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ANAV It's weird how the further away we get from 9/11 the sympathy and understanding some people have for the very people who killed thousands of innocent people.[/QUOTE said:Really. The way everyone was the first few months after 9/11 it actually seemed for a while we were going to maintain bipartisan resolve to see this one through. But the people forgot and went all yellow belly. I wonder what the difference would be if every American had to watch the videos of the planes hitting both towers and both towers collapsing EVERY DAY.
No, I meant what I said luckily. Treat everyone as equals. If they've committed a crime, punish them. If we believe they've committed a crime, give them a fair trial. Presumed innocent before guilty.stsburns said:Did you mean, Keep you friends close, Keep you enemies closer?
And if so, should they all be challenged in a court in California?
Please.......
Gandhi>Bush said:A human life is a human life. I don't see one more valuable than the other. I think it is sick that someone had to die. I think it is equally if not more disgusting that someone had to kill.
QUOTE=Trotsky]=
The detainees are being humiliated, abused and beaten up.
Well I suppose it just shows one of the ugly faces of international capitalism and US imperialism.
[/QUOTE]smash the system which causes this cruelty to human kind, break your shackles and unite together against this violence.
shuamort said:No, I meant what I said luckily. Treat everyone as equals. If they've committed a crime, punish them. If we believe they've committed a crime, give them a fair trial. Presumed innocent before guilty.
stsburns said:So do you "approve" of Michael Jackson's "Fair Trial?"
Gandhi>Bush said:At least he got one.
Gandhi>Bush said:A human life is a human life. I don't see one more valuable than the other. I think it is sick that someone had to die. I think it is equally if not more disgusting that someone had to kill.
someone had to kill
Gandhi>Bush
Pascifist/Hippy Moderator
Re: Ten Things We Can Do With Guantanamo Bay Detainees
Quote:
Originally Posted by stsburns
WOW the Responses. There so negative. May be if you a BRAVE ENOUGH you Will tell All of these "Proud Serving Marines", at this website Start post in "News" or "Talk Chit" Categories.
THAT YOU PITTY MORE ON THE ENEMY THAN THERE LIVES.
That is if you have the guts?
A human life is a human life. I don't see one more valuable than the other. I think it is sick that someone had to die. I think it is equally if not more disgusting that someone had to kill.
stsburns said:Yes, but you aren't the one fighting the war. Your typing your hatred for the war? Those are two different things.
Why did you :spin: my words? Where did you cook up, "A value of human life?" Plus, you got to realize that people die! Whether by a gun, or a wreckless driver, people die. A person who voluntarly serves his country, should be appreciated, instead of being called "disgusting".
Obviously you don't have any experience with someone from the Military. They are doing what they are trained to do! Just like you have been trained that Ghandi>Bush. Someone had to die for all of your rights? Freedom isn't free, a price must be paid for freedom. Unless you think countries are just giving freedom away?
Freedom isn't free
So did you except the challenge? Or just doging the question? I promise the site will be up in a weeks time! If your up to it?
QUOTE=Gandhi>Bush]
You want me to lie to a US Marine by telling him I don't pity him as much as someone else? I pity him the same. Both are at risk for becoming victims in this war.
stsburns said:They are doing what they are trained to do!
Wording should be: Their training helps them do what they feel called to do. You make him sound like a well behaved dog. Not intended I'm sure.
If kicking the snot out of a terrorist divulges intelligence that saves one American life, let me at that terrorist.
teacher said:You do realize your talking about a grown man don't you? An intelligent one in my opinion who is obviously aware of his choices. A hero and defender of right and freedom. Willing to put his money where his mouth is? A victim? I think gunny would be there right besides me throwing tea into Boston harbor.
Pity? And you have the gall to chastise me for a dissertation on the word "suck". You owe someone an apology bro. I know your better than that Gandhi. It takes a certain knowledge and respect to be able to call gunny "jarhead" without getting your teeth kicked in. Have you such knowledge Gandhi? Semper Fi pacifist.
Gandhi>Bush said:Freedom has always been forged in blood, examples, the storming of the Bastille in the French Revolution, The Mexican revolution, the American Revolution, the Iraqi conflict, look at the failures, in Nam we were backing the North Vietnamese off and beating them into submission, yet our troops got pulled, South Vietnam was destroyed, Appeasement of Hitler, many European countries became part of that empire bacause they got swamped. etc.Yeah you can go around and "purchase" freedom and your local one-stop-commi-shoppe.
To fight means to kill in war, there is no way around it, pacifism is a great thing, until you need to stand up to a threat, sometimes you are forced to hurt, mame, or kill.Someone had to? That's debateable, but someone did die for my rights and I would thank them for that, but they're dead. I have experience with people from the military. I know what they are doing. I respect the idea. Fighting for something they see as noble. Hell that's awesome, but when it comes to kill, I'm a little more reserved.
War is expensive, and directly coorelated to freedom, making them both expensive.Freedom is free. War is expensive as hell.
Are you kidding me? Ghandi was assasinated, he most certainly paid in full.Freedom must be fought for yes, but a certain brown someone proved to the whole war that just because it isn't free, doesn't mean that you have to pay for it in blood.
These "humans" that took up violent acts against our civilians deserve, in my opinion little to no sympathy from our people, and certainly less than our wonderful soldiers.You want me to lie to a US Marine by telling him I don't pity him as much as someone else? I pity him the same. Both are at risk for becoming victims in this war. I don't want to see either of them hurt. Can you say the same?
LaMidRighter said:Are you kidding me? Gandhi was assasinated, he most certainly paid in full.
These "humans" that took up violent acts against our civilians deserve, in my opinion little to no sympathy from our people, and certainly less than our wonderful soldiers.
Fair statement, but here's the thing to ponder, he was killed by someone of his own faith because of his beliefs, he ultimately did pay for someone's liberty with his blood. I for one believe Ghandi was a phenomenal human being, and his ultimate end was attrocious, but the fact is that some people will use force, and a choice has to be made.Gandhi>Bush said:Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu Nationalist that was agree because the Mahatma was to kind to muslims.
But people were harmed, maimed and possibly even killed in the name of said freedom, someone paid in blood, just not the oppressor.Gandhi and his followers never supported killing as a means to attaining Indian freedom. They got their freedom.
They did pay the above price though.You could say the Amristar massacre. Hundreds of people died there. None of them were British. Gandhi and his people did not waver. They got their freedom.
If someone pays through pain or death on either side my statement of paid through blood holds.To say that India's independence was one through blood is foolish. It was one through peace and nonviolence and patience.
I don't believe you necessarily have to kill for freedom, but, if the situation demands it, you must act accordingly.My point was you don't have kill for freedom. And if there were no General Dyers(British leader at the Amristar massacre) in the world, no one would have to die.
If you are talking about the terrorists or the Bastille Day comment the answer changes. For the French nobles I really don't know, for the terrorists, I say do in kind but with increasing increments, two heads for a head, then three heads for a head, then four, etc. it sounds harsh and in fact is for me to say that, but I will be honest, I have no respect for these sub-human waste products we call "terrorists" and believe the only things they understand are pain, death, and violence.Maybe we should cut off their heads?
LaMidRighter said:Fair statement, but here's the thing to ponder, he was killed by someone of his own faith because of his beliefs, he ultimately did pay for someone's liberty with his blood. I for one believe Ghandi was a phenomenal human being, and his ultimate end was attrocious, but the fact is that some people will use force, and a choice has to be made.
But people were harmed, maimed and possibly even killed in the name of said freedom, someone paid in blood, just not the oppressor.
They did pay the above price though.
If someone pays through pain or death on either side my statement of paid through blood holds.
I don't believe you necessarily have to kill for freedom, but, if the situation demands it, you must act accordingly.
If you are talking about the terrorists or the Bastille Day comment the answer changes. For the French nobles I really don't know, for the terrorists, I say do in kind but with increasing increments, two heads for a head, then three heads for a head, then four, etc. it sounds harsh and in fact is for me to say that, but I will be honest, I have no respect for these sub-human waste products we call "terrorists" and believe the only things they understand are pain, death, and violence.
I understand that you are making the point that the Indian population didn't fight with violence, what I am getting at is that doesn't equate to free freedom, they fought with public relations, yet many suffered in prisons, were hurt assualted, maimed, and yes, even killed. A price was paid either way you look at it.Gandhi>Bush said:They didn't kill. That's what matters.
Now here's the thing, I know it is wrong and will fully admit that. All I am saying is that if these guys want to intentionally inflict death and pain, why not give them a healthy dose of their own medicine, wrong yes, but I have nothing but contempt for these a-holes and wish them nothing less than a sampler of the hell we will eventually hand deliver them to.I believe you are wrong. Beyond wrong. I don't think trying to out do an atrocity with a greater atrocity will make any progress at all. We're twice as evil as you! Because we cut off two heads! If we're better than them, we have to prove it. If we're better at being evil than they are, we need to re-evaluate ourselves.
Am I wrong to feel this way? More than likely, but hey, that's just me.
Come on folks. Tell the truth. Put aside all our high and mighty rhetoric. I'll say it. If kicking the snot out of a terrorist divulges intelligence that saves one American life, let me at that terrorist. Oh but we are America. That brings us down to their level. Teacher you're a monster. So be it. Let's take care of this mess quick as possible then the whole world can get on down the road towards freedom and civilization. If you don't have the stomach for it fine, change the channel back to American idol and let those willing to put their lives on the line for the right and moral cause of WORLD WIDE EQUALITY AND FREEDOM finish the job
QUOTE=vandree] Besides that torture is illegal in the US, it is a fact that it does not produce reliable intelligence.
First obviously when tortured, one will say anything to stop the pain;
[/QUOTE]Second there is only so much pain a body can take and people start passing out or worse die; third because of physical pain and stress the mind of the tortured person doesn't work as it is supposed to and the person can't remember details and is confused.
ME too. I feel we should knock the snot out of these savages. But if you get caught, fess up and take your punishment like a man. That Abu prison deal was not torture to extract information. Just some dumb asses on their own who got caught and now will pay the price.
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