Texas Food Chain Whataburger Bans Open Carry in Stores.

[Captain Adverse]

Whataburger — with some 780 locations in 10 states — has drawn a mix of praise and rebuke since making the announcement this month, including a prediction of boycotts from one of the state's leading advocates for gun rights.

In an open letter on the company's website, Whataburger president and CEO Preston Atkinson said many employees and customers are "uncomfortable being around someone with a visible firearm." He described himself as an avid hunter with a concealed-carry license and noted that patrons licensed to carry concealed handguns will still be able to do so in Whataburger.

Whataburger takes stand against Texas' new open carry law - Yahoo News

So, because some patrons and some employees are nervous nellies around openly carried guns the company has banned them. But being a nice guy gun-owner, the CEO will still allow CCW to carry in the stores.

I can understand a company concerned with a loss of profits banning guns on premises; IMO its like a “no shirts, no shoes, no service” policy that any business might have.

My first problem is that they make a distinction between CCW, which can still be seen by customers, and open carry. As if nervous nellies won’t be just as frightened, if not more so, when they glimpse a concealed weapon on another customer.

The second problem is the precedent set if this kind of policy continues without contest, since it could be followed at every store chain in a State, making it difficult for the individual gun owner to conduct his daily business.

IMO the fear expressed is irrational; inflamed by anti-gun propaganda and fear-mongering media.

Thoughts?

 

[reinoe]

Whataburger takes stand against Texas' new open carry law - Yahoo News

So, because some patrons and some employees are nervous nellies around openly carried guns the company has banned them. But being a nice guy gun-owner, the CEO will still allow CCW to carry.

I can understand a company concerned with a loss of profits banning guns on premises; IMO it like a “no shirts, no shoes, no service” policy that any business might have.

My first problem is that they make a distinction between CCW, which can still be seen by customers, and open carry. As if nervous nellies won’t be just as frightened, if not more so, when they glimpse a concealed weapon on another customer.

The second problem is the precedent set if this kind of policy continues without contest, since it could be followed at every store chain in a State, making it difficult for the individual gun owner to conduct his daily business.

IMO the fear expressed is irrational; inflamed by anti-gun propaganda and fear-mongering media.

Thoughts?

That doesn't make any sense.

"No shoes, no shirt, no service" operates on the same principle. You seem to understand that fine enough.

 

[Captain Adverse]

That doesn't make any sense.

"No shoes, no shirt, no service" operates on the same principle. You seem to understand that fine enough.

Check again. The chain has not banned ALL guns, just open carry. Concealed carry is okay. So if you saw a concealed weapon would you be more relaxed or less relaxed if you opposed guns as a customer?

 

[tech30528]

Don't eat there if it bothers you. It's really that simple. I'm big on firearms at my business, my customers will bring them in to discuss them, sometimes we even fire a few rounds. But as much as I am all for Constitutional Carry I respect the rights of private property owners as well. Personally I wouldn't eat there either. Oh, and I concealed carry every day. I've removed firearms from vehicles that are left for extended periods and locked them up for safe keeping until the cars were picked up. I have been paid for work I've done in ammunition.

 

[MaggieD]

U

Whataburger takes stand against Texas' new open carry law - Yahoo News

So, because some patrons and some employees are nervous nellies around openly carried guns the company has banned them. But being a nice guy gun-owner, the CEO will still allow CCW to carry in the stores.

I can understand a company concerned with a loss of profits banning guns on premises; IMO its like a “no shirts, no shoes, no service” policy that any business might have.

My first problem is that they make a distinction between CCW, which can still be seen by customers, and open carry. As if nervous nellies won’t be just as frightened, if not more so, when they glimpse a concealed weapon on another customer.

The second problem is the precedent set if this kind of policy continues without contest, since it could be followed at every store chain in a State, making it difficult for the individual gun owner to conduct his daily business.

IMO the fear expressed is irrational; inflamed by anti-gun propaganda and fear-mongering media.

Thoughts?

CCW cannot be seen. The idea that some people have a problem with OC is understandable. Leave it in the car...put it in a belt holster with a t-shirt...or go eat somewhere else. It's really not that difficult.

 

[Captain Adverse]

U

CCW cannot be seen. The idea that some people have a problem with OC is understandable. Leave it in the car...put it in a belt holster with a t-shirt...or go eat somewhere else. It's really not that difficult.

Actually just because it is CCW does not guarantee the gun won't be seen. If I recall, you keep yours in either a purse or special holder you bought? But concealed carry also applies to a holstered weapon hidden by a jacket, or a shirt, or just inside a handbag, etc.

So consider how many times in your life you've been somewhere shopping, or eating at a restaurant, and have seen a gun "concealed" on another customer. I've seen this many times. It's not all that rare. Won't that cause a customer or employee who fears gun ownership to react negatively?

 

[winston53660]

Its true and I'm not kidding

 

[winston53660]

I think I should (and this is coming from a gun owning 5thGen Texan) the CEO made the right choice.

BTW I've been eatin' Whataburger all my life.

 

[beefheart]

Whataburger takes stand against Texas' new open carry law - Yahoo News

So, because some patrons and some employees are nervous nellies around openly carried guns the company has banned them. But being a nice guy gun-owner, the CEO will still allow CCW to carry in the stores.

I can understand a company concerned with a loss of profits banning guns on premises; IMO its like a “no shirts, no shoes, no service” policy that any business might have.

My first problem is that they make a distinction between CCW, which can still be seen by customers, and open carry. As if nervous nellies won’t be just as frightened, if not more so, when they glimpse a concealed weapon on another customer.

The second problem is the precedent set if this kind of policy continues without contest, since it could be followed at every store chain in a State, making it difficult for the individual gun owner to conduct his daily business.

IMO the fear expressed is irrational; inflamed by anti-gun propaganda and fear-mongering media.

Thoughts?

Good for them! Free market and all of that, they are doing what their customers want, and if you don't like it, eat elsewhere.

 

[MaggieD]

Actually just because it is CCW does not guarantee the gun won't be seen. If I recall, you keep yours in either a purse or special holder you bought? But concealed carry also applies to a holstered weapon hidden by a jacket, or a shirt, or just inside a handbag, etc.

So consider how many times in your life you've been somewhere shopping, or eating at a restaurant, and have seen a gun "concealed" on another customer. I've seen this many times. It's not all that rare. Won't that cause a customer or employee who fears gun ownership to react negatively?

Since IL just Allowed concealed carry, I really can't speak to having seen people carrying. Apparently IL has an open carry if one is a LEO. When I was at the range last week, four guys were just leaving with their guns OC in western-style holsters. I was very surprised. Was it intimidating? Not in the least. But I did think they were swaggering a bit, I must admit.

You're right about mine looking like a cellphone case. I do have an inside the belt holster, and, frankly, I think I'll wear that more often since it is much lighter. A woman's t-shirt covers it, even hands over head, but it's a compact.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Don't eat there if it bothers you. It's really that simple. I'm big on firearms at my business, my customers will bring them in to discuss them, sometimes we even fire a few rounds. But as much as I am all for Constitutional Carry I respect the rights of private property owners as well. Personally I wouldn't eat there either. Oh, and I concealed carry every day. I've removed firearms from vehicles that are left for extended periods and locked them up for safe keeping until the cars were picked up. I have been paid for work I've done in ammunition.

Good for them! Free market and all of that, they are doing what their customers want, and if you don't like it, eat elsewhere.

Actually, I don't own a gun. I've never felt the need to so far. I am still a strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights because as a student of history I understand the true purpose behind it.

My issue is that if the sole reason for the ban is to prevent fear in customers and employees (out of sight = out of mind), banning open carry while allowing CCW is a sop rather than a cure. Especially since many CCW methods of carrying are still evident to such customers and employees who will still react negatively any time they see it.

My argument is not that business owners cannot ban weapons on their premises, I support the rights of property ownership. I'm just concerned that this tactic, if pursued by more and more major chains, might serve as an economic "ban" designed to inhibit gun ownership nationally.

 

[VanceMack]

Im fine with his edict. People that carry openly shouldnt eat there.

(it may be in the story...but does his decision re Open Carry also extend to law enforcment types?)

 

[beefheart]

Actually, I don't own a gun. I've never felt the need to so far. I am still a strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights because as a student of history I understand the true purpose behind it.

My issue is that if the sole reason for the ban is to prevent fear in customers and employees (out of sight = out of mind), banning open carry while allowing CCW is a sop rather than a cure. Especially since many CCW methods of carrying are still evident to such customers and employees who will still react negatively any time they see it.

My argument is not that business owners cannot ban weapons on their premises, I support the rights of property ownership. I'm just concerned that this tactic, if pursued by more and more major chains, might serve as an economic "ban" designed to inhibit gun ownership nationally.

Free market speaks.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Im fine with his edict. People that carry openly shouldnt eat there.

(it may be in the story...but does his decision re Open Carry also extend to law enforcment types?)

Good question. I don't think it extends to police personnel because they are licensed by their jurisdiction to carry anywhere while on duty. They are also typically permitted to carry "off duty" both for self-defense, and since they are considered members of law enforcement 24/7, so they can react whenever they observe a crime in progress.

 

[Goshin]

See, this is one of the reasons why I'm not all that keen on pushing Open Carry too much just yet.


It is, by its nature, open and impossible to ignore or shrug at. It draws a hard line. The Nervous Nellies find it provocative.


Well, we're lucky Whataburger only posted against OC... they might have said screw it and posted against any form of carry.


What Caspar Milquetoast and his fellow travelers (and business owners/managers) don't see can't scare them so much... they could have 500 CCWers pass through and not notice, and then ONE OCer might alarm them and cause them to post their business.


I don't know that society is ready to embrace OC in many states. I'm concerned this is too much too fast and likely to result in push-back, or cause more businesses to post against carry period.



A little moderation is called for, IMO.

 

[SMTA]

Actually just because it is CCW does not guarantee the gun won't be seen. If I recall, you keep yours in either a purse or special holder you bought? But concealed carry also applies to a holstered weapon hidden by a jacket, or a shirt, or just inside a handbag, etc.

So consider how many times in your life you've been somewhere shopping, or eating at a restaurant, and have seen a gun "concealed" on another customer. I've seen this many times. It's not all that rare. Won't that cause a customer or employee who fears gun ownership to react negatively?

Many times my backside.

 

[VanceMack]

Good question. I don't think it extends to police personnel because they are licensed by their jurisdiction to carry anywhere while on duty. They are also typically permitted to carry "off duty" both for self-defense, and since they are considered members of law enforcement 24/7, so they can react whenever they observe a crime in progress.

Not sure how that is relevant. The law allows cops to carry concealed...the law allows private citizens to carry concealed. If he is discriminating against law abiding private citizens and not cops...I think there might some grounds for a legal battle there (NOT that I am advocating for one...I dont love the open carry folks that are out just to prove a point). Seems to me this is covered under the same ruling the Supreme Court just rendered re gay marriage.

 

[jet57]

Whataburger takes stand against Texas' new open carry law - Yahoo News

So, because some patrons and some employees are nervous nellies around openly carried guns the company has banned them. But being a nice guy gun-owner, the CEO will still allow CCW to carry in the stores.

I can understand a company concerned with a loss of profits banning guns on premises; IMO its like a “no shirts, no shoes, no service” policy that any business might have.

My first problem is that they make a distinction between CCW, which can still be seen by customers, and open carry. As if nervous nellies won’t be just as frightened, if not more so, when they glimpse a concealed weapon on another customer.

The second problem is the precedent set if this kind of policy continues without contest, since it could be followed at every store chain in a State, making it difficult for the individual gun owner to conduct his daily business.

IMO the fear expressed is irrational; inflamed by anti-gun propaganda and fear-mongering media.

Thoughts?

I think it's going to be trend. I don't think it's nervous nellies at all. I think people are getting a little tired of this political movement of wearing guns everywhere they go. It looks silly, it makes the country look silly and in time it's going to be made to go away because people will get sick of it and start reacting. I don't blame the restaurant at all.

 

[TurtleDude]

Good question. I don't think it extends to police personnel because they are licensed by their jurisdiction to carry anywhere while on duty. They are also typically permitted to carry "off duty" both for self-defense, and since they are considered members of law enforcement 24/7, so they can react whenever they observe a crime in progress.

its because anti gun ninnies don't tend to wet themselves seeing someone in uniform carrying a pistol on their belt. and I suspect if its a plain clothes officer who doesn't do what is common in Ohio (having their badge right next to their holster if they aren't in uniform) that would cause the ninnies to be just as upset.

its the uniform that eases the fear of the timid

 

[TurtleDude]

I think it's going to be trend. I don't think it's nervous nellies at all. I think people are getting a little tired of this political movement of wearing guns everywhere they go. It looks silly, it makes the country look silly and in time it's going to be made to go away because people will get sick of it and start reacting. I don't blame the restaurant at all.

the only reason why people do this to make a political statement is in reaction to anti gun ninnies who whine about gun ownership. Its no different than blacks in Jim Crow south sitting in the front of the bus or drag queens parading in public against archaic views of homosexuality

 

[justabubba]

the only reason why people do this to make a political statement is in reaction to anti gun ninnies who whine about gun ownership. Its no different than blacks in Jim Crow south sitting in the front of the bus or drag queens parading in public against archaic views of homosexuality

really? you believe the CEO of whataburger is grandstanding because of his implementation of this no open carry policy
you do not believe he took this course of action because it is what is most comfortable to his customers?


i see no logic in your position. why would the person in charge of advancing his company effect a standard that was found objectionable by most of his customers?

 

[TurtleDude]

really? you believe the CEO of whataburger is grandstanding because of his implementation of this no open carry policy
you do not believe he took this course of action because it is what is most comfortable to his customers?


i see no logic in your position. why would the person in charge of advancing his company effect a standard that was found objectionable by most of his customers?

I was talking about the open carry types who tend to be in your face in some areas. they are reacting against anti gun ninnies. I believe the CEO did what he did to keep garment soiling down in his establishment, Nothing is worse than trying to eat a juicy burger when the cute soccer mom next to you has crapped through her white tennis outfit

 

[Captain Adverse]

I think it's going to be trend. I don't think it's nervous nellies at all. I think people are getting a little tired of this political movement of wearing guns everywhere they go. It looks silly, it makes the country look silly and in time it's going to be made to go away because people will get sick of it and start reacting. I don't blame the restaurant at all.

Right up until the early 1900's people use to walk around either carrying or wearing guns quite openly; fully accepted as part of American society. Gun control started after Prohibition with the National Firearms Act in 1929. That was enacted in direct response to organized gangs fighting over territory.

Since that time people have been intentionally frightened into supporting the disarming of ALL persons not directly involved in law enforcement. Now many people, trained to associate gun possession with violent crime, assume that if you have a gun you are likely to commit a crime. So they'd prefer you not carry a gun.

Strange, but one would think that openly carrying a holstered weapon would serve to make people feel safer from criminal acts. It seems to deter criminals in locales where people have a right to own and carry guns.

 

[justabubba]

I was talking about the open carry types who tend to be in your face in some areas. they are reacting against anti gun ninnies. I believe the CEO did what he did to keep garment soiling down in his establishment, Nothing is worse than trying to eat a juicy burger when the cute soccer mom next to you has crapped through her white tennis outfit

yet you criticize his decision

 

[PoS]

Concealed carry > Open carry.