Texas: The miracle that isn't

[Fenton]

Fenton... your state CAN diversify its economy because of its natural resources... Wait a minute.. what a great idea.. lets put a seaport in Idaho!..

Maybe we will make the growing season longer in Michigan while we are at it!

:doh

Allot of States have the natural resources to diversify.

California could diversify and take advantage of their natural resources but instead its chosen to push a bunch of false narratives about AGW and implement destructive and regressive carbon trading initiatives.

Its their choice how they want to run their State.

 

[Fenton]

and that has to do with red states being more dependent on federal dollars than blue states.. how?????

So your strategy is to devolve down into old debunked left wing talking points ?

Lol

 

[American]

Oh there's a huge difference between Red States and Blue States.

In Texas, Oil and Gas are only 10 percent of our States GDP.

Texas has a very diverse economy and we've seen growth in all sectors since 2008.

Contrary to what the rest of the Nation thinks, Texas isn't all Oil derricks and long horn cattle.
Millions aren't moving here to work on Oil Rigs or on Cattle farms. Their moving here because Texas's economy is growing because thanks to the very Conservative economic principles that those on the left lament.

Incentivize investment, dont pass silly regulations and destructive tax increases to drive it off. Its pretty simple really.

California has a ton of Natural resources too, and could grow their economy and wipe out their debt if only they took advantage of them.

No, that Oklahoma.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Yep.. one of the few.. on a comparison between "red" states and blue states.. red states are by far more likely to receive more federal dollars than they contribute.

Its probably why you only hear about "the wonders of texas"..

All I know is the OP is bitching about Texas. Texas is a net contributor.

I don't think being a red state or a blue state has much to do with it, in spite of what you're trying to imply. The way those figures are calculated is that they take the total federal tax paid by the state's residents and divide it by how much the state receives.

Each state receives about the same, so the difference is in how much their residents contribute as far as total tax revenue. If you look at that list, you've got New Jersey in first (most millionaires per capita in the country), you've got Delaware (most businesses in the country incorporated there, due to most favorable tax law), etc

What that list really shows, if you get beyond the partisanship and the hype, is that a good chunk of tax contributions comes from a very small number of rich individuals and from corporations. If your state has a lot of millionaires and a favorable tax environment for corporations to use your state as their mailing address, you're going to end up in the "net contributor" list

 

[Gimmesometruth]

It wouldn't have made your post anymore relevant.

Texas's economy is ( to the ire of the left ) versatile enough to withstand OPECs dumping of their product on the market.

We diversified our economy, while other State economies refused to adapt, or chose to perpetuate ideological narratives at the expense of its economy and tax base.

We're not the only State with Military bases or with NASA installations.

We already went over this...

Since the 1980s, direct employment in oil and natural gas exploration and production has declined to 2.5 percent of the Texas work force from 4.5 percent, according Mine K. Yücel, senior vice president and director of research at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. The oil and gas industry’s contribution to the state’s economic output has fallen to 13 percent from 19 percent during the same time period.

Still, as the leading state in oil production and reserves, with two of the three shale fields responsible for nearly doubling crude output in the United States in recent years, petroleum is still king of Texas. And that means busts as well as booms.
“We are definitely slowing, and I think we are going to continue to see weakness,” Ms. Yücel said.

She noted that the Dallas Fed had lowered its forecast for the state’s economic growth rate to 0.5 or 1 percent from the 1.5 percent rate projected at the beginning of the year. That is a significant fall from the robust pace of 3.4 percent growth in 2014, a year in which oil prices galloped before beginning to turn in July.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/bu...ambitions.html

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You know whats regressive ?

Federal EPA mandates on power plants and Carbon credit scams ( California )

The Supreme court ruled against Obama's draconian EPA pollution laws and the Middle class is better off for it.

Yes, the "middle class" is better off being exposed to mercury. I'm not sure which is worse, trying to deceive with a class distinction on who is impacted by mercury exposure more (the lower classes have greater exposure to powerplant mercury pollution) or just the general ignoring of the mercury exposure context of the ruling.

 

[Jack Hays]

No it does not.

And how, exactly, is the property tax avoided?

 

[Fenton]

We already went over this...

Since the 1980s, direct employment in oil and natural gas exploration and production has declined to 2.5 percent of the Texas work force from 4.5 percent, according Mine K. Yücel, senior vice president and director of research at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. The oil and gas industry’s contribution to the state’s economic output has fallen to 13 percent from 19 percent during the same time period.

Still, as the leading state in oil production and reserves, with two of the three shale fields responsible for nearly doubling crude output in the United States in recent years, petroleum is still king of Texas. And that means busts as well as booms.
“We are definitely slowing, and I think we are going to continue to see weakness,” Ms. Yücel said.

She noted that the Dallas Fed had lowered its forecast for the state’s economic growth rate to 0.5 or 1 percent from the 1.5 percent rate projected at the beginning of the year. That is a significant fall from the robust pace of 3.4 percent growth in 2014, a year in which oil prices galloped before beginning to turn in July.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/bu...ambitions.html

The Dallas Fed still shows Texas's economy growing and Houston just made #2 on the list of Cities that have the most job openings.

I guess we're more than Oil derricks and cattle ranches after all

 

[Fenton]

Yes, the "middle class" is better off being exposed to mercury. I'm not sure which is worse, trying to deceive with a class distinction on who is impacted by mercury exposure more (the lower classes have greater exposure to powerplant mercury pollution) or just the general ignoring of the mercury exposure context of the ruling.

Lol !

Demagoguery, how desperate of you.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The Dallas Fed still shows Texas's economy growing and Houston just made #2 on the list of Cities that have the most job openings.

I guess we're more than Oil derricks and cattle ranches after all

Um, dude, your claim was that the oil price changes have not affected the TX economy, yet even your own sources (a recurring theme) show this to be untrue. Not only have your GDP declines been massive, so has the the declines in job gains in just one year:


Dallas-Fort Worth ranks No. 3 in metro job gains for 12 months through May | | Dallas Morning News

So again, you can try to divert the attention from the CHANGES (re: DECLINES) as a result of oil prices, but you can't avoid the truth of the matter.

 

[disneydude]

Government hasn't run the economy in Texas, its gotten out of the way and allowed the Free market to do what it does best.

Create new jobs..

Free market*



(*With Billions of Corporate Welfare handed to them [at the expense of the education and public healthcare systems])

 

[Fenton]

Um, dude, your claim was that the oil price changes have not affected the TX economy, yet even your own sources (a recurring theme) show this to be untrue. Not only have your GDP declines been massive, so has the the declines in job gains in just one year:

View attachment 67186597
Dallas-Fort Worth ranks No. 3 in metro job gains for 12 months through May | | Dallas Morning News

So again, you can try to divert the attention from the CHANGES (re: DECLINES) as a result of oil prices, but you can't avoid the truth of the matter.

No " Dude ", I said even with OPEC dumping its product on the market we're still forecasted by the Dallas Fed to continue growing economically in 2015

I live here, I know people are losing Oil jobs but guess what ? That's the Oil industry.

Anyone who's worked in it knows its a volatile career choice.

Its all or nothing. Been that way for decades. Its WHY Texas chose to diversify away from Oil and Gas after the last Bust in the 80s.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Lol !

Demagoguery, how desperate of you.

Ah....the discussion of mercury poisoning.....is "demagoguery".

That is funny, since I'm not a political leader, nor is the discussion of EPA regulation of mercury output from powerplant I'm trying to have based on emotions. Mercury poisoning is a real event for anyone downwind of a coal/oil powerplant, and it affects lower classes more than other quintiles.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

No " Dude ", I said even with OPEC dumping its product on the market we're still forecasted by the Dallas Fed to continue growing economically in 2015

I don't deny that, but that is not all that you said, your argument that oil prices have not negatively effected the TX economy is untrue from both GPD and employment gains standpoints, the declines are MASSIVE.

I live here, I know people are losing Oil jobs but guess what ? That's the Oil industry.

Anyone who's worked in it knows its a volatile career choice.

Its all or nothing. Been that way for decades. Its WHY Texas chose to diversify away from Oil and Gas after the last Bust in the 80s.

Again, the changes are not limited to TX oil, I keep showing you that the effects are very widespread through the TX economy because of the long history, the integration and the high wages the oil/mining sector has. Again, look at the chart and recognize the massive declines in job gains for ALL TX sectors.

 

[Fenton]

Free market*



(*With Billions of Corporate Welfare handed to them [at the expense of the education and public healthcare systems])

You shouldn't try to critique something that you do not and can not comprehend.

Leave the Free Market to people that not only understand it, but know how to use it to grow successful economies !
Like Rick Perry !!

It will save you save some embarrassment.

 

[Fenton]

I don't deny that, but that is not all that you said, your argument that oil prices have not negatively effected the TX economy is untrue from both GPD and employment gains standpoints, the declines are MASSIVE.

Again, the changes are not limited to TX oil, I keep showing you that the effects are very widespread through the TX economy because of the long history, the integration and the high wages the oil/mining sector has. Again, look at the chart and recognize the massive declines in job gains for ALL TX sectors.

I didn't say it didn't have a negative impact.

Just said that we're still expected to grow in 2015.

Texas learned its lesson from the last big oil bust and has been working towards diversifying its economy ever since.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I didn't say it didn't have a negative impact.

That has been your meme throughout the thread, a constant denial of the size and effect on the TX economy that both the domestic and foreign oil production has on the Texas economy, yet you have gone from @ 4% gdp gains to 0.5%...and massive declines in job gains.

Just said that we're still expected to grow in 2015.

And I already said that estimated 0.5% gain is not factoring in the flooding.

Texas learned its lesson from the last big oil bust and has been working towards diversifying its economy ever since.

Sure...





https://www.dallasfed.org/microsites/research/econdata/reg-charts.pdf

 

[pdog]

All I know is the OP is bitching about Texas.

The OP is NOT "bitching" about Texas. It lists dozen's of counterpoints to the idea that Texas is somehow a model of prosperity. There has hardly been any refute of those points. Instead the main point seems to be to redefine prosperity to include only employment.

I could care less about Texas, but Fenton's persistent derailing of other threads with Texas as a beacon of light forced me to look to see how bright that light really was - turns out I didn't even need sunglasses.

 

[jaeger19]

And how, exactly, is the property tax avoided?

Don't own property.

I purposely lease to avoid property taxes in some states.

 

[longview]

Don't own property.

I purposely lease to avoid property taxes in some states.

Um! you don't think your land lord has included the taxes in your rent?

 

[jaeger19]

You shouldn't try to critique something that you do not and can not comprehend.

Leave the Free Market to people that not only understand it, but know how to use it to grow successful economies !
Like Rick Perry !!

It will save you save some embarrassment.

The same Rick Perry that mandated that teenage girls have to get a HPV shot? With heavy ties to Merck.. the maker of the HPV vaccine?

But campaign disclosure records portray a much deeper financial connection with Merck than Perry’s remarks suggest.

His gubernatorial campaigns, for example, have received nearly $30,000 from the drugmaker since 2000, most of that before he issued his vaccine mandate, which was overturned by the Texas legislature.

Merck and its subsidiaries have also given more than $380,000 to the Republican Governors Association (RGA) since 2006, the year that Perry began to play a prominent role in the Washington-based group, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.

Perry served as chairman of the RGA in 2008 and again this year, until he decided to run for president. The group ranks among the governor’s biggest donors, giving his campaign at least $4 million over the past five years, according to Texans for Public Justice, a watchdog group.

I guess mandating that people purchase a drug at the behest of a campaign donor is your example of a person that "understands the free market?"

 

[Fenton]

The same Rick Perry that mandated that teenage girls have to get a HPV shot? With heavy ties to Merck.. the maker of the HPV vaccine?



I guess mandating that people purchase a drug at the behest of a campaign donor is your example of a person that "understands the free market?"

What does that have to do with Texas leading the Nation in Jobs growth ?

Amd I noticed you Lease so you don't have to pay property taxes.

Really ?????

It never occurred to you that your landlord added the cost he pays in property taxes to your lease ?

Because a REAL Conservative would have known immediately that he's paying property taxes on his rental and or leased property

Are you sure your'e a Conservative ?

 

[disneydude]

You shouldn't try to critique something that you do not and can not comprehend.

Leave the Free Market to people that not only understand it, but know how to use it to grow successful economies !
Like Rick Perry !!

It will save you save some embarrassment.

Can you really call it "Free Market" when Perry has handed over billions of tax payer dollars in corporate welfare?

 

[Fenton]

Can you really call it "Free Market" when Perry has handed over billions of tax payer dollars in corporate welfare?

" Corporate welfare ".......

Lol !

Nonsensical left wing buzz words aside, what Perry has done is given people who had no other option other than to pick up and leave their State a opportunity for a better life.

I realize the left wants Americans to be dependent and jobless, but as long as theres States like Texas and Governors like Perry, Americans will have a alternative to chronic unemployment and generational welfare

 

[jaeger19]

Um! you don't think your land lord has included the taxes in your rent?

No.. I have not had an increase in rent in the last 10 years in those buildings and the property taxes in those buildings have gone up every year. (its one reason that I don't buy even though the landlords would probably willingly sell to me)