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The Bible Survived Attempts to Alter Its Message...

Daisy

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https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/bible-changed-or-tampered/
 
Elora said:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/bible-changed-or-tampered/
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea how many versions of the bible there are since the 500CE? The fact that you think that your JW version is correct despite there being more than 50 other versions that are equally correct or incorrect is an example of confirmation bias.


Why Are There So Many Different Versions of the Bible?

One of the reasons we see different versions of the Bible is because of the number of manuscripts available. Another reason is because over time the English language has changed dramatically. English speakers have been blessed with many translations and versions of the full Bible. But what about...
www.christianity.com
 
lol...do you realize the article is not about my version of the Bible but ALL versions...obviously you don't because obviously you didn't read it...
 
Elora said:
lol...do you realize the article is not about my version of the Bible but ALL versions...obviously you don't because obviously you didn't read it...
Click to expand...
The message of the Bible has been very altered by the various Christian sects. Not even the 4 gospels are the same. The Catholic vs the protestant version is very different.

Do you really think that your JW version is the same as the King James version from 1980 or 1800?
 
Which version?
 
Again...this thread is NOT about my version...
 
Questerr said:
Considering we have zero original manuscripts, there’s no way to know how much it has been altered.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't matter if it was altered here or there, it's not infallible to begin with.

With respect to Prophesy, like Daniel and Isaiah, most of those are straight ahead, it's not hard to come up with, it should be had with what they were doing (bringing in the Messiah).

When you do a thing for the first time, you'll never replicate the work, just so, we may ask, was the inspiration in the original text, or the translation?

I like the King James, although the original King James is updated, or you couldn't read it.

It stands as a pillar of the language.
 
Tlrmln said:
How would you know that? How could anyone?
Click to expand...


The main message in the Bible has remained the same. I'm talking about the reputable, mainstream ones that are used by scholars.
UNLESS we're talking of cults and other kinds of "bibles" - like the Jehovah' Witnesses Bible (NWT) - that had blatantly made changes to tailor it to the message they want to preach.


#2 Trinity (Triune God)
#3 JW changes phrase of Genesis 1
#4 False Teaching: Soul Dies With Physical Body; Adam and Eve
#5 Continuation Soul Dies With Physical Body; Jesus is God (Omnipresence)
#13 “Believing In Jesus Christ” – what it means
#18 JW changes John 1:1 and contradicts Isaiah 43:10
#21 Why is it dangerous?
# 24 Wasn't Jesus called a leader of a cult?/Comparison to altering Harry Potter

#27, 28, 29, 30 Jesus Is The Archangel Michael
#40 Why don't JW celebrate Christmas?
#40 Continuation Jesus is the Archangel Michael
#41, 42, 43 Why Don't Jehovah's Witnesses Celebrate Christmas?
#44 Addendum: Jesus Christ Is The Archangel Michael


#45 Article (9 Things You Should Know About JW) – thanks to LittleNipper
#46 10 Questions To Ask a JW (thanks to LittleNipper)
#50 Video – JW misquoting Greek scholar, Julius Mantey
#51 Explanation of the Spirit (thanks to Logicman)
#57 Challenge Question repeated to Elora (which has been avoided in another thread).
#58 Rebuttal
#61, 65, 66 No Bodily Resurrection
#71 Rebuttal of LittleNipper to JW

The False Teachings Of The Jehovah's Witnesses

The organization that calls itself, “Jehovah's Witnesses,” is just one among many religions that teach false teachings, and would not have merited an in-depth topic about it .....however, it is one of the most actively tenacious proselytizers, using the name of Christianity. In that regard, it...
debatepolitics.com
 
Elora said:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/bible-changed-or-tampered/
Click to expand...


Yes, indeed!
The Bible has survived many, many attempts to alter its message. And, it will continue to survive and endure.


Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.


Proverbs 30
5 Every word of God is [c]pure;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
6 Do not add to His words
Or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.



Galatians 1

Distortion of the Gospel​

6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel,
7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be [d]accursed!
9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be [e]accursed!



Matthew 15
14 Leave them alone; they are blind guides of blind people. And if a person who is blind guides another who is blind, both will fall into a pit.”



Revelation 22
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
 
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You missed the point.
 
What is interesting is that the JW's insist that the BIble has resisted the altering of it's message,

However, the message that the JW's claim the bible says is different that the message that the Catholics say it says, and it's different than the message the Prostestants say it says.
 
What's interesting is that the truth can be found, regardless of what translation of the Bible is used...the problem with some people's interpretations is they fail to follow the guidelines of accurate understanding...one must gather together all the scriptures germane to the subject being discussed...context must also be considered...then and only then, when all the scriptures on any given matter are in harmony with one another, have you arrived at the correct understanding...for example...the trinity...

Trinitarians rely basically on John 1:1, John 10:30, and Matthew 28:19 to support their doctrine but ignore all the other numerous scriptures which support the fact that the Father and Son are 2 separate beings...even John 10:30, they fail to consider the context...Jesus was talking about the 2 being one in union, with the same goals in mind, not the same being...that belief is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said...when interpreted correctly, no 2 scriptures are in contradiction with one another...

 
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It is all made up nonsense, no matter the interpretation. Your harmony claim has no basis at all. There is no single, objectively identifiable truth in the words of the bible.
 

Once again: there are no original copies of any of the books of the Bible. We have no way of knowing how they may have been altered.

Believing they haven't been altered is a position based entirely on faith, not evidence.
 
Questerr said:
Once again: there are no original copies of any of the books of the Bible. We have no way of knowing how they may have been altered.

Believing they haven't been altered is a position based entirely on faith, not evidence.
Click to expand...
Not 100% true.. When older copies of a book are missing what later copies have, it can be concluded that the suddenly appearing verse had been added
 
RAMOSS said:
Not 100% true.. When older copies of a book are missing what later copies have, it can be concluded that the suddenly appearing verse had been added
Click to expand...

The earliest copies of any Biblical texts we have are fragmentary pieces written many decades after the originals.
 
Questerr said:
The earliest copies of any Biblical texts we have are fragmentary pieces written many decades after the originals.
Click to expand...
Yet , we can be sure that mark 16:9-20 was added later
 

Do they all believe the Abrahamic God is the Creator? That, we are made in the image of God?
Do they all believe the history given in the Old Testament? Why mankind is in need of a Messiah?

Do they all believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah?
That Jesus Christ died for our sins?
That anyone who has faith in Christ will be saved?
Do they all believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and the last judgment?
 

The JW translation isn't in harmony with a lot of verses. That's the problem!

Like the false teachings that there is no hell, inspite of the fact that the threat of hell and eternal suffering has been vividly described in some verses.
Like as if, God just scare people for nothing! That, He gives idle and worthless threats! Which can also mean, His promises are also worthless!

You guys say, you can't imagine a merciful God torturing people for eternity. But, do you understand why God has given all those graphic descriptions?
Here:


Hebrews 10

Christ or Judgment​

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.


If we keep sinning wilfully, there won't be a second Messiah to die for our sins! Thus God gives them the terrifying graphic descriptions of what to expect!

When you preach and REASSURE people that there is no eterbal punishment in hell, you're undermining the purpose of God!
You are preaching something that is contrary to what God says!


Furthermore, God has out a dire warning for people who adds or removes anything from the Book........................ and that includes His message about eternal, conscious sufferings in hell!


This isn't only a warning. This is like a "promise!"

Revelation 22
8 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.




Elora, you guys are taking away the truth about eternal punishment in hell with your false teachings. You're like......................... working for the devil!
Are you willing to sacrifice your own eternal life - to have your name removed from the tree of life - for the arrogance (pride) that JW keeps exhibiting in this worldly life, by undermining what God says?
Is that worth it?




In other words, your "bleeding hearts," are bleeding for the wrong reasons!
You cry for wilfull sinning on a TEMPORARY life on earth.............................. and yet, you ignore the ETERNAL consequence that awaits the unsaved.


God has HIS OWN REASONS for doing things the way He does!
It's not for you mere mortals to judge what is "merciful," or not, in His ways!

Humility in spirit. We have to humbly accept what God says.
 
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Lol - and you rely on something so juvenile, like this: "If Jesus is God, how can Jesus pray to Himself?"
Which only shows, you guys don't even understand why GOD came as The SON!

You've got only a handful of arguments - and they've all been busted!

No. That's not all Trinitarians rely on.

These are the reasons why we believe in the Triune God.

A recap of most reasons given

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

Isaiah 40 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Mark 13 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
debatepolitics.com



Lol - even if you "gather together all the scriptures germane to the subject" of the Trinity - you won't understand anything................................................ if you don't read them!
That's just simple logic.
 
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Based on posts you've made before - I have the impression that you hardly know what you're talking about here.
Let me give you an example of a little, simple.............. "gathering together."
Like, JOHN 1. It strings along some verses.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.





Then, you read Isaiah 55.

Isaiah 55
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it produce and sprout,
And providing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;

11 So will My word be which goes out of My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it.



John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.


GOD SPOKE (WORD) creation into existence.




John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


Revelations 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”




Thus, they are all consistent to the LITERAL meaning of this:



John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
 
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Elora said:
Trinitarians rely basically on John 1:1, John 10:30, and Matthew 28:19 to support their doctrine but ignore all the other numerous scriptures which support the fact that the Father and Son are 2 separate beings.
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
You know that is a lie......................................... after all, you've been in the other thread many times, and you know it gives so many verses in the Scriptures supporting the Trinity.

Post #232, 233
Recap of resasons

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

Isaiah 40 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Mark 13 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
debatepolitics.com


Lol - I can't even print all verses, logic and explanations given in the Trinity thread because they're so many that I have to make two posts!
Ignoring the other verses that support the Triune God, and instead deceiving others that Trinitarians rely basically on just 3 verses to support their doctrine, is disingenuous.




Why is it easy for someone who profess to preach the "truth" of the Bible, to end up telling a blatant lie?
You know why?


1 Timothy 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3 who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.


You'll know them by their fruits.


Matthew 7
5 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.


A doctrine (tree) that's based on a corrupted Bible is basically grounded on............................. lies.


21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
 
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