• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The absolute insane Idea that the rights president knows more then the CIA

jbander

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
9,244
Reaction score
1,045
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.
 

beerftw

proud ammosexual
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
18,753
Reaction score
5,450
Location
kekistan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

The president does not know more than the cia, but the cia is very well known to lie, spending most of it's carreer lying to the american people only to be shown after foia kicks in and things get declassified.


However in this case the argument for the cia lying about this has no real grounds for them to lie, however the president would have many reasons to cover for saudi arabia, not just for his own believe but the entire govt in general considers them an extremely strategic ally, and the decision to cover this up was probably already in motion before trump ever heard of it. It is for the same reason america let's turkey get away with stuff we would let no one else get away with, there is a strategic value and human rights/justice take a back seat to strategic value in american foreign policy.
 

jbander

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
9,244
Reaction score
1,045
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The president does not know more than the cia, but the cia is very well known to lie, spending most of it's carreer lying to the american people only to be shown after foia kicks in and things get declassified.


However in this case the argument for the cia lying about this has no real grounds for them to lie, however the president would have many reasons to cover for saudi arabia, not just for his own believe but the entire govt in general considers them an extremely strategic ally, and the decision to cover this up was probably already in motion before trump ever heard of it. It is for the same reason America let's turkey get away with stuff we would let no one else get away with, there is a strategic value and human rights/justice take a back seat to strategic value in american foreign policy.
Corporate interests are in no way strategic value. By the way the cia lies for the government not for some arbitrary reason . Bringing that up in this situation is suggesting they lie against the best interest of this country policy and that doesn't happen. The lie to the people, not to grind a ax as this maniac is suggesting. I have a question why do you call yourself a socialist. No trick question just interested.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The problem here is that Turkey has made this basically a "You pick either her, or me" situation, and who wants to be with Turkey as gross as they are now?
 

beerftw

proud ammosexual
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
18,753
Reaction score
5,450
Location
kekistan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Corporate interests are in no way strategic value. By the way the cia lies for the government not for some arbitrary reason . Bringing that up in this situation is suggesting they lie against the best interest of this country policy and that doesn't happen. The lie to the people, not to grind a ax as this maniac is suggesting. I have a question why do you call yourself a socialist. No trick question just interested.

I never said they lie against the interest of the country but rather they lie, I know it is usually to protect interests, like for example the contra rebels the cia lied in order to protect them.

Corporate interests have little to do with saudi arabia other than arms sales, saudi was deemed a top ally furing and after ww2 because of their oil, and even as oil dependance becomes less, they are a key influence on the middle east and oil production and prices, the us will not let them fall even if it means ignoring their humans rights abuses.
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,590
Reaction score
7,673
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The problem here is that Turkey has made this basically a "You pick either her, or me" situation, and who wants to be with Turkey as gross as they are now?

If Americans want to see our Intelligence Agency Assessments through the prism of being with or not Turkey then we are even dumber than I think we are. Give me a break for God sake.

You have the lies for his self aggrandizing purposes President vs CIA. Sorry, Bozo the President loses that one....easily except for his loyal base and frankly that crowd is working its way toward "who cares" status.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
If Americans want to see our Intelligence Agency Assessments through the prism of being with or not Turkey then we are even dumber than I think we are. Give me a break for God sake.

You have the lies for his self aggrandizing purposes President vs CIA. Sorry, Bozo the President loses that one....easily except for his loyal base and frankly that crowd is working its way toward "who cares" status.

Trumpity-Trump-Trump Trump

Trump will be gone soon.

Then What?

SHALLOW
 
Last edited:

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,590
Reaction score
7,673
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Trumpity-Trump-Trump Trump

Trump will be gone soon.

Then What?

Hey never mind Grow up...I am not the guy trying to make the talking points Pro-Turkey v Against Turkey as opposed to what it is for Americans, CIA Assessment v Bozo the President which happens to be the same thing it is on Russia Election Interference and similar to Military/Scientific Assessment v Bozo the President on Climate Change.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Hey never mind Grow up...I am not the guy trying to make the talking points Pro-Turkey v Against Turkey as opposed to what it is for Americans, CIA Assessment v Bozo the President which happens to be the same thing it is on Russia Election Interference and similar to Military/Scientific Assessment v Bozo the President on Climate Change.

This obsession with Trump reminds me a lot of how people loved the Jerry Springer Show, because in the interim they can forget how badly they suck at life.
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,590
Reaction score
7,673
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This obsession with Trump reminds me a lot of how people loved the Jerry Springer Show, because in the interim they can forget how badly they suck at life.

Obsession with Trump has nothing to do with it. Your argument that this is an issue of Pro-Turkey v Anti-Turkey for Americans is absurd. That simple enough for you?

You are simply trying to deflect from the very real phenomenon of a know-nothing President fighting the Investigative and Research assets of his own government for his own self serving purposes I might add!
 
Last edited:

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
85,015
Reaction score
16,724
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

Trump covered up murder? From whom?
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Obsession with Trump has nothing to do with it. Your argument that this is an issue of Pro-Turkey v Anti-Turkey for Americans is absurd. That simple enough for you?

My argument is that Turkey has demanded that this be either we with are with Turkey and thus Russia and China and Iran...or we are with the Saudis.....

It did not have to be this way.

They demanded.
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,590
Reaction score
7,673
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
My argument is that Turkey has demanded that this be either we with are with Turkey and thus Russia and China and Iran...or we are with the Saudis.....

It did not have to be this way.

They demanded.

Which even if true (which I question) does not change the fact that Americans don't give a rats behind about the issue within the context that you wish to present. Pro-Turkey v Anti-Turkey is a non-issue within the context of the discussion of this sniveling, weak, For Sale Sign on the Presidency President v his own Government Assessments.

In fact, Trump is willing to sell his Presidency cheaply...another clear sign that he is selling it for his own interests.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Which even if true (which I question) does not change the fact that Americans don't give a rats behind about the issue within the context that you wish to present. Pro-Turkey v Anti-Turkey is a non-issue within the context of the discussion of this sniveling, weak, For Sale Sign on the Presidency President v his own Government Assessments.

In fact, Trump is willing to sell his Presidency cheaply...another clear sign that he is selling it for his own interests.

Are you even capable of writing a post that is not focused on the very transitory figure of Trump, anymore?
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,590
Reaction score
7,673
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Are you even capable of writing a post that is not focused on the very transitory figure of Trump, anymore?

Are you even capable of resisting the inclination to defend Bozo the President at every turn regardless of the absurdity of your argument?
 

joko104

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
64,659
Reaction score
22,738
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

A Democrat who supports Iran? No surprise about that.
 

Xelor

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
10,257
Reaction score
4,161
Location
Washington, D.C.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The president does not know more than the cia, but the cia is very well known to lie, spending most of it's carreer lying to the american people only to be shown after foia kicks in and things get declassified.


However in this case the argument for the cia lying about this has no real grounds for them to lie, however the president would have many reasons to cover for saudi arabia, not just for his own believe but the entire govt in general considers them an extremely strategic ally, and the decision to cover this up was probably already in motion before trump ever heard of it. It is for the same reason america let's turkey get away with stuff we would let no one else get away with, there is a strategic value and human rights/justice take a back seat to strategic value in american foreign policy.
Red:
  • Of the assertions the CIA has made, please quantify the ratio of those that have been shown to be wrong/lies and those that have been shown to be right/true.
  • Of the declassified assertions the CIA has made, please quantify the ratio of those that have been shown to be wrong/lies and those that have been shown to be right/true.
I'm not denying that the CIA have misrepresented the truth or been mistaken in their assessments. There are obvious national security reasons, as well as CIA employee reasons, they've not told the public truth about some things they've done or concluded. I'm asking you to show that they've been so often wrong that it's logically rational to reject as inaccurate/invalid current public assertions the CIA makes.


Blue:
Yes. Indeed, it's the assertions of the current POTUS that are shown daily not to be factually and contextually true and or representationally faithful.


Pink:
There are grades of "get away with." MBR appears to have ordered and had thus performed a political assassination. Khashoggi was a Saudi citizen, so on some level, MBR was within his Saudi rights/privilege as the crown prince to do so for SA is a sovereign absolute monarchy. That said, its being so doesn't mean the US, or any other nation, must sit idly by and not express its disapprobation for such "bad behavior"by letting MBR, Scot free, get away with having ordered a political assassination of a US resident (or anyone), yet that's exactly what Trump is of a mind to do. This isn't a "punish or don't punish" matter; it's a "levy an appropriately natured punishment" matter.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,888
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

I haven't heard Trump say he knows more than the CIA, but it is certain that both Trump and the CIA know more than the media and their useful idiots. Of course, that doesn't stop those useful idiots from spouting their ignorant nonsense.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
25,621
Reaction score
22,290
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

What I would agree to is the asinine suggestion Trump made on knowing more himself than the CIA does on what happened with Khashoggi.

We have entered a new level of covering for Saudi Arabia, but that said Trump is not the first President to overlook plenty of things Saudi Arabia engages in throughout the region. Killing a Post columnist inside the Saudi Arabia consulate in Turkey just ups the game.

Oil is one reason but not the only reason why we have yet another entangling and hypocritical relationship with a foreign nation.

If we have anything to discuss it is the persistent tone, rhetoric and supportive actions Trump is willing to engage in that seemingly places governance as adversarial to the media. Which is a prerequisite for fascism.
 

bearpoker

aspiring cat lady
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
17,249
Reaction score
10,057
Location
Tennessee
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.

This is more of the same. He campaigned on the "fact" that he knows more than the generals. Are you surprised that he knows more than the CIA. He already said he believes Putin over them. Why shouldn't he believe MBS over them too? He's a salesman. For him diplomacy is just international customer service. The Saudis are really good customers so he treats them accordingly.
 

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
30,953
Reaction score
9,018
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What I would agree to is the asinine suggestion Trump made on knowing more himself than the CIA does on what happened with Khashoggi.

We have entered a new level of covering for Saudi Arabia, but that said Trump is not the first President to overlook plenty of things Saudi Arabia engages in throughout the region. Killing a Post columnist inside the Saudi Arabia consulate in Turkey just ups the game.

Oil is one reason but not the only reason why we have yet another entangling and hypocritical relationship with a foreign nation.

If we have anything to discuss it is the persistent tone, rhetoric and supportive actions Trump is willing to engage in that seemingly places governance as adversarial to the media. Which is a prerequisite for fascism.

Fascism or just the status quo?

obama_bow_1381505c.jpg


a5155995-181-bush-kisses-saudi-prince-4-15-09.png
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,555
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The president does not know more than the cia, but the cia is very well known to lie, spending most of it's carreer lying to the american people only to be shown after foia kicks in and things get declassified.

Let's put up Trump's lies vs CIAs lies any day. I bet he tops it.
 

Gaugingcatenate

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,331
Reaction score
1,939
Location
Formerly of the Southern USA, now permanently in t
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Him covering up the murder and the chopping up of this reporter, or him suggesting he knows more then the CIA on this ,is some more of his imagination insanity that he thinks he can get people to believe, only in the smallest anti American mind would support the killing and butchering of this Reporter , in Saudi Arabia own consulate. This puts him with a endless list of dictatorial gangsters that have run dictatorships in this world through history. This country can't support this type of butchering . I don't give a **** if Saudi Arabia try to massively increase the price of oil , I think this country can make it all but impossible for them to hold us up over this. This is a reason to play hardball not for some corporate profit monetary number.> I think to this screw ball its just killing the media which is Ok with him.No matter how its done. Who's this countries biggest threat.
Tripe.

Add 2 more eggs, 00, to one more circle, O, the result is the same, three nothings. Tripe of nothings you got there bro. Perhaps peruse Moral Diplomacy under Wilson. Doesn't function as advertised. The killing of a foreign journo-dissident activist working for an American newpaper ... by chance have you seen the wiki article about the list of journalists killed in Turkey?

Has it categorized into

Capture q.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Turkeyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Turkey

Guess what? That list doesnt even include Jamal Khashoggi, who was the contributor to The Washington Post’s Global Opinions section that was killed in the consulate in Turkey.

Absent that you'll have to hold FDR or Kennedy or Clinton Bush Slenderman or Reagan to the same standards. Otherwise, normal as it may be on that side it's just, you know, mindless lefty chatter.

You see, folks we elect to the top actually have to run a country. First job priority... keeping us safe from enemies without and within.

We are not gonna start a war, we are not going to interrupt major deals already in the pipeline, etc... we show them in our high powered spotlight, rebuke through our attention and displeasure.

You have a better strategy?

Wouldnt we rather have SA as a semi-friend than drive them into other camps? Would that not be in America's long-term interest? Your outraged moral superiority is not applicable on the reality of the worldwide chess board.

Yano?
 

jbander

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
9,244
Reaction score
1,045
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
What I would agree to is the asinine suggestion Trump made on knowing more himself than the CIA does on what happened with Khashoggi.

We have entered a new level of covering for Saudi Arabia, but that said Trump is not the first President to overlook plenty of things Saudi Arabia engages in throughout the region. Killing a Post columnist inside the Saudi Arabia consulate in Turkey just ups the game.

Oil is one reason but not the only reason why we have yet another entangling and hypocritical relationship with a foreign nation.

If we have anything to discuss it is the persistent tone, rhetoric and supportive actions Trump is willing to engage in that seemingly places governance as adversarial to the media. Which is a prerequisite for fascism.
Well said
 
Top Bottom