The Boy Scouts, GLBT People And Sexual Predators

[Pinkie]

I like the Boy Scouts. What's not to like about teaching little boys:

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

But I don't like their ban on GLBT people serving as leaders and even worse, their ban on GLBT children being a boy scout.

Now we learn that the Boy Scouts have engaged in a massive cover up a la Penn State of sexual predators among their leaders.

There comes a time when hypocrisy, bigotry and irrationality must end. The Scouts must fully disclose their files on sexual predators and they must end their ban on GLBT people as members and leaders, or they risk becoming such an anachronism that they'll be irrelevant to the lives of American youth.

A sexual predator is not a GLBT person, not even if they prefer a same-sex child to harm. Any adult who prefers sexual contact with a child rather than an adult has his or her own demented sexual orientation -- and is a threat to kids. The Boy Scouts need to answer their clue phone before it's too late.

Boy Scouts of America in struggle to defend policies, image: A Closer Look | cleveland.com

 

[Ikari]

The policies are a bit foolish, they don't just bad GLBT, but also atheists. That being said, it's a private club and they can set the rules.

As for the other part, like the Catholic Church they should have owned up and helped out is prosecutions, but they didn't.

 

[Wake]

Yeah, how dare there be a private organization that doesn't 100% accept homosexuals/homosexuality.

 

[Sarcogito]

Yeah, how dare there be a private organization that doesn't 100% accept homosexuals/homosexuality.

I agree private organizations should be able to do what they want, BUT the BSA gets special treatment by the federal government. For example, they get access to our military bases for their jamborees for the whopping price of $1.

Local and federal government entities have tens of thousands of volunteer positions available to those in the BSA's explorer program that are not available to other BSA-type organizations.When I was 14 I had an awesome volunteer job at my city zoo as helper for their veterinarian. That was an Explorer position. Such positions are also common in law enforcement and fire departments. It is great for building real world experience at a young age. But once again, such positions are monopolized by the BSA's Explorer program.

If you are an Eagle Scout and enlist in the military you get to bypass the rank of E-1 (Private in the Army). So Eagle Scouts get to start their career out with an 11% higher salary due to their affiliation with the BSA.

There are numerous other instances of the BSA receiving special treatment by the government. So once that stops, I couldn't care less if the BSA wants to be a bigoted organization.

 

[KevinKohler]

All of this is because BSA is being run by Mormons.

 

[ChuckBerry]

Monopolized? Have there been any other organizations that have petitioned the government for similar benefits and been denied?

Boy Scouts builds the self-reliance and personal character that law enforcement and the military need for discipline and leadership, essential elements of both careers.

The summary quote in the OP article says it best: For decades, some of our most trusted institutions -- from schools, camps and sports leagues to correctional facilities, foster care agencies and religious groups -- have inadvertently enabled child molesters at the expense of victims. While leaders in many youth-serving organizations have confronted the abuse problem head-on, others routinely erred on the side of molesters, ignored the extent of abuse in their ranks, hid abuse from authorities and misled the public. Why? To protect the good work of their organizations. They lost their perspective on where organizational protection ends and child protection begins. Let me also add that it is only in recent years that child molestation became a hot burner front page issue in the public consciousness. We all suffered from a collective amnesia at that time, decades ago, when avoiding the issue and shuffling around offenders was preferable to the very public scandal that would ensue.

 

[rocket88]

Yeah, how dare there be a private organization that doesn't 100% accept homosexuals/homosexuality.

They have every right to take whatever stand they want. And the public has the right not to join that organization if they don't like it.

 

[rocket88]

I like the Boy Scouts. What's not to like about teaching little boys:



But I don't like their ban on GLBT people serving as leaders and even worse, their ban on GLBT children being a boy scout.

Now we learn that the Boy Scouts have engaged in a massive cover up a la Penn State of sexual predators among their leaders.

There comes a time when hypocrisy, bigotry and irrationality must end. The Scouts must fully disclose their files on sexual predators and they must end their ban on GLBT people as members and leaders, or they risk becoming such an anachronism that they'll be irrelevant to the lives of American youth.

A sexual predator is not a GLBT person, not even if they prefer a same-sex child to harm. Any adult who prefers sexual contact with a child rather than an adult has his or her own demented sexual orientation -- and is a threat to kids. The Boy Scouts need to answer their clue phone before it's too late.

Boy Scouts of America in struggle to defend policies, image: A Closer Look | cleveland.com

I struggled with allowing my son to become a Cub Scout. In the end, the Boy Scout organization at our church does not follow the ban on gays, because we disagree with it. I believe the Council here also eschews that ban.

 

[Pinkie]

I struggled with allowing my son to become a Cub Scout. In the end, the Boy Scout organization at our church does not follow the ban on gays, because we disagree with it. I believe the Council here also eschews that ban.

I'm so pleased to hear this, and I hope it happens more. That was my other objection -- I could not bless a group whose goals included teaching bigotry to my child.

 

[joko104]

Individual churches also disregard even its own church doctrines for individuals.

A very churchy Bi (female) I know very well finally felt she had to go on record to her fellow members of the church she had been in all her life. She taught Sunday school, worked the nursery, attended Bible studies and sang in the choir. At a Bible study she openly "came out," though most people sort of already knew. She was seen as the perfect young woman, sinless, perfect behavior always. Super popular in the church and even community. She said it was one of the hardest things she ever did in her life.

The whole group rushed and gave her a massive group hug, with the leader saying "You must know that we love you anyway."

After it settled down, that leader (very wise) said, "No, I really did not mean that. That's not true. We have alway loved you and always will. There is no 'anyway' to it."

Yet that Church itself still technically has a harsh doctrine against homosexuality and bisexuality.

This should surprise no one. Nearly every church as a doctrine against divorce, against adultery, against living together in a sexual relationship outside of marriage etc - and I know of none that ever removed a member because of it though fully known.

There is no "anyway" in real love, is there?

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I agree private organizations should be able to do what they want, BUT the BSA gets special treatment by the federal government. For example, they get access to our military bases for their jamborees for the whopping price of $1.

Local and federal government entities have tens of thousands of volunteer positions available to those in the BSA's explorer program that are not available to other BSA-type organizations.When I was 14 I had an awesome volunteer job at my city zoo as helper for their veterinarian. That was an Explorer position. Such positions are also common in law enforcement and fire departments. It is great for building real world experience at a young age. But once again, such positions are monopolized by the BSA's Explorer program.

If you are an Eagle Scout and enlist in the military you get to bypass the rank of E-1 (Private in the Army). So Eagle Scouts get to start their career out with an 11% higher salary due to their affiliation with the BSA.

There are numerous other instances of the BSA receiving special treatment by the government. So once that stops, I couldn't care less if the BSA wants to be a bigoted organization.

I have no reason to doubt these so called "benefits" you assert the BSA having. As for the Eagle Scout enlisting, I don't have an issue with that as long as the Army feels that it is helpful life experience as preparation to going into the military. As I understand it, people with needed skills can often bypass a number of ranks when the join the military, so there is a logical precedent.

I think the skills they learn are helpful to society, so I don't see a big issue here.

 

[Peter Grimm]

There are many moral belief systems that hold homosexuality to be wrong.

Several religions, for example, teach that homosexuality is a sin. If an organization like the Boy Scouts is simply following their religion's moral framework, can you rightly call them "bigoted?"

 

[Pinkie]

Of course the bigotry inherent in the Boy Scouts' POV upsets me very much, but equally upsetting to me is this error in thinking so many people have, that a GLBT person is the likeliest sexual predator among them. That just is not true.

The likeliest sexual predator is the person you'd last expect, the one who's "so good with kids", the one who insinuates himself or herself into a position in which adults trust them to be alone with children, and this is almost always someone who is perceived as heterosexual, often even married with kids of their own. People with extremely deviant, despised sexual desires go to extreme lengths to gain the trust they need to fulfill them.

I'm not advocating for paranoia; I'm advocating for reality-based safety measures.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

So what's the alternative? There isn't one in our area - it's boy scouts or nothing . . . and my son wanted to join so we signed him up. There are no alternatives in this area.

But if people are that bothered why not create something that kids can participate in that won't be so restrictive or stringent?

 

[Ikari]

I'm so pleased to hear this, and I hope it happens more. That was my other objection -- I could not bless a group whose goals included teaching bigotry to my child.

There is likely higher probability of the BSoA allowing in gay kids than there it is for them to allow in atheist kids.

 

[Connery]

I like the Boy Scouts. What's not to like about teaching little boys:



But I don't like their ban on GLBT people serving as leaders and even worse, their ban on GLBT children being a boy scout.

Now we learn that the Boy Scouts have engaged in a massive cover up a la Penn State of sexual predators among their leaders.

There comes a time when hypocrisy, bigotry and irrationality must end. The Scouts must fully disclose their files on sexual predators and they must end their ban on GLBT people as members and leaders, or they risk becoming such an anachronism that they'll be irrelevant to the lives of American youth.

A sexual predator is not a GLBT person, not even if they prefer a same-sex child to harm. Any adult who prefers sexual contact with a child rather than an adult has his or her own demented sexual orientation -- and is a threat to kids. The Boy Scouts need to answer their clue phone before it's too late.

Boy Scouts of America in struggle to defend policies, image: A Closer Look | cleveland.com

My boy just joined Tiger Cubs(Cub scouts) they were very up front about this issue with the parents and stated they were an "accepting" organization in my area. In Tiger Cubs the parent has to be with the boy at all times due to age. It will give me a chance to see how they operate and if there are any change from when I was a scout.

 

[Pinkie]

There is likely higher probability of the BSoA allowing in gay kids than there it is for them to allow in atheist kids.

Humm, I should be outraged by this but I'm not. Not sure I understand why -- I guess I think atheism in children must be taught by their parents, and while these beliefs deserve to be honored, they don't hold the same value for me as a child's sexual orientation, which is (probably) inborn.

It could be my age, but I assume most atheists have arrived at their non-belief after a certain amount of life experience and reflection, thus, not as children.

 

[rocket88]

There are many moral belief systems that hold homosexuality to be wrong.

Several religions, for example, teach that homosexuality is a sin. If an organization like the Boy Scouts is simply following their religion's moral framework, can you rightly call them "bigoted?"

The Boy Scouts don't have a religion. The closest they come is that they generally think that there's probably a God.

 

[Pinkie]

My boy just joined Tiger Cubs(Cub scouts) they were very up front about this issue with the parents and stated they were an "accepting" organization in my area. In Tiger Cubs the parent has to be with the boy at all times due to age. It will give me a chance to see how they operate and if there are any change from when I was a scout.

Sounds like a plan, Connery.

 

[Pinkie]

So what's the alternative? There isn't one in our area - it's boy scouts or nothing . . . and my son wanted to join so we signed him up. There are no alternatives in this area.

But if people are that bothered why not create something that kids can participate in that won't be so restrictive or stringent?

Yet another reason the Boy Scouts need to reform.

 

[Pinkie]

There are many moral belief systems that hold homosexuality to be wrong.

Several religions, for example, teach that homosexuality is a sin. If an organization like the Boy Scouts is simply following their religion's moral framework, can you rightly call them "bigoted?"

You are not picking up what I'm putting down: it's a HUGE error in thinking to suspect all GLBT people of sexually abusing children and to suspect no heterosexual people of doing so. I'd call falling victim to a predator a far worse fate than being exposed to bigoted ideas, except that these go hand in hand.

Since the Boy Scouts have a terrible history of allowing sexual predators to move from troop to troop, discouraging victims from making police reports, etc., they have done BOTH, and IMO, they continue to do so based on those same errors in thinking.

What a religion's dogma may be on homosexuality does not automatically cause this same degree of harm (apart from causing GLBT teens to be depressed), because the church does not have, as its stated goal, the same non-parent alone time with kids.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Yet another reason the Boy Scouts need to reform.

Honestly - I'd like something that both my sons and daughter can all join so they can do stuff together sometimes even though they're different ages.

I don't like the gender divide - or the drama that goes along with the organization in general. It bars some children from attending. I also don't like how you must get your kids involved early or else they are so behind and they can't progress.

I don't think reforming them is going to take care of anything - I think that another organize needs to form that caters to modern interests and needs. You have to admit that a lot of what they do is just outright old fashioned - on top of everything else.

 

[Ikari]

Humm, I should be outraged by this but I'm not. Not sure I understand why

Likely it's the emotion you attach to each side. It's the same amount of discrimination and bias, just against different groups. Atheist parents likely have "atheist" kids, or at the very least kids not brought up and indoctrinated in a church and thus not saying quite the same things as others. Whatever, I suppose peeps want for their own and care not for others.

 

[Peter Grimm]

The Boy Scouts don't have a religion. The closest they come is that they generally think that there's probably a God.

Are you sure?

 

[Peter Grimm]

So your issue isn't with the way the Boy Scouts treat homosexuality, it's that you feel they don't monitor their heterosexual scout leaders well enough to ensure the safety of the kids?

In that case, I agree with you. Anyone who is around kids for a living needs to be background tested and monitored, regardless of their sexual orientation.

You are not picking up what I'm putting down: it's a HUGE error in thinking to suspect all GLBT people of sexually abusing children and to suspect no heterosexual people of doing so. I'd call falling victim to a predator a far worse fate than being exposed to bigoted ideas, except that these go hand in hand.

Since the Boy Scouts have a terrible history of allowing sexual predators to move from troop to troop, discouraging victims from making police reports, etc., they have done BOTH, and IMO, they continue to do so based on those same errors in thinking.

What a religion's dogma may be on homosexuality does not automatically cause this same degree of harm (apart from causing GLBT teens to be depressed), because the church does not have, as its stated goal, the same non-parent alone time with kids.