Ten States wiped out by Obummercare

[Somerville]

Irrational hatred does cause some to post irrational thoughts.

Why does American have the greatest per capita cost for health care, the highest percentage of the GDP spent on health care and yet is 27th in life span averages?

 

[HoongLoong]

Irrational hatred does cause some to post irrational thoughts.

Why does American have the greatest per capita cost for health care, the highest percentage of the GDP spent on health care and yet is 27th in life span averages?

I suggest you yank out a mirror when posting the comment:"Irrational hatred does cause some to post irrational thoughts."


No matter how inadequate our pre-ObummerCare Health Care effectiveness or Health Care costs are.........slapping on the Health Care costs for an ADDITIONAL 13 million Illegal Aliens, i.e. Healthcare costs for the criminals on to the existing costs PLUS ANOTHER ADDITIONALPREPOSTEROUS Health Care cost to subsidize the 10 million Deadbeats and moochers, i.e. the Occupy Wall Street nutjobs (the core of the Obummerrhoidal DEM Party) LOGICALLY, COULD NOT POSSIBLY REDUCE THE PRE-OBUMMERRHOIDAL HEALTH CARE COSTS, NOR IMPROVE THE PRESENT PRE-OBUMMERRHOIDAL HEALTH CARE EFFICIENCY !!!

 

[Glowpun]

No question. The Affordable Care Act is going to be rather disruptive and will almost certainly reduce economic activity for some time to come. What it will do in the long term is another question and I have not seen any really convincing research on this. At least the thing seems to run on market forces and will probably not become a social system monster.

When Social Security was enacted, the Republicans at that time said the same thing. But look at Social Security today which is embraced by as many Republicans as not.

 

[Glowpun]

What this shows is that there are too few insurance companies in many states and they are utterly greedy and need to go out of business. Thank god for the Affordable Care Act then!

There really is no proof that the insurance companies are being wiped out. Competition is good as we all know!

The people people behind the website are funded by the tea party and therefore there really is no objectivity in what they say.

 

[HoongLoong]

When Social Security was enacted, the Republicans at that time said the same thing. But look at Social Security today which is embraced by as many Republicans as not.

This type of "pie-in-the-sky" logic is preposterous. It's like saying that if David defeated Goliath one then can legitimately conclude that any paraplegic can beat the crap out of a professional boxer twice the paraplegic's size.

 

[vvx]

3) Connecticut: Aetna, the third largest insurer in the nation, won’t offer insurance on the Obamacare exchange in its own home state, where it was founded in 1850. The reason? “We believe the modification to the rates filed by Aetna will not allow us to collect enough premiums to cover the cost of the plans and meet the service expectations of our customers,” said Aetna spokesman Susan Millerick.

4) Maryland: 13,000 individuals covered by Aetna and its recently-purchased Coventry Health Care won’t be able to keep their insurance plans if they want Obamacare subsidies on the exchanges. Aetna and Coventry canceled plans to offer insurance in the exchange when state officials wouldn’t allow them to charge premiums high enough to cover costs.

Not going through all of these, but the ones about obummercare and insurance companies not participating in the exchange being a "disastrous" result are especially entertaining. So if we didn't have obummercare, there wouldn't be exchanges right? So for Maryland for example, with obummercare you cannot purchase Aetna insurance on the exchange. This is of course compared to without obummercare you cannot purchase Aetna insurance on the exchange.

Wait, both with and without obummercare I cannot purchase Aetna insurance on the exchange. This is disastrous? Some of these are really reaching.

 

[Glowpun]

This type of "pie-in-the-sky" logic is preposterous. It's like saying that if David defeated Goliath one then can legitimately conclude that any paraplegic can beat the crap out of a professional boxer twice the paraplegic's size.

With today's technology, that is a distinct possibility.

 

[Kobie]

There really is no proof that the insurance companies are being wiped out. Competition is good as we all know!

The people people behind the website are funded by the tea party and therefore there really is no objectivity in what they say.

Precisely this. The Daily Caller is as partisan as it gets, and it is well known to lie or distort (especially distort) to advance an anti-Obama agenda.

I don't even think Obama's that good, but using the Daily Caller as any kind of evidence is like using Daily Kos to advance a left-wing agenda. It's pure partisan claptrap.

 

[PeteEU]

Then how do you think healthcare will be made available?

No company can stay in business if it spends more money than it takes in.

Yes.. but that is not what is happening here. If a company spends more money than it takes in, then it either has to cut costs (starting with the massive administrative costs might be a start) or go bankrupt. That is the circle of life in the business world. But in the healthcare world, the companies are effectively oligopoly's and control fully who can enter the market, so there is no incentive what so ever to be efficient or keep prices down.

The only way that it is possible for consumers to buy any goods or services is for it to be profitable for some companies to offer these goods and services for sale to us.

Not really, but again that is not what is happening here. So you accept that an aspirin in a hospital needs to cost 2 bucks? That an operation in the same city has a 100% difference in price depending on what hospital and HMO you go too? Explain why a procedure in one hospital costs 2k but in another under 50 miles away costs 20k? If one hospital can do it for 2k, then ALL can.

If no company is able to profitably offer us health care services, then no company is going to offer us health care services.

Again not what is happening in the US. See above..

The mindless Marxist in you can take comfort in knowing that no scummy, greedy capitalist pigs are making money on the backs of us poor proletariats who only want and need health care services; but that is little comfort to those of us who need health care services that are not being made available to us.

So you result to personal insults when you cant win an argument?

Face it, the US healthcare system is broken. It has nothing to do with healing but taking as much money from the consumer as possible. And when the doctors, hospitals and insurance companies work together to create a closed eco-system... then of course the prices go up... it is basic monopoly theory.

It is ironic that you accuse me of being a marxist, when the healthcare system in the US is no better than the economic system in Soviet Russia.

 

[Kobie]

Yes.. but that is not what is happening here. If a company spends more money than it takes in, then it either has to cut costs (starting with the massive administrative costs might be a start) or go bankrupt. That is the circle of life in the business world. But in the healthcare world, the companies are effectively oligopoly's and control fully who can enter the market, so there is no incentive what so ever to be efficient or keep prices down.

Not really, but again that is not what is happening here. So you accept that an aspirin in a hospital needs to cost 2 bucks? That an operation in the same city has a 100% difference in price depending on what hospital and HMO you go too? Explain why a procedure in one hospital costs 2k but in another under 50 miles away costs 20k? If one hospital can do it for 2k, then ALL can.

Again not what is happening in the US. See above..

So you result to personal insults when you cant win an argument?

Face it, the US healthcare system is broken. It has nothing to do with healing but taking as much money from the consumer as possible. And when the doctors, hospitals and insurance companies work together to create a closed eco-system... then of course the prices go up... it is basic monopoly theory.

It is ironic that you accuse me of being a marxist, when the healthcare system in the US is no better than the economic system in Soviet Russia.

I only liked this comment once, because the forum software doesn't allow me to like it a thousand times.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Why should there be that.. aint the US the land of the free and free market? According to free market theory, if there is a demand, then there will be companies wanting to meet that demand no? Are you telling me that there are artificial barriers in the individual states that prevent competition?

A regulated market which artificially increases costs is NOT a free market. Just because there may be a demand for something does not mean there is the supply for something.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

What this shows is that there are too few insurance companies in many states and they are utterly greedy and need to go out of business. Thank god for the Affordable Care Act then!

lol, you do understand the ACA basically delivers a captive market to the insurance industry? Honestly, I'm a huge supporter of healthcrae reform in this country favoring a system modeled after japan, but the ACA is the worst possible solution to our problems and likely lacks the means to address some of the underlying issues facing healthcare in this country

 

[PeteEU]

A regulated market which artificially increases costs is NOT a free market. Just because there may be a demand for something does not mean there is the supply for something.

Yea but that is not how the US healthcare market works. Any regulation that there is, was written by the industry themselves in order to maintain the status quo and insure that there is very little consumer power. The whole Medicaid plan D was one massive payout to industry and made to prevent competition. It actually prevents the government in negotiating prices ... Dont you think that would push up prices if you were barred from asking for a cheaper price.. "Hey if you want this medicine that you need to stay alive.. then you will pay 4000% more than the actual cost.. "

As I mentioned.. when the cost of a procedure in the same city can vary by over 100%+, then you have a serious broken market. In no way should a hospital be able to stay in business if another hospital 40 miles down the road is doing the same thing for considerable less. But because of the system, put in place by the industry, this is fully possible and in fact most likely.

 

[PeteEU]

lol, you do understand the ACA basically delivers a captive market to the insurance industry? Honestly, I'm a huge supporter of healthcrae reform in this country favoring a system modeled after japan, but the ACA is the worst possible solution to our problems and likely lacks the means to address some of the underlying issues facing healthcare in this country

Of course ACA aint perfect, it is written in large part by the industry. But at least it is an attempt to break the stranglehold the industries have on the American people.

And the worst possible solution would have been to stay with the system that was before ACA. ACA might not be perfect, but it is hardly as ****ty as the crap that was going on before ACA.

Listen.. when people go to Mexico and Thailand for basic procedures because it is very very much cheaper there, then you know you got a problem.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Of course ACA aint perfect, it is written in large part by the industry. But at least it is an attempt to break the stranglehold the industries have on the American people.

It literally requires people to buy services from that industry.

[/quote]when people go to Mexico and Thailand for basic procedures because it is very very much cheaper there, then you know you got a problem.[/QUOTE]

Most of the medical tourists you meet in Thailand and India are European ...

 

[Kal'Stang]

Yea but that is not how the US healthcare market works. Any regulation that there is, was written by the industry themselves in order to maintain the status quo and insure that there is very little consumer power. The whole Medicaid plan D was one massive payout to industry and made to prevent competition. It actually prevents the government in negotiating prices ... Dont you think that would push up prices if you were barred from asking for a cheaper price.. "Hey if you want this medicine that you need to stay alive.. then you will pay 4000% more than the actual cost.. "

As I mentioned.. when the cost of a procedure in the same city can vary by over 100%+, then you have a serious broken market. In no way should a hospital be able to stay in business if another hospital 40 miles down the road is doing the same thing for considerable less. But because of the system, put in place by the industry, this is fully possible and in fact most likely.

Different hospitals with in the same city generally give different types of services and it is those services which may make the price of said services more or less expensive. Plus you are assuming that all hospitals are the same in regards to what services they provide, what equipment that they have, and what options they have available to them.

There are many reasons that our healthcare is so expensive and in reality people not paying their bills is just a very small part of that reason. Another reason I am against Obamacare btw as it doesn't actually address WHY the costs are so high. Real healthcare reform would have first focused on the major aspects and saved the lesser aspects for later. The top three reasons our healthcare is so expensive is due to 1: Government over regulation, 2: frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to carry extremely expensive insurance to cover the costs (it is one of the most highly sued professions there is) and 3: Big Pharma.

Now mind you Pete, I am not against regulating health insurance companies. But I do think that you are looking at the small picture as if it was the only and biggest picture.

 

[Somerville]

Different hospitals with in the same city generally give different types of services and it is those services which may make the price of said services more or less expensive. Plus you are assuming that all hospitals are the same in regards to what services they provide, what equipment that they have, and what options they have available to them.

There are many reasons that our healthcare is so expensive and in reality people not paying their bills is just a very small part of that reason. Another reason I am against Obamacare btw as it doesn't actually address WHY the costs are so high. Real healthcare reform would have first focused on the major aspects and saved the lesser aspects for later. The top three reasons our healthcare is so expensive is due to 1: Government over regulation, 2: frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to carry extremely expensive insurance to cover the costs (it is one of the most highly sued professions there is) and 3: Big Pharma.

Now mind you Pete, I am not against regulating health insurance companies. But I do think that you are looking at the small picture as if it was the only and biggest picture.

Pete specifically wrote that he was comparing like with like - your argument attempts to divert from his statement by saying different hospitals offer different services.


Your other arguments; 1: Government over regulation, 2: frivilous(sic) lawsuits and 3: Big Pharma are a bit contradictory. At least complaining about "over regulation" and Big Pharma are contradictory. Other developed nations set the prices for medicines, in the American "free market" Big Pharma can set what ever price they wish and in many cases groups aren't allowed to even try to negotiate with the drug makers.

Frivolous lawsuits are always thrown into the mix but even in those states which have limited such lawsuits; "tort reform", there has been no reduction in medical costs.

To become an American doctor requires hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for the schooling; most developed nations provide either free or extremely low cost training for medical doctors. American doctors then need to demand high rates to help pay off their debt loads.

The lower costs of other countries is a direct result of more government regulation. Administrative costs in America are the highest of all the developed countries because there are so many different entities a doctor's practice must deal with - not just the federal government but every single insurance company, drug supplier and equipment manufacturer. A couple years ago the GAO found that if American costs could be cut to the level of the Canadian system, there would sufficient savings to pay the medical costs of every uninsured American. Of course, if such savings were to be found, they would not go for healthcare but instead would end up in the pockets of defence contractors, and lobbyists.

IMO

 

[HoongLoong]

With today's technology, that is a distinct possibility.

So that is your response to: "if David defeated Goliath one then can legitimately conclude that any paraplegic can beat the crap out of a professional boxer twice the paraplegic's size ?"

Go ahead and bet your life's savings on that. ROFLMAO.

No wonder you, and your ilk, love ObummerCare.

 

[Glowpun]

. The top three reasons our healthcare is so expensive is due to 1: Government over regulation, 2: frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to carry extremely expensive insurance to cover the costs (it is one of the most highly sued professions there is) and 3: Big Pharma.

Now mind you Pete, I am not against regulating health insurance companies. But I do think that you are looking at the small picture as if it was the only and biggest picture.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. The single biggest culprit is Big Pharma. Govt regulations and malpractice insurance come a distant second.

 

[Glowpun]

So that is your response to: "if David defeated Goliath one then can legitimately conclude that any paraplegic can beat the crap out of a professional boxer twice the paraplegic's size ?"

Go ahead and bet your life's savings on that. ROFLMAO.

No wonder you, and your ilk, love ObamaCare.

Uh huh.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Driving people into the exchanges is the only way this thing can work.
I as well as millions of others will be fined 'for not having insurance'.
I will not pay.
Many will pay this fine out of fear of the IRS and because it is currently very small.
But they will still be uninsured and the fine is programmed to escalate at an alarming rate.
Which of you are either facing outrageous premium increases or are being dropped from your current plans
how many of you are going to sign up at the exchange and even with any possible subsidies still be paying far more than before?

stop slinging poo for a moment and try and answer those simple questions

 

[iguanaman]

There are plenty of barriers, within the states, and within the country, that inhibit competition, and also inhibit profitability. You seem to think that a company that desires to make a profit, to be able to stay in business, is “utterly greedy and need to go out of business”. Any business that doesn't make a profit will go out of business. So where is the consumer left when it is no longer profitable to offer the good or service that the consumer needs?

Are you saying the insurers are not making profits? The average HC insurer CEO makes $11 million a year and does not treat a single patient.

 

[HoongLoong]

Uh huh.

When did you go broke ? Before or after getting ObamaCare, or betting on the paraplegic .......the odds are almost identical. ROFLMAO.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

The average HC insurer CEO makes $11 million a year

Why aren't you making that kinda money?

 

[iguanaman]

Why aren't you making that kinda money?

The question is why is he? Aren't HC premiums supposed to go to medical bills instead of hedge funds?