The bi-partisan effort to take down Nina Turner

[Dans La Lune]

If this election taught us anything it's that, just like republicans, centrist blue maga Dems do not want dark money out of politics and are perfectly fine with foreign countries buying house seats.

It's funny, moderate Dems accuse us of empowering Trump, yet it's moderate Dems who ultimately allow Republicans to carry out their agenda, and are CLOSEST in policy to the right-wing. Voting rights, healthcare, money in politics, minimum wage suppression, climate policy, infrastructure. Come at me, Greenbeard, Linc, and Napolean. Lets go down the list of what moderate Dems and Republicans agree on. It's a surprising amount.

Moderate Durr-Dum-Dems first response is to side with Republicans, or find an excuse as to why they can't act. The people voting in the midterms will take those excuses and throw them in the trash.

 

[Dans La Lune]

By the way, does anyone think Hillary Clinton of James Clyburn give a flying **** about Shontel Brown? The corporate money coalesced around her so that's where they put their endorsement. It was an anti-Nina effort, not a pro-Shontel movement. Shontel's policy platform is that she kinda knows Marcia Fudge.

 

[j brown's body]

By the way, does anyone think Hillary Clinton of James Clyburn give a flying **** about Shontel Brown? The corporate money coalesced around her so that's where they put their endorsement. It was an anti-Nina effort, not a pro-Shontel movement. Shontel's policy platform is that she kinda knows Marcia Fudge.

Its kind of a wash.Their voting records will be about the same. Brown seems like more likely to win friends and influence people.

I mean while bomb throwers like Turner are very appealing. AOC is just as progressive, but is more effective, more listened to than Turner would be because AOC recognizes there is a certain amount of going along to get along.

 

[Greenbeard]

Oh come on... whose blocking policy? Those on the left in the party or those on the right in the party?

In case I haven't been clear, I'm annoyed by those, allegedly on the same side of the political spectrum, whose apathy or ambivalence leaves us with GOP majorities or incredibly thin (1-2 vote) Dem majorities that make kingmakers of Dems from Trump +40 geographies.

So a Republican-inspired healthcare plan is the best the Dems have had to offer in the past 30 years.

Helping tens of millions of Americans get health care isn't as sexy as shitposting, no doubt. But everyone's got priorities.

 

[Dans La Lune]

In case I haven't been clear, I'm annoyed by those, allegedly on the same side of the political spectrum, whose apathy or ambivalence leaves us with GOP majorities or incredibly thin (1-2 vote) Dem majorities that make kingmakers of Dems from Trump +40 geographies.

When progressives vote in favor of Dems (almost always), progressive seek to hold them accountable to their promises. And that's what you TRULY hate -- accountability. Progressives force the issue to the forefront (minimum wage, climate change, healthcare, student debt, immigration, police reform, etc.), get moderate Dems to begrudgingly agree to do SOMETHING during the campaign. Then when they don't follow through and get HAMMERED in the midterms or in the general election, you blame again progressives. Look, pal, you're going to blame us either way for your failures, so just get on with it and pass the buck.

Helping tens of millions of Americans get health care isn't as sexy as shitposting, no doubt. But everyone's got priorities.

How many people go backrupt each year because Dems -- with uber-majorities in the House and Senate -- couldn't do anything but pass Republican healthcare reform? By the way, who was to blame when Republicans swept the House and Senate in 2010? Bernie Sanders?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Its kind of a wash.Their voting records will be about the same. Brown seems like more likely to win friends and influence people.

Look at the friends she's already won. Center-right moderates and ultra-nationalists.

 

[Craig234]

I mean while bomb throwers like Turner are very appealing. AOC is just as progressive, but is more effective, more listened to than Turner would be because AOC recognizes there is a certain amount of going along to get along.

That's rich coming from supporting the side of the most toxic Democrat in politics, Hillary Clinton.

 

[Surrealistik]

In case I haven't been clear, I'm annoyed by those, allegedly on the same side of the political spectrum, whose apathy or ambivalence leaves us with GOP majorities or incredibly thin (1-2 vote) Dem majorities that make kingmakers of Dems from Trump +40 geographies.

Ah yes, only a devout neolib shill like you would hilariously try to spin the sandbagging stonewall of moderate Democrats in districts where their constituents overwhelmingly support the changes they block as actually being the fault and problem of progressives and not moderate Dems; nevermind that they were literally paid off by the US Chamber of Commerce to do more damage to the party's legislative efforts and chances of winning down-ballot than the left wing of the party ever will under the strained guise of and cult like devotion to 'bipartisanship' ( https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...inema-with-campaign-contributions-2021-04-15/ ). What an absolute joke; you're a living self-satire.

So a Republican-inspired healthcare plan is the best the Dems have had to offer in the past 30 years.

Lol, exactly; and not merely Republican inspired, the damn thing was literally sourced from the GOP and its think tanks, and ended up being a big health insurance industry subsidy above all.

Democrats ala Lieberman who was a notorious shill of the health insurance industry also killed the public option, and not a Democrat, during a time when the moderates domineered the party without exception, bothered to fight for it: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/lieberman-obama-never-pre_n_399355

 

[Craig234]

Article on the election. One important point: this was an open primary allowing Republicans to vote for the Democratic nominee, and Republicans like Bill Kristol fought for Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary for Brown.

Nina Turner’s Loss Is Oligarchy’s Gain

Turner's defeat is a victory for an array of wealthy individuals and corporations alarmed at her willingness to challenge such corporate powerhouses as Big Pharma, insurance firms and the fossil-fuel industry.

www.commondreams.org

 

[Dans La Lune]

Article on the election. One important point: this was an open primary allowing Republicans to vote for the Democratic nominee, and Republicans like Bill Kristol fought for Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary for Brown.

Nina Turner’s Loss Is Oligarchy’s Gain

Turner's defeat is a victory for an array of wealthy individuals and corporations alarmed at her willingness to challenge such corporate powerhouses as Big Pharma, insurance firms and the fossil-fuel industry.

www.commondreams.org

Not just Bill Kristol (who you'd naturally expect to supper a Hillary/Biden candidate at this point), but some of Trump's financial backers threw their hat in the ring to stop Nina. Those of virtue are often defined by those who hate them.

 

[Surrealistik]

Article on the election. One important point: this was an open primary allowing Republicans to vote for the Democratic nominee, and Republicans like Bill Kristol fought for Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary for Brown.

Nina Turner’s Loss Is Oligarchy’s Gain

Turner's defeat is a victory for an array of wealthy individuals and corporations alarmed at her willingness to challenge such corporate powerhouses as Big Pharma, insurance firms and the fossil-fuel industry.

www.commondreams.org

Nice, so Shontel was essentially elected on the wings of Israel and Republicans.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat.

President Biden's infrastructure plan is coming along just fine.

In the Senate.

The biggest problem Biden has in getting this bill on his desk will be Democrats, more specifically, progressives like AOC and her "squad."

Pelosi has stated there won’t be an infrastructure bill vote unless the Senate also passes the more ambitious package, too, meaning the far more extravagant strictly partisan $3.5 trillion spending package. The progressives in the House say the infrastructure bill doesn't go far enough, and the more far-reaching bill must accompany it. If not, Biden's infrastructure plan will not pass in the House.

Because of the progressives, Biden, the Democratic Party, and the American people could end up with nothing.

It wouldn't be the first time the progressives caused a major disaster for the American people.

Bernie Sanders and his progressive followers were largely responsible for the Trump administration!

Newsweek reports, "Sanders supporters switched their allegiance to Donald Trump in large enough numbers last November to sway the election for the real estate billionaire, according to an analysis of voter data. 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.

"The impact of those votes was significant. In each of the three states that ultimately swung the election for Trump—Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania—Trump's margin of victory over Clinton was smaller than the number of Sanders voters who gave him their vote."

In Wisconsin 51,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Wisconsin by 22,000.

In Michigan 47,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Michigan by 10,000.

In Pennsylvania 116,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Pennsylvania.

Bernie Sanders voters helped Trump win and here's proof

Under the circumstances I don't believe the progressives deserve much loyalty from Americans. Congressional Democrats as a whole should strongly consider the wishes of the Democratic President.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

^And here come the brainwashed troll hordes to shitpost away about how they need to align WITH CONSERVATIVES against the Sanders "left" while contriving the Democrat party to be equivalent to "Americans" (as if out of the last 10 presidents 6 of them being Republican wasn't enough of a goddamn hint of how despised your ****ing political party is ACROSS the ****ING ENTIRE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, literally ACROSS
THE
BOARD)
The ****ing left hates you, the right hates you, and the TRUE centrists ****ing hate you too.
****
OFF

Pretty much affirming what I've always said. Centrist do-nothing dems hate the left more than they hate republicans while simultaneously demanding lock-step loyalty from the left.

As well as my earlier posts. I was warning people on here for years this was going to happen. I kicked and screamed about Hillary to no avail. If we don't get to the Republicans/Alt-Right before the conservative right-wing Democrats do, they're going to have us facing the ****ing wall. Seriously, if the left doesn't stop the infighting and finger-pointing, and unite WITH CONSERVATIVES immediately we are all going to be facing the wall.
Facing.
The.
WALL

 

[Surrealistik]

President Biden's infrastructure plan is coming along just fine.

In the Senate.

The biggest problem Biden has in getting this bill on his desk will be Democrats, more specifically, progressives like AOC and her "squad."

Pelosi has stated there won’t be an infrastructure bill vote unless the Senate also passes the more ambitious package, too, meaning the far more extravagant strictly partisan $3.5 trillion spending package. The progressives in the House say the infrastructure bill doesn't go far enough, and the more far-reaching bill must accompany it. If not, Biden's infrastructure plan will not pass in the House.

Because of the progressives, Biden, the Democratic Party, and the American people could end up with nothing.

It wouldn't be the first time the progressives caused a major disaster for the American people.

Bernie Sanders and his progressive followers were largely responsible for the Trump administration!

Newsweek reports, "Sanders supporters switched their allegiance to Donald Trump in large enough numbers last November to sway the election for the real estate billionaire, according to an analysis of voter data. 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.

"The impact of those votes was significant. In each of the three states that ultimately swung the election for Trump—Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania—Trump's margin of victory over Clinton was smaller than the number of Sanders voters who gave him their vote."

In Wisconsin 51,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Wisconsin by 22,000.

In Michigan 47,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Michigan by 10,000.

In Pennsylvania 116,000 Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Trump won Pennsylvania.

Bernie Sanders voters helped Trump win and here's proof

Under the circumstances I don't believe the progressives deserve much loyalty from Americans. Congressional Democrats as a whole should strongly consider the wishes of the Democratic President.

First of all, what on earth does the progressive stance against this unacceptably compromised infrastructure bill have to do with Shontel winning on the back pro-Israel and GOP PACs and donor money despite facing a felony probe over tens of millions in self-dealing corruption and abuse of her position as a Cuyahoga County councilmember?

Second, there's no guarantees whatsoever that even if AOC and the Squad folded that Republicans would ultimately vote on the infrastructure bill. In fact, if history is any guide whatsoever, this is more likely to fall flat at the hands of Republicans like every other one of Manchin's fruitless, naïve and above all ridiculous attempts at bipartisanship which the US Chamber of Commerce bathes him and Sinema in money to pursue.

Third, the infrastructure bill is actually terrible, involves mass privatization of infrastructure and probably should not be made law in the first place, particularly given that this is a reimagined Trump plan that Democrats violently opposed when the orange moron was in office: https://prospect.org/politics/bipartisan-senate-infrastructure-plan-privatization-asset-recycling/

Fourth, where were you and where was your outrage when Manchin and Sinema cockblocked literally every piece of substantive Democrat legislation under the sun, including things that their constituents supported in the majority? Are only they allowed to obstruct the Democratic agenda in favour of their principles? Where was your hyperbolic outcry regarding cockblocked minimum wage increases, or substantially diluted COVID relief, or the critical Voting Rights Act which has overwhelming popularity nationwide, including among Republicans? Factually moderates like Manchin and Sinema have thus far done far more harm to the Dem agenda and its prospects of reelection than every progressive combined.

Lastly, we've already dealt with your tiresome historical revisionism and asides RE: 2016; get some new material.

 

[ultmd]

I was demonstrating I am not a partisan cultist of personality,

..really? You thought talking about M4M4A would separate you from the nutcases? Well, that failed for you, didn't it?

Pot, meet kettle

...you're deflecting (again). What does Hillary Clinton have to do with YOUR reliance on empty-headed, fact-free conspiracy theories?

Sorry, but your attempts at deflection aside, the FACT still remains that your arguments are filled with empty-headed conspiracy theory drivel.

I dunno, maybe you should ask them

So, yet ANOTHER simple question that you can't answer, huh?

I recommend that you re-read my remarks in this thread, and try to give a more thoughtful response next time.

Why bother...?

...Why bother with intelligent, factual or thoughtful arguments in defense of your views?

Really?

Because being a liberal automatically makes you the almighty and infallible "intelligent, rational and educated?"

More "logic" from you. A pattern is clearly developing.

But it's really not ideological. Actually, what makes people like me more "intelligent, rational and educated" than people like you is....well...the fact that we ARE more intelligent, rational and educated that people like you. Ideology has little to do with it.

This is why nobody ****ing likes you people,

...only "nobodies" like you. But why would someone like me care what you and your ilk think? Answer: we don't...in fact, "nobody" does. LOL

you act all holier-and-mightier-than-thou

Obviously, deep down, people like you really look up to people like me. Thus the emotional attacks and bat-crap crazy conspiracy accusations, etc.

You attempt, and fail, to rehabilitate Republican war criminals like George W. Bush and the Cheneys, apologize for police brutality, military imperialism and racists that voted for Trump

...now that's funny! First, I'm a Clintonite. And now, I'm a GOPer, huh?

So...in other words, you can't rebut or defend your views with FACTS or objective DATA, so you just make up crazy, fact-free stuff that you KNOW you can't back up. As I've been saying, this what uneducated ideologues always do. The above gibberish is about as moronic as it gets around here.

by attributing the defeat of Clinton to Bernie supporters

The data is the data. What people like you wish to believe means nothing to people like me. Your feelings mean nothing. Sorry.

, while ignoring the literal "basket of deplorables" THAT PUT TRUMP IN OFFICE IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE,

Again, this is just MORONICALLY stupid of you. The FACT is that those voters didn't show up in 2020 (or vote for Trump) any more than 2016. Trump earned roughly the same number of votes (and a Lower % of the total vote) as Romney in 2012. The numbers show that Clinton lost because African-American turnout fell in cities like Milwaukee, Philly and Detroit...and because 5% of the public voted 3rd party in 2020, compared to just 1% in 2016.

None of this is up for debate. It's all just raw data. Your feelings don't matter.

You sure you want to do this?

What is it that you think you're doing? If your goal is to debate your ignorant feelings, I have no interest.

But, surely, you don't want to debate the FACTS with me, do you?