• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore[W:162]

Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Compare puerto rico and Cuba and get back to me.

Puerto rico has 3.5 million people cuba has 11 million, cuba has lower unemployment, cuba has a positive GDP growth rate compared to Puerto rico, less homicides compared to puerto rico, a higher literacy rate compared to puerto rico, a lower infant mortality rate, higher life expectancy.. hm.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Oh boy, "that's the kind of stuff you get with communism" Ok then, capitalism by its nature leads to concentration of capital, monopoly-building, imperialism, growing alienation, consumerist culture..

And a higher standard of living for all.

I'm not trying to say Cuba is good, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, please compare cuba to countries of it's own standing, not America, and look at its history.

Okay...

Cuba is still pretty much in the same boat the USSR was in before its fall...the same boat China was in before they embraced capitalism. In other words...pretty crappy for the common citizen.


It's my fault for jumping into this off-topic diversion, so I'm going to bow out of it.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Oh boy, "that's the kind of stuff you get with communism" Ok then, capitalism by its nature leads to concentration of capital, monopoly-building, imperialism, growing alienation, consumerist culture.. I'm not trying to say Cuba is good, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, please compare cuba to countries of it's own standing, not America, and look at its history.


Its particularly ironic that you are lamenting the "concentration of wealth, etc" when all of these problems are ubiquitous in communist nations. The poor may be "equally" poor, but there are plenty of elites, much of the imperialism in the last century was from communist expansion, and there is plenty of alienation in your govt proclaiming you as an enemy of the state for working in the wrong profession, being of an inconvenient ethnic or cultural background, or simply because you make too much money.

There simply is no better system than capitalism. The ideology you espouse doesn't even add up on paper, let alone in the real world.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

And a higher standard of living for all.



Okay...

Cuba is still pretty much in the same boat the USSR was in before its fall...the same boat China was in before they embraced capitalism. In other words...pretty crappy for the common citizen.

A higher standard of living for a select few, and the standard gets worse over time without regulation/intervention, you don't deny that capitalism leads to concentration of capital, monopolies, imperialism, alienation, class division, etc? You're ignoring Cuba's growing GDP, the restrictions placed on it by the US, the oil problem it had to deal with after the collapse of USSR states, it's literacy rate, its education, healthcare, low homelessness rate, employment, again, it's not very good, but don't try to compare Cuba to America, compare it to other capitalist countries of Cuba's standing. You also don't seem to realize communism has never actually gone into effect, as communism has no social classes, money, or a state, where the means of production are owned by the proletarians. It seems that many have tried to go towards this, the usual process being a revolution, where a powerful figure/group adheres to a socialist state, in order to try to go about the conversion, this has historically failed, I don't think communism can realistically happen within my lifetime, but I like the idea, and that's enough for me, but I truly believe it can occur sometime in the future, and that's another point I'd like to talk about, just not on this thread as to not further derail it.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Puerto rico has 3.5 million people cuba has 11 million, cuba has lower unemployment, cuba has a positive GDP growth rate compared to Puerto rico, less homicides compared to puerto rico, a higher literacy rate compared to puerto rico, a lower infant mortality rate, higher life expectancy.. hm.

What the Cuban regime calls jobs is laughable, as are the "facts" it releases to the world. Cubas GDP is much lower than Puerto Ricos (pesky facts!), and when you are going to try to compare infant morality im going to have to lol.

I practice medicine-Cuba does not count live births as live infants, it counts only those who are living after 1 month+. Its not even apples to oranges.

I should also mention that I dated a Cuban-American for years and her family had to sneak out. Ive heard the stories and asked questions to people who lived there for years, and saw how they compared it to here.

Im afraid you are falling hard for the propaganda.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Its particularly ironic that you are lamenting the "concentration of wealth, etc" when all of these problems are ubiquitous in communist nations. The poor may be "equally" poor, but there are plenty of elites, much of the imperialism in the last century was from communist expansion, and there is plenty of alienation in your govt proclaiming you as an enemy of the state for working in the wrong profession, being of an inconvenient ethnic or cultural background, or simply because you make too much money.

There simply is no better system than capitalism. The ideology you espouse doesn't even add up on paper, let alone in the real world.

You need to understand all current "communist" countries are actually failures in a sense, read my response to mycroft. Capitalism is a horrid system, and you can't disagree with what I've said about it, because it is true. Communism cannot exist with capitalism having an influence, and of course you can't talk about it in the real world, it has never been fully achieved.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

A higher standard of living for a select few, and the standard gets worse over time without regulation/intervention, you don't deny that capitalism leads to concentration of capital, monopolies, imperialism, alienation, class division, etc? You're ignoring Cuba's growing GDP, the restrictions placed on it by the US, the oil problem it had to deal with after the collapse of USSR states, it's literacy rate, its education, healthcare, low homelessness rate, employment, again, it's not very good, but don't try to compare Cuba to America, compare it to other capitalist countries of Cuba's standing. You also don't seem to realize communism has never actually gone into effect, as communism has no social classes, money, or a state, where the means of production are owned by the proletarians. It seems that many have tried to go towards this, the usual process being a revolution, where a powerful figure/group adheres to a socialist state, in order to try to go about the conversion, this has historically failed, I don't think communism can realistically happen within my lifetime, but I like the idea, and that's enough for me, but I truly believe it can occur sometime in the future, and that's another point I'd like to talk about, just not on this thread as to not further derail it.

Just the fact that occasionally might grow is not proof that its successful or good-tumors grow too.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

A higher standard of living for a select few,

Really? The select few? What percentage of Cubans own cars? Computers? Heck, name any household item and I'll bet a greater percentage of Americans...or people from any other western capitalist country...has it compared to Cuba.

and the standard gets worse over time without regulation/intervention, you don't deny that capitalism leads to concentration of capital, monopolies, imperialism, alienation, class division, etc? You're ignoring Cuba's growing GDP, the restrictions placed on it by the US, the oil problem it had to deal with after the collapse of USSR states, it's literacy rate, its education, healthcare, low homelessness rate, employment, again, it's not very good, but don't try to compare Cuba to America, compare it to other capitalist countries of Cuba's standing. You also don't seem to realize communism has never actually gone into effect, as communism has no social classes, money, or a state, where the means of production are owned by the proletarians. It seems that many have tried to go towards this, the usual process being a revolution, where a powerful figure/group adheres to a socialist state, in order to try to go about the conversion, this has historically failed, I don't think communism can realistically happen within my lifetime, but I like the idea, and that's enough for me, but I truly believe it can occur sometime in the future, and that's another point I'd like to talk about, just not on this thread as to not further derail it.

Okay. Y'all have been talking about Cuba vs Puerto Rico. Here is the primary difference:

Cuba vs. Puerto Rico: A 'Great Lesson for All of Our Peoples' ...

In 1950 Cuba, the average inhabitant had an annual income of $344, which was 23 percent higher than in Puerto Rico, where the average annual income was $279. But starting in the 1950s the two islands took different paths. In 1953 Cuba, during the time of dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista, Castro launched a guerrilla movement in an attempt to overthrow the dictator's government, and by the end of the decade he had succeeded. Meanwhile, Puerto Rico held its first democratic elections in 1949.

In 1950, Puerto Rico became part of the U.S. as the "Associated Free State of Puerto Rico." Since 1950, Puerto Ricans have held 11 free elections, and Puerto Ricans have chosen their leaders from four existing parties which have traded power six times. Its governors can only be re-elected once.
Posted by WORLDMEETS.US

Puerto Ricans have far more power to remove and select their leaders than people in Cuba, where there is only one lawful party, the Communist. All others are considered illegal.

For the past 49 years, Cuba has been ruled by the same person. Along with North Korea, the Cuban regime is the oldest dictatorship in modern history. Politically, Puerto Rico is a democracy; Cuba is a dictatorship. In the economic sphere, one need only visit the two islands to see the tremendous difference in living standards. In 2005, the latest data available, per capita income in Cuba came in at around $4000; in Puerto Rico this year it was $19,300, almost five times higher than Cuba.
Posted by WORLDMEETS.US

Beyond dogma, demagoguery, rhetoric, sympathies and antipathies and based on an objective and dispassionate analysis, the difference in living standards and the level of political freedoms achieved by Cubans and Puerto Ricans over the past 58 years offers us all a great lesson.

Cuba vs. Puerto Rico: A 'Great Lesson for All of Our Peoples' ...

All things being equal, I will always opt for freedom of choice.
 
Last edited:
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

What the Cuban regime calls jobs is laughable, as are the "facts" it releases to the world. Cubas GDP is much lower than Puerto Ricos (pesky facts!), and when you are going to try to compare infant morality im going to have to lol.

I practice medicine-Cuba does not count live births as live infants, it counts only those who are living after 1 month+. Its not even apples to oranges.

I should also mention that I dated a Cuban-American for years and her family had to sneak out. Ive heard the stories and asked questions to people who lived there for years, and saw how they compared it to here.

Im afraid you are falling hard for the propaganda.

Cuba | Data
UNdata | country profile | Cuba
I wasn't talking about the amount of GDP, I was talking about growth,
cuba has a positive GDP growth rate compared to Puerto rico
Really? They don't? Give me something about that, I can't find anything.
Yeah, compared to America, cuba is not good at all. I attest to that.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Just the fact that occasionally might grow is not proof that its successful or good-tumors grow too.

I'm just showing that it is growth, isn't that how capitalists define success?
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Okay. Y'all have been talking about Cuba vs Puerto Rico. Here is the primary difference:



All things being equal, I will always opt for freedom of choice.

As will I, I'd also like the choice to not have my life controlled by the bourgeoisie and the things that I rely on to live used for profit for a select few.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

You need to understand all current "communist" countries are actually failures in a sense, read my response to mycroft. Capitalism is a horrid system, and you can't disagree with what I've said about it, because it is true. Communism cannot exist with capitalism having an influence, and of course you can't talk about it in the real world, it has never been fully achieved.

I already understand that they are failures in many senses of the word. Capitalism is the best system in existence, warts and all. Communism is not the best in existence, numerous warts and all.

It wont be necessary for you to tell me what I can and can't do (I know, communism). The fact that you are now claiming a system that has never "really" been tried can only be implemented without the real world or any competing ideologies says it all, doesn't it?

Now, I will say that in its day, communism as a governmental and economic system was innovative-and that some of the conditions it sprung from were bad-and that some intelligent people went along with it. But you and I live in this world-it did not work, theres no evidence it will work, and its probably time to move on.

I suggest you read some mises, and hayek and get back to me.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Okay. That's it for me.

No more talk about the pros and cons of communism.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Really? The select few? What percentage of Cubans own cars? Computers? Heck, name any household item and I'll bet a greater percentage of Americans...or people from any other western capitalist country...has it compared to Cuba.



Okay. Y'all have been talking about Cuba vs Puerto Rico. Here is the primary difference:



All things being equal, I will always opt for freedom of choice.

I was watching a video recently about how Cubans responded to the dissolution of the USSR. Cubans imported nearly all of their oil from the USSR, so when it went caput-so did gasoline. Cubans started riding bikes and walking even more. The commie propaganda in the video was that it was a triumph since it was "healthy" to walk.


And damn straight on freedom of choice-its its own responsibility. Some people can't hack that. But its what our ancestors spilled much blood over-because it matters. Freedom from choice, is what too many want.

 
Last edited:
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Cuba | Data
UNdata | country profile | Cuba
I wasn't talking about the amount of GDP, I was talking about growth,
Really? They don't? Give me something about that, I can't find anything.
Yeah, compared to America, cuba is not good at all. I attest to that.

Dude, cancerous cells grow faster than healthy ones. Does that make them healthier?
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

I already understand that they are failures in many senses of the word. Capitalism is the best system in existence, warts and all. Communism is not the best in existence, numerous warts and all.

It wont be necessary for you to tell me what I can and can't do (I know, communism). The fact that you are now claiming a system that has never "really" been tried can only be implemented without the real world or any competing ideologies says it all, doesn't it?

Now, I will say that in its day, communism as a governmental and economic system was innovative-and that some of the conditions it sprung from were bad-and that some intelligent people went along with it. But you and I live in this world-it did not work, theres no evidence it will work, and its probably time to move on.

I suggest you read some mises, and hayek and get back to me.

You keep ignoring that communism has never actually occurred, all we have are socialist states that are trying to or have failed to convert, and when looking at capitalism, it's evident that it is a destructive system that leads to concentration of capital, monopoly-building, imperialism, growing alienation, consumerist culture, class division, wage slavery, privatizing water/health/food/shelter, don't see any upside to capitalism at all. Marxism is always added on to and discussed, even today, yes, maybe it won't work today due to the inherit hatred of the word, but in 100 years, I can see it as possibly occurring. It's time to move on from a destructive system such as capitalism, but we will all realize that eventually.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Conservatives are always looking for new pointless things to complain about.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Its just one parameter. See my above comments on cancer.

Ok, what other parameters in reference to capitalism do you consider?
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

Conservatives are always looking for new pointless things to complain about.

*cough* fox news *cough*
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

As will I, I'd also like the choice to not have my life controlled by the bourgeoisie and the things that I rely on to live used for profit for a select few.

Who controls the lives of the individual, in an ideology where the plurality does?

Think of the irony.
 
Re: The 13 words you can’t write about Hillary Clinton anymore

You keep ignoring that communism has never actually occurred, all we have are socialist states that are trying to or have failed to convert, and when looking at capitalism, it's evident that it is a destructive system that leads to concentration of capital, monopoly-building, imperialism, growing alienation, consumerist culture, class division, wage slavery, privatizing water/health/food/shelter, don't see any upside to capitalism at all. Marxism is always added on to and discussed, even today, yes, maybe it won't work today due to the inherit hatred of the word, but in 100 years, I can see it as possibly occurring. It's time to move on from a destructive system such as capitalism, but we will all realize that eventually.

Ah, au contraire, communist. I ignore nothing-including empirical evidence, politics, theory, and reality to come to my outlook. And since I highly value life and the free exchange of ideas I can't dismiss your flawed notions.

If you dont see any upside to capitalism, you must not be able to see-because even marxist nations will adopt them when they inevitably fail.

Your post is dogmatic-it can't deal with facts or reality-and in that it shares much with communism.

I lol thinking how marxism destroyed culture, played up identity politics, literally MADE people into slaves, and lied from its inception. You dont need to lie if it works.

These are things to consider.
 
Back
Top Bottom