Teachers with Guns??

[dsanthony]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?id=15142930&GT1=8618&lc=1033

MADISON, Wis. - In the wake of school shootings in Wisconsin, Colorado and Pennsylvania during the last two weeks, a state legislator says he plans to introduce legislation that would allow teachers, principals, administrators and other school personnel to carry concealed weapons.

----------------

Now that airline pilots can be armed, and armed air marshalls are undercover on many flights, is it logical that we allow teachers and other school employees to carry guns?

 

[Flea]

If they are trained, why not?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I'm strangely comfortable with it

 

[Kandahar]

This has got to be one of the stupidest, most asinine ideas ever to come out of a state legislature...and that's really saying a lot.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

Are you guys nuts?? No! HELL no! Look, I am a teacher, and even if I weren't a pacifist, I still wouldn't want guns put into schools. There are plenty of teachers that I would not trust to have guns on campus, and if you think back and remember the alcoholics, the dirty old men/dirty old women types, the crackpots and whackos that still teach because they will have tenure until the day they die, I think you'd agree.

More to the point, I don't believe that arming teachers would really make that much difference. A school is a big place, with a lot of access points, a lot of students congregating in open areas; there's just too many targets. If you had a situation like Klebold and Harris at Columbine, where they actually roamed the halls looking for specific victims, then armed teachers might make a difference; but most school shootings seem to follow a similar pattern: psycho shows up with guns and ammo, starts firing into the first crowd he sees, and does not leave the area until he runs out of ammo or gets taken down. There's no way teachers could react fast enough to prevent that, unless you're talking about teachers packing sidearms in holsters and roaming the grounds like guards, and that's not what we do.

If schools really have become too dangerous, then we need to rethink the wisdom of gathering thousands of young people into a single easily controlled area; there isn't a reasonable way to protect schools from things like this happening in future, IMO. Of course, despite the press coverage, how many millions of students go to school every day for twelve years, and never even smell a whiff of gunpowder on campus? I think this is an overreaction, and an ineffective solution.

 

[dsanthony]

Coffee, I can tell you're a pacifist. Your post has nothing to do with reality.

If a teacher decides to go postal, he'd hardly be concerned with a law which says he can't bring a gun to school. Your entire premise (as usual) is faulty.

 

[Kandahar]

Coffee, I can tell you're a pacifist. Your post has nothing to do with reality.

If a teacher decides to go postal, he'd hardly be concerned with a law which says he can't bring a gun to school. Your entire premise (as usual) is faulty.

A "teacher deciding to go postal" is the LAST thing that we need to be worried about with this law. If that isn't already self-evident to you, then you haven't really thought about the ramifications of this law.

Where is a teacher going to store a gun? Can kids get to it? Does the teacher need to be trained to use it, or can any teacher who happens to have a gun bring it? Will anyone actually feel safer if teachers have guns?

School shootings are incredibly rare. Why do we need knee-jerk solutions to the latest news headline at all?

 

[dsanthony]

A "teacher deciding to go postal" is the LAST thing that we need to be worried about with this law. If that isn't already self-evident to you, then you haven't really thought about the ramifications of this law.

Where is a teacher going to store a gun? Can kids get to it? Does the teacher need to be trained to use it, or can any teacher who happens to have a gun bring it? Will anyone actually feel safer if teachers have guns?

School shootings are incredibly rare. Why do we need knee-jerk solutions to the latest news headline at all?

They are NOT incredibly rare. Actually, they occur almost monthly.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

Coffee, I can tell you're a pacifist. Your post has nothing to do with reality.

If a teacher decides to go postal, he'd hardly be concerned with a law which says he can't bring a gun to school. Your entire premise (as usual) is faulty.

Uh, what? Back up and say that again; I missed it the first time. I was trying to say that teachers with guns on campus might misuse them, not that a teacher would go on a killing spree if it was legal to carry but would be calm if it wasn't legal. Are you saying that all teachers are trustworthy with guns? Really?

 

[Jerry]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?id=15142930&GT1=8618&lc=1033

MADISON, Wis. - In the wake of school shootings in Wisconsin, Colorado and Pennsylvania during the last two weeks, a state legislator says he plans to introduce legislation that would allow teachers, principals, administrators and other school personnel to carry concealed weapons.

----------------

Now that airline pilots can be armed, and armed air marshalls are undercover on many flights, is it logical that we allow teachers and other school employees to carry guns?

…but teacher already has eye-beams and a monkey army….why would he need a gun?



Remove the gun-ban from schools entirely.

If you can legaly carry a firearm it shouldn't matter where you carry it.

It matters not rather one is a member of the faculty, or even a parent....or even a student (I'm in collage myself).

Students who can legally carry forearms should be able to carry them into class if they so choose.

School policies baring the possession of firearms on campus, should the gun ban be lifted, should be established as unconstitutional.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

They are NOT incredibly rare. Actually, they occur almost monthly.

Out of how many schools? How many students?
Look at the odds, not isolated incidents. Odds are, nothing like this will happen at 99% of the schools in the nation. Is that 1% worth the risks, the issues that Kandahar mentioned?

 

[Kandahar]

They are NOT incredibly rare. Actually, they occur almost monthly.

Almost monthly? Nationwide? That sounds like it qualifies as "incredibly rare" to me.

 

[Jerry]

Where is a teacher going to store a gun?

I proffer the hip myself. A concealed carry permit not only allows one to wear a jacket over the holster, but also to place a pistol in an ankle holster if appearance is a consideration.

Can kids get to it?

Not if proper care, use and storage is observed.

Does the teacher need to be trained to use it, or can any teacher who happens to have a gun bring it?

As per your local state and federal laws regarding gun ownership.

Will anyone actually feel safer if teachers have guns?

I don't look to others to take care of my security.

I would feel better if I had a gun on me, yes.

If someone threatens your child with lethal force I will place a bullet in his heart if I have a clear shot.

School shootings are incredibly rare. Why do we need knee-jerk solutions to the latest news headline at all?

Allow me to take a page out of the gay-marriage play book and say: The rights of the individual can not be infringed simply because they are in the extreme minority.

Thus the right of legally competent adult students to keep and bear arms should not be infringed because they are seldom the targets of domestic terrorism.

 

[TurtleDude]

Coffee, I can tell you're a pacifist. Your post has nothing to do with reality.

If a teacher decides to go postal, he'd hardly be concerned with a law which says he can't bring a gun to school. Your entire premise (as usual) is faulty.

issues like this tend to do several things. You have a divide between thinkers and feelers

You have people (such as myself) who are highly trained with weapons and believe others, with the proper training, can be competent and safe with weapons. You have others who are fearful of guns and project their fear on others and assume others are as timid and unwilling to learn weaponcraft

finally, you have realist who understand that killing is not always the worst thing versus thus who would rather die or see those they are responsible for die than to take a life.

obviously, teachers who can't handle things would be worse with a weapon than without one. those who are well trained would be the opposite

 

[Kandahar]

I proffer the hip myself. A concealed carry permit not only allows one to wear a jacket over the holster, but also to place a pistol in an ankle holster if appearance is a consideration.

But why stop there? If you're really in favor of an absolute right to bear arms, why shouldn't the teacher be able to just leave the gun on his desk?

Not if proper care, use and storage is observed.

And what if proper care, use, and storage ISN'T observed? Is that really out of the realm of possibility?

As per your local state and federal laws regarding gun ownership.

You don't think there should be a higher standard required of people who want to carry guns in a CLASSROOM, then for people who just want to OWN a gun?

I don't look to others to take care of my security.

I would feel better if I had a gun on me, yes.

Frightening. Many people would not, especially in suburban schools where this type of thing would be completely unnecessary. I know that if I found out one of my high school teachers had a gun, I would've been very very nervous.

So if you want to get your local school board to support something like that (assuming it doesn't violate any state/federal laws), more power to you. As long as school boards also have the right to NOT allow guns, and as long as the students have the right to get a voucher to attend school somewhere else if they don't like this policy.

If someone threatens your child with lethal force I will place a bullet in his heart if I have a clear shot.

Umm...very comforting. What about all the teachers who think they're a better shot than they are?

Allow me to take a page out of the gay-marriage play book and say: The rights of the individual can not be infringed simply because they are in the extreme minority.

Unlike schools full of guns, gay marriage doesn't have the potential to kill a child (although Navy Pride might find some way to disagree :lol: ).

Thus the right of legally competent adult students to keep and bear arms should not be infringed because they are seldom the targets of domestic terrorism.

I'm generally supportive of the right to bear arms, but it's ideas like this that ALWAYS make me qualify that support. Demagoguery has no place in our public schools. Most of them are safe as it is. You have the right to bear arms, but you don't have the right to do potentially dangerous things with them like bring them into a classroom.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

There's no need for it, but as long as we're trusting them with our children, I see no reason not to trust them with the means to protect our children at the same time.

All these school shootings, and I ain't heard of one yet done by a teacher.

 

[Caine]

School shootings are incredibly rare. Why do we need knee-jerk solutions to the latest news headline at all?

This above, plus the fact that students would have easier access to a "weapon of opportunity" while at school is my reason for saying NO.

 

[jamesrage]

Are you guys nuts?? No! HELL no! Look, I am a teacher, and even if I weren't a pacifist, I still wouldn't want guns put into schools.

I you were not a pacifist you would want our teachers to be able to defend themselves and hteir students.

 

[Willow]

I said "no'. Besides the fact that many teachers just don't have the capability or desire to carry a gun, do you have any idea how easy it would be for a male teenager to disarm someone like me who is quite small? I mean really I bounce between 115 to 120 lbs and I know how to use a gun. But realistically I doubt very much I could fight off a teenage boy and get to a holstered gun if one surprised attacked me. My having a gun would only mean they wouldn't have to bother hiding one and bringing it to school. The only way I could fight them off would be to keep the safety off and then I'd probably shoot myself in the foot.

 

[punditbeat]

I'm strangely comfortable with it

good point

 

[punditbeat]

Are you guys nuts?? No! HELL no! Look, I am a teacher, and even if I weren't a pacifist, I still wouldn't want guns put into schools. There are plenty of teachers that I would not trust to have guns on campus, and if you think back and remember the alcoholics, the dirty old men/dirty old women types, the crackpots and whackos that still teach because they will have tenure until the day they die, I think you'd agree.

More to the point, I don't believe that arming teachers would really make that much difference. A school is a big place, with a lot of access points, a lot of students congregating in open areas; there's just too many targets. If you had a situation like Klebold and Harris at Columbine, where they actually roamed the halls looking for specific victims, then armed teachers might make a difference; but most school shootings seem to follow a similar pattern: psycho shows up with guns and ammo, starts firing into the first crowd he sees, and does not leave the area until he runs out of ammo or gets taken down. There's no way teachers could react fast enough to prevent that, unless you're talking about teachers packing sidearms in holsters and roaming the grounds like guards, and that's not what we do.

If schools really have become too dangerous, then we need to rethink the wisdom of gathering thousands of young people into a single easily controlled area; there isn't a reasonable way to protect schools from things like this happening in future, IMO. Of course, despite the press coverage, how many millions of students go to school every day for twelve years, and never even smell a whiff of gunpowder on campus? I think this is an overreaction, and an ineffective solution.

better point

 

[jfuh]

If it comes down to the point where an adult in the position of a teacher has to hold childeren at gun point in order to teach, that teacher does not belong in the classroom.
This is just complete and utter stupidity.
These students are children, not adults, they are not violent criminals they are adolescent kids.
For those that support this message I ask you, do you feel comfortable leaving your child in a school where the instructor, many of whom you hardly feel comfortable already teaching your child, allowed to hold a gun?
Guns and munitions do not belong in school. Military academy? fine, normal schools **** no.

 

[jfuh]

I you were not a pacifist you would want our teachers to be able to defend themselves and hteir students.

How many schools have had armed gun men break in and slaughter all of them?
On the other hand how many ppl have been killed as a result of missfireings or friendly fire? Even trained military personel completely comfortable with firearms and how to properly handle them have been killed in the line of fire because of miss-firings.
ARe you comfortable with a trigger happy instructor in the class of your child?

You've been watching too many dirty harry movies.

 

[Goobieman]

This has got to be one of the stupidest, most asinine ideas ever to come out of a state legislature...and that's really saying a lot.

Why?

No one cares if a police officer carries a gun into a school.

Why not a teacher or an administrator, one with similar -- or better -- training?

Who is more likely to be at the scene of a school shooting - a teacher or a cop?

 

[Goobieman]

Are you guys nuts?? No! HELL no! Look, I am a teacher, and even if I weren't a pacifist, I still wouldn't want guns put into schools. There are plenty of teachers that I would not trust to have guns on campus, and if you think back and remember the alcoholics, the dirty old men/dirty old women types, the crackpots and whackos that still teach because they will have tenure until the day they die, I think you'd agree.

This is just silly.

If one of these people was of a mind to do something in a school with a gun, their being allowed/disallowed to have one there would not matter one whit.

No one questions police officers having a gun in shcool, and yet they are just as likely to suffer from the maladies you describe.

More to the point, I don't believe that arming teachers would really make that much difference. A school is a big place, with a lot of access points, a lot of students congregating in open areas; there's just too many targets. If you had a situation like Klebold and Harris at Columbine, where they actually roamed the halls looking for specific victims, then armed teachers might make a difference; but most school shootings seem to follow a similar pattern: psycho shows up with guns and ammo, starts firing into the first crowd he sees, and does not leave the area until he runs out of ammo or gets taken down. There's no way teachers could react fast enough to prevent that, unless you're talking about teachers packing sidearms in holsters and roaming the grounds like guards, and that's not what we do.

Any chance is better than no chance.
Never mind that its just as possible that someone will show up right in front of an armed teacher as it is that an armed teacher wont be around.