The Case for Christ

[Cephus]

Well, I am impressed, I thought that was a little too esoteric for most people.

I've read some weird things, not just in Christianity, but in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and many others as well.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Yeah, Grudem is more the 30,000 foot view.

It also appears to be a textbook - 34 bucks for the e-version and 1,200+ pages.

You can view me as an interested skeptic. I'm looking for information that explains the reasoning behind different religions and information from independent sources that justifies the claims of those religions. I tend toward empiricism, but logical argument also works for me as long as it's rational and backed by accepted facts.

I'm going to try Top 20 Christian Apologists | CrossExamined.org

some of those. I've been through a couple of them already.

 

[it's just me]

It also appears to be a textbook - 34 bucks for the e-version and 1,200+ pages.

You can view me as an interested skeptic. I'm looking for information that explains the reasoning behind different religions and information from independent sources that justifies the claims of those religions. I tend toward empiricism, but logical argument also works for me as long as it's rational and backed by accepted facts.

I'm going to try Top 20 Christian Apologists | CrossExamined.org

some of those. I've been through a couple of them already.

Yeah, my buddy's seminary used that one, my own seminary was more Anglo Catholic centered, but the dirty little secret is that some of the best systematics books are reformed.

I have a friend who is a sort of a big shot in apologetics, and he appeared somewhere with Norm Geisler. You can't go too far wrong with that list.

 

[Cephus]

You can view me as an interested skeptic. I'm looking for information that explains the reasoning behind different religions and information from independent sources that justifies the claims of those religions. I tend toward empiricism, but logical argument also works for me as long as it's rational and backed by accepted facts.

And that's the problem, most of them simply do not. They exist for purely emotional reasons, they make people feel good so they believe it, no matter how irrational it is. That's why there are so many people who are only interested in defending the things they already believe, they really don't care to examine the evidence and follow it to where it logically leads. They want to keep getting that emotional high, even if they believe a lie. It's just pathetic.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

And that's the problem, most of them simply do not. They exist for purely emotional reasons, they make people feel good so they believe it, no matter how irrational it is. That's why there are so many people who are only interested in defending the things they already believe, they really don't care to examine the evidence and follow it to where it logically leads. They want to keep getting that emotional high, even if they believe a lie. It's just pathetic.

I rejected Santa Claus on the grounds that the concept was absurd. I was about 5 years old at the time. I was a STEM major, so things need extremely rational or empirical supporting evidence for me to believe them.

Christian apologetics has had 2,000 years to produce a good argument that doesn't rely on emotion or carrots like heaven and sticks like hell. There are a lot of smart people out there, and some do (IMO) pretty well, but yeah, it ends up with emotional appeal. I'm still looking...

 

[Cephus]

I rejected Santa Claus on the grounds that the concept was absurd. I was about 5 years old at the time. I was a STEM major, so things need extremely rational or empirical supporting evidence for me to believe them.

Christian apologetics has had 2,000 years to produce a good argument that doesn't rely on emotion or carrots like heaven and sticks like hell. There are a lot of smart people out there, and some do (IMO) pretty well, but yeah, it ends up with emotional appeal. I'm still looking...

We're all still looking, or more correctly waiting, for the religious to come up with some actual evidence and all they can do is come up with excuses. I'd be perfectly happy to change my mind if they could prove that any of these gods actually exist.

The problem is, they can't. They can just wave their arms around and pretend.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Ah, atheistic arrogance, how unsurprising.

Lulz.

A. Where have I ever stated that I'm an atheist? What does the bible say about lies?
B. Pointing out your snobbery isn't arrogance.
C. Words have meanings. You should really look into that.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

It is also an oxymoron.:roll:

Oh, there is actual biblical scholarship, but I wouldn't expect a make-believe priest to ever be able to come to terms with that.

 

[it's just me]

Lulz.

A. Where have I ever stated that I'm an atheist? What does the bible say about lies?
B. Pointing out your snobbery isn't arrogance.
C. Words have meanings. You should really look into that.

At least I didn't call Cephus a liar, like you would have.

 

[Cephus]

At least I didn't call Cephus a liar, like you would have.

And if he had, he would have been wrong, just like you are.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

At least I didn't call Cephus a liar, like you would have.

I only call people liars when they lie. Cephus didn't do so. But that's irrelevant to what I posted.

Please try harder and be less dishonest.

 

[it's just me]

And if he had, he would have been wrong, just like you are.

I think you misunderstand me, I am not calling you a liar, just pointing out Tanngrisnir's propensity for ad hominem attacks. I knew you were telling the truth, no one would make that up.

 

[Realitywins]

Oh, there is actual biblical scholarship, but I wouldn't expect a make-believe priest to ever be able to come to terms with that.

There are comic book "scholars" as well and they at least have the advantage of dealing with subject matter they admit is phony.

 

[it's just me]

I only call people liars when they lie. Cephus didn't do so. But that's irrelevant to what I posted.

Please try harder and be less dishonest.

If you ever find yourself out of a job, all you have to do is go down to the movie theater and get a job as a projectionist.

 

[Cephus]

There are comic book "scholars" as well and they at least have the advantage of dealing with subject matter they admit is phony.

Well, you hope so anyhow. I've met people who think that fantasy things are actually real. Those people are scary.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

If you ever find yourself out of a job, all you have to do is go down to the movie theater and get a job as a projectionist.

If you ever decide to become a Christian, I suggest one day actually reading the bible.

They likely have one at the shelter you're in.

 

[Realitywins]

Well, you hope so anyhow. I've met people who think that fantasy things are actually real. Those people are scary.

I have as well, they claimed their religious beliefs were not fantasy. Scary really.

 

[Cephus]

I have as well, they claimed their religious beliefs were not fantasy. Scary really.

I wasn't talking about religion, but people who are supremely convinced that they are, in actuality, an 80-foot long fire breathing dragon but that our primitive human brains cannot comprehend their majesty so we see them as a human. Those people are fundamentally insane. There are crazy people all over.

 

[Realitywins]

I wasn't talking about religion, but people who are supremely convinced that they are, in actuality, an 80-foot long fire breathing dragon but that our primitive human brains cannot comprehend their majesty so we see them as a human. Those people are fundamentally insane. There are crazy people all over.

There certainly are. I have not yet met one that nutso. Yet, there is little difference from what the religious believe.

 

[it's just me]

If you ever decide to become a Christian, I suggest one day actually reading the bible.

They likely have one at the shelter you're in.

And if you ever decide to become a man, I'll punch your card AFTER you chop down a tree.

 

[Cephus]

There certainly are. I have not yet met one that nutso. Yet, there is little difference from what the religious believe.

It's all the same kind of emotionally-driven craziness, people who will believe untrue things because it makes them feel good to do so, not because there's any reason whatsoever to think that it's true. These people aren't interested in reality, they're interested in being happy, no matter what they have to believe to achieve it. It's feels over reals and it's pathetic.

 

[tosca1]

No, you specifically stated "He ended up proving Jesus Christ existed."

Again: you saying that he did won't magically make it true.

Please substantiate your claim.

Again, I know you can't, but I have to ask.

Here's the mic: step on up.

I'm sorry. I was referring to Tacitus.


So yes, Lee Strobel had proven that Christ existed thus he ended up converting. I haven't read the book, but I've heard about it.

He did his own research, and what he found has convinced him that Jesus Christ existed. What he found is proof enough for him. He converted.

If you want to know the details about his research - you should try to do a research about him, or even get his book. I found this video:






Though I gave an intro about him (after all, I took the title of this topic from his book), my arguments - proving Christ - aren't necessarily all based upon his book.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

And if you ever decide to become a man, I'll punch your card AFTER you chop down a tree.

Lulz. Coming from someone who pretends to be a minister, that's rather ironic.

Seriously, have you ever really considered becoming a Christian? It might make you a better person and far less emotionally unstable.

 

[Cephus]

So yes, Lee Strobel had proven that Christ existed thus he ended up converting. I haven't read the book, but I've heard about it.
He did his own research, and what he found has convinced him that Jesus Christ existed. What he found is proof enough for him. He converted.
If you want to know the details about his research - you should try to do a research about him, or even get his book.

Wrong. He became CONVINCED that Jesus existed, thus he converted. His wife had also converted, thus he had a strong reason to do so as well to save the marriage. But none of that actually proves anything. Being convinced of something doesn't make that thing so.

 

[Realitywins]

Lulz. Coming from someone who pretends to be a minister, that's rather ironic.

Seriously, have you ever really considered becoming a Christian? It might make you a better person and far less emotionally unstable.

xianity is emotional instability.