accept any new Medicare patients.

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

I am two years and two months from medicare eligibility I don't expect there to be much of it left by the time I am eligible. There is already a medicare doctora shortage. It will only get 100 fold worse if medicare is expanded to everyone. And I know that you are tired of hearing the following question, however:" Considering how badly the government has mucked up medicare, what on God's green earth gives you such confidence that the government can handle it under a nationalized single payer system?"

medicare is OK for you, but obamacare for others isn't

LOL