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Texas social media censorship bill signed into law

The principle being defended here is free speech.
there is no guarantee of freedom of speech in a private forum....your understanding of freedom of speech is wrong...go back and read that Constitution....instead of using it for toilet paper.
 
there is no guarantee of freedom of speech in a private forum....your understanding of freedom of speech is wrong...go back and read that Constitution....instead of using it for toilet paper.

There is no guarantee either of immunity from libel laws either
 
The principle being defended here is free speech.
No it's not. Free speech has NEVER meant that you have some right to spew your "viewpoints" on someone else's property. All it has EVER meant is the government cannot interfere with your right to express your opinion. It's never meant that I have to invite neo-Nazi assholes into my kitchen, my church, my business, my cookout, my back yard, so they have a platform to spread their hate. It's never meant newspapers have a legal obligation to print neo-Nazi garbage. Etc.......

To you guys, free speech means "speech that I like, without consequences." That's also not what is meant by 'free speech.' Go call your boss's wife the c-word and see how that works out for you. That speech on a street corner is protected by the constitution. It doesn't mean your boss cannot and will not fire you on the spot.

Now to defend 'free speech' you'd have government compel speech, which is just as bad as government censoring speech. What we have in Texas is a Republican whining and crying that Republicans and others who he likes are not treated nicely enough by private property owners. So the Republican governor and legislature is saying - carry pro-government (Republican government) speech, or else!! It's not even hyperbole to say that's fascism in action - an authoritarian government compelling private citizens to provide a platform to pro-government speech, or else.
 
If the concern is in doing would force small sites to carry ideas the owners do not like, then further amend sec 230 for it to apply to sites of certain sizes.
If you're defending a principle, why would you exempt 'small sites'? Why shouldn't a little knitting forum have to carry white supremacists trolling their site for fun? Why shouldn't the Holocaust Museum when doing a Zoom tour - I've done one - have to carry neo-Nazis making anti-Semitic comments for the entire tour? A few did try and were booted, but you'd like for them to have an audience by law or else the Holocaust Museum be punished for banning those vermin.

And why should a 'big' site be forced to carry ideas the owners don't like? Where in the Constitution does it say it's fine for government to compel speech, but only if the private property owners are really big?
 
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Do you know who the owners of these social media giants are and their relationship?
If you know, you can tell us, then tell us why it will matter to any law.

FWIW, at least nearly all of them are publicly owned, traded on the exchanges. Zuck owns about 14% of FB, for example, according to the Google. Jack owns about 2% of Twitter. Why do we care?
 
There is no guarantee either of immunity from libel laws either
Right, and it says in the Constitution that it's fine for government to punish private property owners for not agreeing to government-compelled speech, if they're big enough. Article 19, sec. 53. Check it out!!
 
If you're defending a principle, why would you exempt 'small sites'? Why shouldn't a little knitting forum have to carry white supremacists trolling their site for fun? Why shouldn't the Holocaust Museum when doing a Zoom tour - I've done one - have to carry neo-Nazis making anti-Semitic comments for the entire tour? A few did try and were booted, but you'd like for them to have an audience by law or else the Holocaust Museum be punished for banning those vermin.

And why should a 'big' site be forced to carry ideas the owners don't like? Where in the Constitution does it say it's fine for government to compel speech, but only if the private property owners are really big?

What is the principle behind mandating covid vaccines -- but exempting employees in firms of less than 100 people? What-- thos epeople don't count? Can't get Covid? Cant spread it?
Its a compromise.
 
Yep-- and it should continiue-- provided they only censor for illegal content.
no where does 230 take away their ability to censor...nor does it say they are required to allow any speech or to be forced to allow anyone on their platforms...what you are defending is Nazis talking about extinguishing people they don't like....that is what you are defending...or shooting to kill at the border, or other nonsense like that, that is beyond repulsive.
 
What is the principle behind mandating covid vaccines -- but exempting employees in firms of less than 100 people? What-- thos epeople don't count? Can't get Covid? Cant spread it?
Its a compromise.
how exactly are vaccines mandated? I believe what is mandated is Covid testing, not vaccines.
 
There is no guarantee either of immunity from libel laws either
the only person that should be subjected to libel laws is the person making the libelous statements....or in the case of a newspaper, the newspaper or news agency that permits it to be published.....censorship in a private forum is reasonable...if you don't like it, create your own gutter forum and allow it to be a free for all. In a forum, you are subject to their rules, because it is their house...so, if I go in your house, should I be free to say whatever moronic nonsense that I want to without being showed the door? No, right? That is what you are demanding...to be a guest in the house and act like you own the place.
 
Yep-- and it should continiue-- provided they only censor for illegal content.
Right, they ought to have to carry racists, neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, fascists, misogynists, commies, trolls, LGBT haters, porn merchants, scam artists, in addition to right wingers, MAGAs, Republicans, etc. or else!! That's FREEDOM BABY!!! What's more free than government compelling private businesses to carry pro-government speech?

What's stunning about all this is Republicans in Texas are very upfront about what they are demanding and why. The government in charge is mad because, allegedly, some websites are biased against the ruling party/ideology, and by gosh, freedom demands that government must compel private businesses to carry pro-government speech, or else be punished. Does that really sound like a free country to you, or a fascist one?
 
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What is the principle behind mandating covid vaccines -- but exempting employees in firms of less than 100 people? What-- thos epeople don't count? Can't get Covid? Cant spread it?
Its a compromise.
So what you believe is Debate Politics really ought to have to carry e.g. racist vermin, but you might let them censor those people, and many others, because they're small?

Why? I think most of us like that the moderators on here do a good job keeping us in line, ban the vermin, and for those of us who remain enforce a set of rules that keep this place civil. I was infracted a couple of days ago for getting a little out of hand. I did then what I always do and thanked them for keeping the place civil, and I meant it. The system you favor would prohibit DP (if they were big enough) from all those efforts.

There is nothing illegal about calling another poster a f'in worthless POS idiot. There's nothing illegal about attacking someone because they are a woman, or gay, or black, or brown. It poisons the discourse, but you'd require Twitter to permit that on their site or else. I don't get it.

Just for example, if a black woman is on Twitter, there's nothing illegal to post below every one of her tweets some version of, "you're just a worthless n-word, c-word - go back to Africa!!" That happens all the time. There is no threat of violence, just someone expressing their "viewpoint" of black women. I've seen the screenshots from black women, women of all races, Jews and others, of the kind of abuse that's pretty common online, and it's obviously not limited to them. You'd require Twitter to put up with that kind of abuse, and won't admit that's what you WANT to happen. It will happen, and you'd force Twitter to allow all of it, so you favor that outcome.

I think what it comes down to is you like DP because they don't censor the MAGAs or right wingers, conservatives, libertarians, etc. That's fine - I appreciate that as well. Makes the place interesting to have different "viewpoints." But they DO censor the vermin, and we all like that they do. The problem is when government demands that a place not censor "viewpoint", are compelled by government to provide a platform to every "viewpoint" (so long as it's not illegal or threatening violence) you can't just demand that they carry the MAGAs, but virtually EVERY viewpoint, not matter how deplorable and divisive and poisonous to the discourse, and that means the racist trolls etc.

There's a reason in a free society those decisions are left to the owner of the platform, and not compelled by government. If you want to host a website that allows the vermin free run, YOU CAN DO THAT!!! No one you want to visit will visit, unless you like the vermin, but it's your choice! Government cannot prohibit you from hosting the neo-Nazis - their speech is in fact protected. But neither should government force you to, or else.
 
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So what you believe is Debate Politics really ought to have to carry e.g. racist vermin, but you might let them censor those people, and many others, because they're small?

Why? I think most of us like that the moderators on here do a good job keeping us in line, ban the vermin, and for those of us who remain enforce a set of rules that keep this place civil. I was infracted a couple of days ago for getting a little out of hand. I did then what I always do and thanked them for keeping the place civil, and I meant it. The system you favor would prohibit DP (if they were big enough) from all those efforts.

There is nothing illegal about calling another poster a f'in worthless POS idiot. There's nothing illegal about attacking someone because they are a woman, or gay, or black, or brown. It poisons the discourse, but you'd require Twitter to permit that on their site or else. I don't get it.

Just for example, if a black woman is on Twitter, there's nothing illegal to post below every one of her tweets some version of, "you're just a worthless n-word, c-word - go back to Africa!!" That happens all the time. There is no threat of violence, just someone expressing their "viewpoint" of black women. I've seen the screenshots from black women, women of all races, Jews and others, of the kind of abuse that's pretty common online, and it's obviously not limited to them. You'd require Twitter to put up with that kind of abuse, and won't admit that's what you WANT to happen. It will happen, and you'd force Twitter to allow all of it, so you favor that outcome.

I think what it comes down to is you like DP because they don't censor the MAGAs or right wingers, conservatives, libertarians, etc. That's fine - I appreciate that as well. Makes the place interesting to have different "viewpoints." But they DO censor the vermin, and we all like that they do. The problem is when government demands that a place not censor "viewpoint", are compelled by government to provide a platform to every "viewpoint" (so long as it's not illegal or threatening violence) you can't just demand that they carry the MAGAs, but virtually EVERY viewpoint, not matter how deplorable and divisive and poisonous to the discourse, and that means the racist trolls etc.

There's a reason in a free society those decisions are left to the owner of the platform, and not compelled by government. If you want to host a website that allows the vermin free run, YOU CAN DO THAT!!! No one you want to visit will visit, unless you like the vermin, but it's your choice! Government cannot prohibit you from hosting the neo-Nazis - their speech is in fact protected. But neither should government force you to, or else.


There are laws against harassment online. The concerns that Twitter would have to allow somebody spew racial insults at somebody is without foundation.
 
the only person that should be subjected to libel laws is the person making the libelous statements....or in the case of a newspaper, the newspaper or news agency that permits it to be published.....censorship in a private forum is reasonable...if you don't like it, create your own gutter forum and allow it to be a free for all. In a forum, you are subject to their rules, because it is their house...so, if I go in your house, should I be free to say whatever moronic nonsense that I want to without being showed the door? No, right? That is what you are demanding...to be a guest in the house and act like you own the place.

The reason why a newspaper is also subject to such liability is because they can control what they publish, what they permit to be on their pages.

The theory for the exemption on the internet, in part, is because it is difficult for them to control what appears on their site.
But as they are able to do so for some content, there really isn't a good reason for an exemption for what they do allow to be posted.

No compulsion involved.
 
no where does 230 take away their ability to censor...nor does it say they are required to allow any speech or to be forced to allow anyone on their platforms...what you are defending is Nazis talking about extinguishing people they don't like....that is what you are defending...or shooting to kill at the border, or other nonsense like that, that is beyond repulsive.

Yes-- nobody should be forced to host speech they don't approve,
But if they choose to restrict that which they oppose, they should not be exempt from liability for what they do allow.
No compulsion. No nazis.
 
There are laws against harassment online. The concerns that Twitter would have to allow somebody spew racial insults at somebody is without foundation.
What laws? Name them, and cite them.

The best you'll be able to do is find laws that make 'harassment' illegal, but those cases involve some underlying threat of violence (or in the context of housing, employment, services), and me merely expressing the viewpoint on Twitter that a black woman is a a worthless n-word c-word, and should return to Africa is not a threat of violence if she refuses. If I call you a series of profane names, that's not illegal. It happens daily, perhaps millions of times daily, and no one is arrested for that. If you'd like to find a case where a person was arrested for calling someone a n-word outside an employment or housing or similar context, do it. Find the case. Cite the case so we can all see it.

But even this example proves the point I'm making. Why should Twitter have to decide if calling someone a racial slur, or merely profane insults, is illegal speech, harassment under the law? At what point does merely expressing my racist views, which are obviously protected speech under many circumstances, become "harassment" and illegal? Do you think the moderators on here are qualified to make that judgment? Why should they need to do so? If they make a mistake, and it's not illegal, they have violated the law. But shouldn't Twitter or the DP mods be able to ban anyone for saying what I quoted above, even if it's not 'harassment' under the applicable state or federal law?
 
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