The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261:356]

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

No. Much like the science you're trying to sell, your translation is muddy.

I was 100% correct

You have cited science when it supports your beliefs, and ignored it when it doesn't.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

You see, the challenge is that I don't subscribe to the scenario you believe. It's absurd, but I understand you believe it to be true. Low lying areas flooded, the whole apocalypse scenario. Hundreds of millions of people don't buy it, and there is nothing you can do about it.

The fact that conservatives want to stop the sick penalizing of business for some pie in the sky "greater good" as preached from the liberal/progressive pulpit, is the point. All people will benefit when the economic engine is running well. Pouring sand in the crank case, as has been the case with the runaway regulatory incrementalism will accomplish nothing.

California is the proof of this approach to business, regulation, and taxation. 15 years of draconian liberal rule, and the results can't be ignored.

I'm just glad we didn't have Republicans/Tea Partiers/conservatives like you when the scientists warned us about how we had to stop production of chloroflourocarbons because they were eating away at the ozone hole. I can see your arguments "It's all a hoax - they want to destroy our profits and our businesses just because they claim it's for the greater good!"

Oh, and btw: you said "All people will benefit when the economic engine is running well." Riiiiiight. Problem is, you refuse to even acknowledge the threat to your oh-so-precious 'economic engine'. From Harvard:

Of particular concern to human civilization is the fate of the world’s coastal cities. Conservative estimates of sea level rise by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Changes (IPCC) project increases of more than half a foot to two feet by the year 2100. More up-to-date analyses by the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, which account for the effects of melting ice sheets around the globe, suggest that sea level will rise three feet to as much as five feet or more by 2100. Ninety years from now, in other words, vast densely populated coastal areas around the world will be underwater, including major cities—unless they prepare.

It's not apocalyptic hystieria, guy - it's SCIENCE. And you're a prime example of the findings of studies even from the 1950's that have shown that when presented with scientific facts that strongly dispute their personal beliefs, all too many people have a tendency to reject those scientific facts out of hand.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

I'm just glad we didn't have Republicans/Tea Partiers/conservatives like you when the scientists warned us about how we had to stop production of chloroflourocarbons because they were eating away at the ozone hole. I can see your arguments "It's all a hoax - they want to destroy our profits and our businesses just because they claim it's for the greater good!"

Oh, and btw: you said "All people will benefit when the economic engine is running well." Riiiiiight. Problem is, you refuse to even acknowledge the threat to your oh-so-precious 'economic engine'. From Harvard:

Of particular concern to human civilization is the fate of the world’s coastal cities. Conservative estimates of sea level rise by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Changes (IPCC) project increases of more than half a foot to two feet by the year 2100. More up-to-date analyses by the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, which account for the effects of melting ice sheets around the globe, suggest that sea level will rise three feet to as much as five feet or more by 2100. Ninety years from now, in other words, vast densely populated coastal areas around the world will be underwater, including major cities—unless they prepare.

It's not apocalyptic hystieria, guy - it's SCIENCE. And you're a prime example of the findings of studies even from the 1950's that have shown that when presented with scientific facts that strongly dispute their personal beliefs, all too many people have a tendency to reject those scientific facts out of hand.

As I wrote, there are millions upon millions who don't agree with this new religion of yours.

You quaint insults and questions about intellegence are nothing but fodder for those who realize how gullible some are.

As to CFC's, I started a company in 1985 that patented a manufacturing process that allowed certain plastics to be made insullative without CFC's. I willing to bet you have held one of my products in your hand on more than one occasion.

Made me a wealthy man.

So I guess your knee jerk reaction in that regard was a bit misplaced. Like so many knee jerk reactions of ProgLibs are.

By the way, I live at the beach. As in, I walk out my back door onto the sand. Been there for a couple of decades. Not one single reporting station along the Southern California coast has recorded any sea level change of note. NOT ONE.

So, keep selling...

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

As I wrote, there are millions upon millions who don't agree with this new religion of yours.

You quaint insults and questions about intellegence are nothing but fodder for those who realize how gullible some are.

As to CFC's, I started a company in 1985 that patented a manufacturing process that allowed certain plastics to be made insullative without CFC's. I willing to bet you have held one of my products in your hand on more than one occasion.

Made me a wealthy man.

So I guess your knee jerk reaction in that regard was a bit misplaced. Like so many knee jerk reactions of ProgLibs are.

By the way, I live at the beach. As in, I walk out my back door onto the sand. Been there for a couple of decades. Not one single reporting station along the Southern California coast has recorded any sea level change of note. NOT ONE.

So, keep selling...

I'm really happy for you - and that's not sarcasm. Just think on this, though - instead of rejecting the scientific findings brought forth by the scientists of the time, you capitalized on it instead and did very, very well. This time, however, even though we've got the scientific findings by the vast majority of the world's scientists - and particularly among the climatolgists - instead of using yourself as an example of how to capitalize on the opportunity this gives to those willing to invest in alternative energy and energy efficiency, you're rejecting it out of hand.

And btw, when you say that there's been no sea level rise recorded along the Southern California coast, perhaps you should check again:



Some of that is due to plate tectonics, of course. Some of it's not. Furthermore, as I'm sure you're aware, the sea will rise at different rates at different locations if for no other reason that gravity is not uniform all over the planet. As a matter of fact, the waters off Southen California may even have dropped somewhat - but that doesn't mean it dropped everywhere, thanks to (again) plate tectonics and the differing levels of gravity in different areas of the planet:



Of course, this is simply science and not only strongly disputes what you already believe, but is supported by those you oppose politically, and for those reasons you're probably going to reject all this anyway - at least that's what the scientific studies I referenced earlier would predict.

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

As I wrote, there are millions upon millions who don't agree with this new religion of yours.

And there are millions upon millions who think Jesus rode dinosaurs

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

P.S. - that last map was of the differing levels of gravity on the planet - blue weakest, and so forth.

 

[Sisyphus]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

And there are millions upon millions who think Jesus rode dinosaurs

He did. I forget in which book of the New Testament Paul is quoted as saying unto the Lord, "Holy smokes, Lord; but that for art one really big lizard thou dust ride!"

Amen.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

I'm really happy for you - and that's not sarcasm. Just think on this, though - instead of rejecting the scientific findings brought forth by the scientists of the time, you capitalized on it instead and did very, very well. This time, however, even though we've got the scientific findings by the vast majority of the world's scientists - and particularly among the climatolgists - instead of using yourself as an example of how to capitalize on the opportunity this gives to those willing to invest in alternative energy and energy efficiency, you're rejecting it out of hand.

And btw, when you say that there's been no sea level rise recorded along the Southern California coast, perhaps you should check again:

View attachment 67150655

Some of that is due to plate tectonics, of course. Some of it's not. Furthermore, as I'm sure you're aware, the sea will rise at different rates at different locations if for no other reason that gravity is not uniform all over the planet. As a matter of fact, the waters off Southen California may even have dropped somewhat - but that doesn't mean it dropped everywhere, thanks to (again) plate tectonics and the differing levels of gravity in different areas of the planet:

View attachment 67150657

Of course, this is simply science and not only strongly disputes what you already believe, but is supported by those you oppose politically, and for those reasons you're probably going to reject all this anyway - at least that's what the scientific studies I referenced earlier would predict.

Well yes, I am aware of what the National Research Council came up with, along with others who profit from the issue.

And I am aware of the posturing in their studies.

So, lets say in answer to the coming global apocalypse the US Government tacks on massive fees and passes stiffling regulations on business and industry in an effort to generate the largest piles of cash ever generated by mankind. As US business and industry struggles under the burden, the US government then distributes all that loot around to various places through the UN.

Do you think India will change anything? Do you think China will? Will the ocean stop rising? Will anything change? Will deforestation stop?

After all that effort, and all the economic damage, what if the models were wrong?

As I wrote before, the snarky stuff from those trying to sell the program really doesn't help.

The science has proven to be controversial, many scientists have been found to be corrupt and on the take for more research dollars, and the pimps surround the religion rather obnoxious.

If you're going to force every man woman and child on the planet to change, you'd better get better players, because the ones you have now suck big time.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

And there are millions upon millions who think Jesus rode dinosaurs

Dang. Really? You must travel in interesting circles.

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Well yes, I am aware of what the National Research Council came up with, along with others who profit from the issue.

Unlike the people who publish studies supporting the idea that we should remain addicted to oil and coal. No one profits from those! :roll:

And I am aware of the posturing in their studies.

So, lets say in answer to the coming global apocalypse the US Government tacks on massive fees and passes stiffling regulations on business and industry in an effort to generate the largest piles of cash ever generated by mankind.

Let's not and say we did

Instead, let's say the US invests in the development of clean and renewable energy sources and continues to be the worlds economic leader due to the sort of innovation and technological prowess we've demonstrated in the past

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Unlike the people who publish studies supporting the idea that we should remain addicted to oil and coal. No one profits from those! :roll:



Let's not and say we did

Instead, let's say the US invests in the development of clean and renewable energy sources and continues to be the worlds economic leader due to the sort of innovation and technological prowess we've demonstrated in the past

Or, let's say we pass more government regulations that strangle businesses and require expensive compliance measures and cuts in payroll, rather than allowing them to afford to develope new products and technologies on their own so they can meet demand for more efficient products and hire more people, pay them better, and increase revenues to state and local governments.

We have California to review for the former appoach. All that Big Brother regulation and taxation has done wonders for the economy, hasn't it?

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Or, let's say we pass more government regulations that strangle businesses and require expensive compliance measures and cuts in payroll, rather than allowing them to afford to develope new products and technologies on their own so they can meet demand for more efficient products and hire more people, pay them better, and increase revenues to state and local governments.

We have California to review for the former appoach. All that Big Brother regulation and taxation has done wonders for the economy, hasn't it?

You mean the state with one of the largest economies in the US, and one of the centers of technology development in this country?

Yes, it sure has done wonders.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

We have California to review for the former appoach. All that Big Brother regulation and taxation has done wonders for the economy, hasn't it?

cough...as if....cough......regs.....cough....caused ...cough...the dowturn....cough.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

You mean the state with one of the largest economies in the US, and one of the centers of technology development in this country?

Yes, it sure has done wonders.

Yes, the state with some of the highest unemployment in the nation, the highest income taxes and fees in the nation, the highest sales taxes in the nation, and with 13% of the nations population, home to over 30% of the nations welfare cases. Of course I could list the cities that have declared bankruptcy, but that would be piling on...

Probably better to know something about California before thinking you're making a point.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

cough...as if....cough......regs.....cough....caused ...cough...the dowturn....cough.

You should have seen it before California made pot legal...

 

[Sisyphus]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

You mean the state with one of the largest economies in the US, and one of the centers of technology development in this country?

Yes, it sure has done wonders.

The largest economy, of the 50 states.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

You should have seen it before California made pot legal...

Huhuh...cute.

You avoided the point...as usual.

The regs on petro vehicles did not happen because Detroit wanted to "do it on their own".

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Yes, the state with some of the highest unemployment in the nation, the highest income taxes and fees in the nation, the highest sales taxes in the nation, and with 13% of the nations population, home to over 30% of the nations welfare cases. Of course I could list the cities that have declared bankruptcy, but that would be piling on...

Probably better to know something about California before thinking you're making a point.

ANd yet, with all those taxes and regulations, CA has the largest economy in the US and is a center for technological innovation!

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

ANd yet, with all those taxes and regulations, CA is one of the largest economies in the US and is a center for technological innovation!

Tell that to the unemployed in the state. Tell that to the family struggling to pay the highest gasoline taxes in the country while mom and dad weigh putting gas in the car to get to work, or putting food on the table for their children.

Hey, California is liberal/progressive nirvana - If you're a state worker under union contract. The rest need to starve and get out of the way.

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Tell that to the unemployed in the state. Tell that to the family struggling to pay the highest gasoline taxes in the country while mom and dad weigh putting gas in the car to get to work, or putting food on the table for their children.

Hey, California is liberal/progressive nirvana - If you're a state worker under union contract. The rest need to starve and get out of the way.

You got owned about how CA regulations are stifling technology and innovation, and destroying their economy, so now you're trying to change your argument to unemployment.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

It is so weird how conservatives argue against regulations, when at base, regulations (or laws) are designed to force everyone to do the correct thing, which protects ALL of us.
The argument is that they increase costs, but we created these environment laws specifically to not cost those who are negatively effected in absence of the laws.

 

[ocean515]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

You got owned about how CA regulations are stifling technology and innovation, and destroying their economy, so now you're trying to change your argument to unemployment.

:lamo

What is it with the angry left? Got "owned"?

Perhaps you need to attach your need for victory to someone else, because if you perceive you've had some kind of win, you've demonstrated much about why liberal/progressives are so far behind.

 

[polgara]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Tell that to the unemployed in the state. Tell that to the family struggling to pay the highest gasoline taxes in the country while mom and dad weigh putting gas in the car to get to work, or putting food on the table for their children.

Hey, California is liberal/progressive nirvana - If you're a state worker under union contract. The rest need to starve and get out of the way.

Not counting Detroit, also a liberal/progressive failure, weren't cities in California also among the first to file bankruptcy because they just don't have the revenue to meet their obligations to the unions? Not that we hear much about that fact from the Left, but I guess that's not a first I'd brag about either! :no:

 

[sangha]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

:lamo

What is it with the angry left? Got "owned"?

Perhaps you need to attach your need for victory to someone else, because if you perceive you've had some kind of win, you've demonstrated much about why liberal/progressives are so far behind.

IOW, you still can't defend your claim that regulations in CA have strangled technological development in CA, so now you're going to whine about the left.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: The Case in Support of HIgh Taxes and Big Government[W:261]

Not counting Detroit, also a liberal/progressive failure, weren't cities in California also among the first to file bankruptcy because they just don't have the revenue to meet their obligations to the unions? Not that we hear much about that fact from the Left, but I guess that's not a first I'd brag about either! :no:

How is Detroit or CA cities an example of regulation causing bankruptcies? Both are occurring in a time of recession, both primarily due to revenue declines.

If anything, the revenue declines for CA cities has come from RE collapse....and that was due to subprime idiocy by the major lenders.....a case of deregulation.