Tea Party Favorites need a lesson in History?

[hazlnut]

Your links don't claim that they said those things.

Yes they did. You need video?

 

[mertex]

Your links don't claim that they said those things. They said similar things which were true and/or debatable. This thread is a straw man.

Just like all Republicans/conservatives, they will hedge and squirm, but will not admit that Bachmann is an air-head comparable to Palin, who doesn't know much. How in the heck did she ever get elected to Represent a state is beyond me.

Here is a clip, and you will hear the words coming out of her mouth - she said it, so don't deny it. She claimed that John Quincy Adams would not rest until slavery was "no more" - FYI, John Quincy Adams died before the Civil War even took place, so there isn't a more explicit "rest" than being dead!

Your speakers (Bachmann/Palin) makes fools of themselves and then Republicans further make fools of themselves trying to defend them. Watch this Sal guy, and how he hems and haws when asked when slavery ended - he can't bare to admit that Bachman just made a total ass of herself.

 

[Zyphlin]

Ha,ha, another conservative trying desperately to find some wiggle room, and save the "Princess" from the Dragon - which by the way, you are too late.

Haha. Someone here doesn't apparently know me or read me. I don't like Sarah Palin. I've stated publicly I would likely never be able to vote for Sarah Palin. She became persona non grata to me as a politican the moment she started to pander to Birthers. I've got no problem calling her out on issues she has, which is evident in the other thread talking about this where I point out how ridiculous it is for her to claim that "Sputnik" is what led to USSR going bankrupt.

However, disliking her doesn't change the fact that your point is ridiculous.

The Dragon already ate her, back when she claimed that she had foreign policy experience because you can see Russia from Alaska and Putin flies over her house! Way back when she claimed she read all the magazines and newspapers! OMG! Imagine how long it would take to read all those magazines and newspapers!

What does her past issues have to do with you ignorantly taking a pot shot at her for something that wasn't technically any more wrong then your assertions?

Even Wikipedia describes it as:

The launch of Sputnik inaugurated the Space Race. This culminated in the Apollo Moon landings, which astronaut Frank Borman later described as "just a battle in the Cold War."

So you're taking a publicly accessible and updated web board primarily focused towards a United States centric view of the world as "proof" of officially when the space race began?

LOL

How does that disprove any of my previous points. Not to mention, your idiotic argument doesn't even hold up. Lets look at a few things, first from your wiki article:

Under the title "The Space Race Begins"

The Space Race begins
In 1955, with both the United States and the Soviet Union building ballistic missiles that could be utilized to launch objects into space, the "starting line" was drawn for the Space Race.[31] In separate announcements, just four days apart, both nations publicly announced that they would launch artificial Earth satellites by 1957 or 1958.[

And from your Wiki article, who was the first to launch an earth satellite?

that's when Korolyev and his team celebrated the first successful artificial satellite placed into Earth-orbit.

Second, lets look at Palin's actual quote:

"When [The President] so often repeated the Sputnik Moment that he would aspire Americans to celebrate. He needs to remember that what happened back then with the former communist USSR and their victory in that race to space, yeah, they won, but they also incurred so much debt at the time that it led to the inevitable collapse of the Soviet Union."

A race TO SPACE is absolutely reasonable to be referring to a RACE to...get this, I know its going to be difficult...SPACE.

Seriously, going after Palin on this idiotic and the fact you act like you're superior or somehow more correct shows you on par with the level of intellectual respect you perceive unto Sarah Palin.

 

[mertex]

Haha. Someone here doesn't apparently know me or read me. I don't like Sarah Palin. I've stated publicly I would likely never be able to vote for Sarah Palin. She became persona non grata to me as a politican the moment she started to pander to Birthers. I've got no problem calling her out on issues she has, which is evident in the other thread talking about this where I point out how ridiculous it is for her to claim that "Sputnik" is what led to USSR going bankrupt.

However, disliking her doesn't change the fact that your point is ridiculous.

Ha,ha, like you are so important that I pulled all your posts to figure out where you stand on the issue of Sarah Palin! And, furthermore, it isn't just my point. If you want to defend Palin on this one, even though you claim you don't like her, the fact that you are not calling her out on this issue because in "your opinion" she is right just proves that you think you hold the key to what is and what isn't right. Did the thought ever occur to you that both of you might be wrong? Hmmmm.

What does her past issues have to do with you ignorantly taking a pot shot at her for something that wasn't technically any more wrong then your assertions?

Proves just how vapid she is. And I wasn't ignorantly taking a pot shot at her, those are facts, whether you like them or not. Apparently that went over your head, or your statement about not liking her is a facade to cover up the truth, your infatuation with her.

So you're taking a publicly accessible and updated web board primarily focused towards a United States centric view of the world as "proof" of officially when the space race began?

And, what are you taking as your proof that she is right? Yours and a bunch of Palin drooler's opinion? LOL! Maybe Palin isn't the only one that needs a refresher in History.

On May 25, 1961, President Kennedy announced what would become the space race's finish line: the moon. Following cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's inaugural trip into space, Kennedy's vow to get a man on the moon by 1970 raised the bar in the space rivalry with something that would overshadow the USSR's previous string of successes. As though playing an international game of poker, Kennedy put all the American chips on the table.

Tank on the Moon: Taking Flight
The U.S. accomplishes its mission of having men walk on the moon and the Soviet Union is left waiting in the wings. Learn more about NASA and the space race in this video. (March, 2008)

HowStuffWorks "Did NASA win the space race?"

How does that disprove any of my previous points. Not to mention, your idiotic argument doesn't even hold up. Lets look at a few things, first from your wiki article:

Under the title "The Space Race Begins"

I wish I could remember your previous point, but they are not important, and I'm not really motivated to look them up, so we'll just go with whatever you have to offer on this post. And contrary to what she said the USSR didn't even spend half of what we did.

This space race also took place in the context of dramatically different resources. While the United States spent $25 billion on the Apollo program to the moon, the USSR spent half that at most [source: Keller]. In fact, the Soviet Union publicly denied its engagement in a lunar program, although declassified documents have shown otherwise.
HowStuffWorks "Did NASA win the space race?"

And from your Wiki article, who was the first to launch an earth satellite?

Ha,ha, so the fact that Russia was the first to launch a satellite makes them the winners? This wasn't a sprint, it was more like a marathon. So, like Wiki stated, it inaugurated (which means started) the race!

Second, lets look at Palin's actual quote:

A race TO SPACE is absolutely reasonable to be referring to a RACE to...get this, I know its going to be difficult...SPACE.

Ha,ha, it isn't that there was a race to S P A C E - (there, I typed it slowly, like you like it). It is what the whole space venture was called - Space Race! It wasn't about who would get to space first - maybe that is where you and Palin are confused.

Seriously, going after Palin on this idiotic and the fact you act like you're superior or somehow more correct shows you on par with the level of intellectual respect you perceive unto Sarah Palin.

Seriously, that you would take the time to defend her and even try to explain what she is thinking (as if she can think), just shows that you are at the same level or below poor Palin.

 

[Zyphlin]

Ha,ha, like you are so important that I pulled all your posts to figure out where you stand on the issue of Sarah Palin! And, furthermore, it isn't just my point. If you want to defend Palin on this one, even though you claim you don't like her, the fact that you are not calling her out on this issue because in "your opinion" she is right just proves that you think you hold the key to what is and what isn't right. Did the thought ever occur to you that both of you might be wrong? Hmmmm.

I'm not saying she's right. I'm saying she's not wrong. The "Space Race" or more specifically what she said "the race to space" can very easily be viewed in different parameters. So I'm saying her opinion of it is valid, as is yours as to what you think it is. What's not valid is suggesting she's absolutely incorrect.

Proves just how vapid she is. And I wasn't ignorantly taking a pot shot at her, those are facts, whether you like them or not. Apparently that went over your head, or your statement about not liking her is a facade to cover up the truth, your infatuation with her.

ROLF about infatuation.

Whether or not she's "vapid" doesn't change the fact her statement could easily fall into the realm of factually correct. Being stupid at times doesn't mean you're always stupid.

And, what are you taking as your proof that she is right? Yours and a bunch of Palin drooler's opinion? LOL! Maybe Palin isn't the only one that needs a refresher in History.

What am I taking proof that its right? That the first people to make it to space were the Russians. Show me where there is a clear cut unquestionable, definitive, "officially" recognized by all sides "beginning" and "end" of "The race to space". You can't. You showed me a wiki article and acted as if that proves anything. Its an objective definition that has no specific answer. Which is why I would say someone stating that the Russians won it by getting to space and the Americans won it by getting to the Moon as correct...however I'd probably say either person telling the other one that they're a vapid dumbass for suggesting the opposite of them would qualify themselves as wrong.

On May 25, 1961, President Kennedy announced what would become the space race's finish line: the moon. Following cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's inaugural trip into space, Kennedy's vow to get a man on the moon by 1970 raised the bar in the space rivalry with something that would overshadow the USSR's previous string of successes. As though playing an international game of poker, Kennedy put all the American chips on the table.

Congratulations. You've proved my point, yet again, that the AMERICAN's declared the situation differently because they got beat to space by the Russians and thus they had to rehash the playing field. Glad you're finally addressing my point I made two posts ago...now if you could only counter it.

I've never denied the generalized American teaching is that the "Space Race" was won by landing on the moon. I've stated that it is a very americanized version of it because the Americans got BEAT to getting to space first and thus had to move the goal posts to be able to create a history in which they "won".

Ha,ha, so the fact that Russia was the first to launch a satellite makes them the winners? This wasn't a sprint, it was more like a marathon. So, like Wiki stated, it inaugurated (which means started) the race!

Its as reasonable to suggest that the first people INTO SPACE won the "race to space" as to suggest that hte first people that made it to the moon somehow won the "race to space". You know, seeing how they made it to SPACE first.

Ha,ha, it isn't that there was a race to S P A C E - (there, I typed it slowly, like you like it). It is what the whole space venture was called - Space Race! It wasn't about who would get to space first - maybe that is where you and Palin are confused.

Yes, how silly...using logic. Silly me. It is obviously ridiculous to suggest that the first people to make it into space could be considered the people to have won the race to first make it into space.

:roll:

 

[SheWolf]

I have heard it defined both ways, but my teachers have always defined it as getting to the moon, so I have always believed that. It could be wrong though.

I thought getting to the moon is how American's defined winning the space race... and that that was taught in school as winning it.

 

[SheWolf]

99.9999% wrong.

And her latest WTF brain fart means that communism worked, it was just all that money they spent on competing with us that brought them down...

Does it also mean that Palin is opposed to the moon landing and all future and past space expeditions?

 

[SheWolf]

Anyone ever have friends or brothers when they were growing up? You get out of the car and go "Race you to the house!" and off you go. But when it looks like the other ones is going to make it to the house first you quickly go "Its first to get into the couch in the living room!" figuring that'll give you at least a shot to catch up.

That's essentially what's happened with regards to how the U.S. determined what the "Space Race" was. The first into SPACE was the USSR...but, that makes for ****ty material in a 6th grade text book in America. So the goalpost was quickly changed to the Moon, which the U.S. won.

Honestly, the most accurate way to describe it in my mind would be the Race to Space and the Race to the Moon.

The overall "Space Race" moniker is broad and impossible to truly define, making Palin's words no more dumb or uneducated than the OP's mocking of her.

Anybody ever play a game of risk? If somebody attacks you and wins, it doesn't mean you've lost the game. You can lose a battle, but still win the war. lol

The space race was constantly changing... USA and USSR were constantly trying to outdo each other in every way (technology, innovation, impossible achievements).. it didn't start and end with launching something into space. The space race began with launching something into space. The moon landing marked the pinnacle of accomplishments in space, and everybody knows that. Whose technology won?

In Civilization Revolution that's what you call a technology victory, and you can't win a space war or any war with inferior technology.

I like games involving world domination.

 

[X Factor]

Ha,ha, I knew the conservatives would jump at the opportunity to defend the Sacred Mother, even at the expense of appearing like fools!

Speaking of fools...you couldn't see the "Very Liberal" lean in Spud's profile? And you call Bachman and Palin stupid? I'll have to find my irony meter.

Anyway, do I have your consent to make your quote my sig?

 

[cpwill]

the first article is absurd; the second is simply reaching.


however, the space race (specifically SDI) did indeed play a massive role in breaking the Soviet Union.

 

[mpg]

I thought getting to the moon is how American's defined winning the space race... and that that was taught in school as winning it.

The media was using the term "space race" before either country put a man in space. When the Russians did it first, it was a big embarrassment for Eisenhower. It wasn't until after that when Kennedy decided to go to the Moon, and that wasn't a race because the Russians never even attempted to put a man on the Moon. Whether or not the US lost the space race is a matter of opinion, but it's just plain false to say that Palin is factually incorrect.

 

[Josie]

Bachmann went on to give credit to the Founding Fathers for ending slavery.

She did nothing of the kind. The Founders should be credited with trying to bring an end to slavery by ending the Atlantic slave trade in 1808 and not allowing the southern states to count each slave in the Census, thereby, not allowing them a majority in the House so they could continue on with slavery. The majority of our Founders were against slavery and wanted it to be outlawed. It's a little ridiculous how so many Americans don't seem to know that.

 

[Josie]

P.S. Watch and listen. John Quincy Adams comes up at the end of the video.

Josh calls to argue 3/5 clause, fails spectacularly – Glenn Beck

 

[Zyphlin]

Anybody ever play a game of risk? If somebody attacks you and wins, it doesn't mean you've lost the game. You can lose a battle, but still win the war. lol

That's because Risk is a game of "World Domination".

If Risk was a game of "Race to capture a country" then you'd assume that it'd be reasonable to suggest the the first person who captured a country won.

Seriously, I'm not saying your version of what the Space Race can mean is incorrect. Its correct and a very, very americanized view of it. I'm simply stating that it is not an absolute truth and unquestionable definition as it is completely reasonable to also suggest the the "race to space" was the RACE to get to SPACE...not to get to the moon.

 

[Zyphlin]

however, the space race (specifically SDI) did indeed play a massive role in breaking the Soviet Union.

Accept Palin's comment specifically suggested they accrued so much debt at the time of SPUTNIK that it resulted in their collapse. That's an asinine statement. However, its not the one the poster of this thread decided to focus on.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Tea Party favorites Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin took it upon themselves to critique the President's State of the Union Address and what they ended up doing was showing the country how under educated they really are when it comes to History.

Bachmann went on to give credit to the Founding Fathers for ending slavery. I guess because she wasn't around during the Civil War, she may think it didn't take place. Is that another Republican re-write of History?

All she's doing is dispelling the myth put forth by the left, that the founding fathers were nothing more than racist, wealth hoarding elitists. The fact that they established a government that would rapidly work to equality for all is proof that they did work tirelessly to end slavery. Did it happen immediately? No. but it also took 2 days to go 30 miles, so you can't expect the same amount of progress then as we do now.

Then Palin went so far as to give Russia credit for beating us to the moon? Obama rightly claimed our victory in Space when we were the only ones able to put men on the moon back in 1969 - but Palin rather than acknowledge our country's victory goes on to claim that Russia won the Space race! Then she claims that winning the space race caused Russia to collapse - only problem, it was 30 years later!

Well, you started this quote with a lie. Palin referred to sputnik and only sputnik. But, if you want to know the truth, the USSR was the first nation to make a soft landing on the moon. It was unmanned and came 3 years before Neil Armstrongs first steps.

I know the Republicans seem to show a disdain for Education, as they favor Presidential candidates of the "folksy" type, and criticize as elitists anyone with Super Duper education, but isn't this going a bit too far? Really, is this the type of representation that the GOP wants? Or, does the GOP even acknowledge them as part of the Republican Party?


Bachmann Claims Founding Fathers Ended Slavery

Sarah Palin thinks Russia Won the Space Race

Republicans have disdain for education? Check out this chart: Party Affiliation Versus Education Level - The Quantum Pontiff

Democrats
Did not grad. high school: 32%
Grad. high school: 49%
Junior College grad: 4%
Bachelor's Degree: 10%
Graduate Degree: 5%

Republicans
Did not grad. high school: 19%
Grad. high school: 53%
Junior College grad: 5%
Bachelor's Degree: 17%
Graduate Degree: 6%

 

[ksu_aviator]

Accept Palin's comment specifically suggested they accrued so much debt at the time of SPUTNIK that it resulted in their collapse. That's an asinine statement. However, its not the one the poster of this thread decided to focus on.

Let's not try to confuse the forest for a tree. Sputnik was part of the space race and therefore is part of the reason.

 

[hazlnut]

Republicans have disdain for education?

They certainly seem to have disdain for science.

 

[haymarket]

from KSU

All she's doing is dispelling the myth put forth by the left, that the founding fathers were nothing more than racist, wealth hoarding elitists. The fact that they established a government that would rapidly work to equality for all is proof that they did work tirelessly to end slavery.

There is no MYTH. The Founding Fathers established a Constitution where slavery was legal. Many of them owned slaves and profited from the ownership of human beings as livestock or property. The man who write the very words about all men being created equal and endowed with rights was a slave owner. They were all long dead,buried and worm food before it took a civil war with hundreds of thousands dead to correct their serious mistake. "work tirelessy to end slavery" what a joke. Is that like raping to make sure a woman does not make a willful decision to lose her virginity?

 

[hazlnut]

Republicans have disdain for education? Check out this chart: Party Affiliation Versus Education Level - The Quantum Pontiff

Democrats
Did not grad. high school: 32%
Grad. high school: 49%
Junior College grad: 4%
Bachelor's Degree: 10%
Graduate Degree: 5%

Republicans
Did not grad. high school: 19%
Grad. high school: 53%
Junior College grad: 5%
Bachelor's Degree: 17%
Graduate Degree: 6%

Unfortunately, it seems those well-educated right-leaning folks seek out careers in the private sector, leaving the underachieving and uneducated Palins and Bachmanns to fill the public sector jobs.

I'm all for the more successful, educated, GOPs stepping up to the mic and expressing their ideas--those on the right who have demonstrated excellence in their lives should take the mic from Palin before its too late.

 

[X Factor]

Unfortunately, it seems those well-educated right-leaning folks seek out careers in the private sector, leaving the underachieving and uneducated Palins and Bachmanns to fill the public sector jobs.

I'm all for the more successful, educated, GOPs stepping up to the mic and expressing their ideas--those on the right who have demonstrated excellence in their lives should take the mic from Palin before its too late.

Be real. There isn't one Republican that you would see as being intelligent, which is fine since the reverse is also true.

 

[hazlnut]

Be real. There isn't one Republican that you would see as being intelligent, which is fine since the reverse is also true.

Mitt Romney
Chris Christie
I even like Huckabee when he's not playing to the base.

As far as GOP Senators/Reps, if you watch the Sunday morning shows, there are many bright and hardworking people on the right, but their in depth analysis of complex issues doesn't make for good sound bytes, so during the week it seems like only train wrecks like Palin get the mic.

 

[mertex]

I'm not saying she's right. I'm saying she's not wrong. The "Space Race" or more specifically what she said "the race to space" can very easily be viewed in different parameters. So I'm saying her opinion of it is valid, as is yours as to what you think it is. What's not valid is suggesting she's absolutely incorrect.

That makes a lot of sense, she's not right, but she's not wrong! Bwahaha! Her statement was that Russia won the race to space. There was no race until Kennedy declared it a race, and the object was the moon.

Whether or not she's "vapid" doesn't change the fact her statement could easily fall into the realm of factually correct. Being stupid at times doesn't mean you're always stupid.

Only if you want to stretch it and try to guess what she was thinking (if she is able to think). The only ones defending her statement as being factually correct are those of the rep/con persuasion and a few that fantasize about her.

What am I taking proof that its right? That the first people to make it to space were the Russians. Show me where there is a clear cut unquestionable, definitive, "officially" recognized by all sides "beginning" and "end" of "The race to space".

I did, I posted the article where Kennedy was quoted as calling the race and making the moon the object of victory.

You can't. You showed me a wiki article and acted as if that proves anything. Its an objective definition that has no specific answer. Which is why I would say someone stating that the Russians won it by getting to space and the Americans won it by getting to the Moon as correct...however I'd probably say either person telling the other one that they're a vapid dumbass for suggesting the opposite of them would qualify themselves as wrong.

You didn't read ahead, I provided you with the quote from the originator of the race. And, her statement about the Space Race has little to do with her vapidness. She proved to be that way back when she was being interviewed after she was selected as the VP for McCain.

Congratulations. You've proved my point, yet again, that the AMERICAN's declared the situation differently because they got beat to space by the Russians and thus they had to rehash the playing field. Glad you're finally addressing my point I made two posts ago...now if you could only counter it.

Well, it appears that Palin is not the only one that is vapid. There was no race when the Russians first went into space. The race was declared by Kennedy, who was President, and the object was the moon. I guess if I repeat it enough, eventually you will get it, but I may be wrong.

I've never denied the generalized American teaching is that the "Space Race" was won by landing on the moon. I've stated that it is a very americanized version of it because the Americans got BEAT to getting to space first and thus had to move the goal posts to be able to create a history in which they "won".

Well, you are misinformed. The Russians were the first in space, but you are not in a race until someone declares a race. And the Space Race wasn't declared until after the Russians had gone to space, and Kennedy made the moon the object of the Race. Try as you may, you cannot change the facts. I know you are desperately trying to defend Failin, but the truth is, she made an ass of herself, again, as she freuently does. If you like her so much, you should invite her to come to your country and Represent your party. I'm sure she'll do a bangup job - and your country would not mind the fact that she doesn't know much - she would fit right in.

Its as reasonable to suggest that the first people INTO SPACE won the "race to space" as to suggest that hte first people that made it to the moon somehow won the "race to space". You know, seeing how they made it to SPACE first.

Blah, blah, blah, I've already explained it to you, now you are just being repetitious and not accomplishing much.

Yes, how silly...using logic. Silly me. It is obviously ridiculous to suggest that the first people to make it into space could be considered the people to have won the race to first make it into space.

Not only is it silly, it is stupid, because the race wasn't declared until after the Russians had gone to space, and the object of the race was the moon. So, learn something new. America won the Space Race, regardless of what you and Palin and any other bimbo has to say about it.

And by the way, how far into space has your country gone? And by that I don't mean Lalaland - it appears they already went there.

 

[The Barbarian]

The Space Race begins
In 1955, with both the United States and the Soviet Union building ballistic missiles that could be utilized to launch objects into space, the "starting line" was drawn for the Space Race.[31] In separate announcements, just four days apart, both nations publicly announced that they would launch artificial Earth satellites by 1957 or 1958.[

Now seeing this race was lost to the Russians.... the response by mertex is

On May 25, 1961, President Kennedy announced what would become the space race's finish line: the moon.

So let me get this perfectly clear, in 1955 both the Soviet Union and the US agree that a space race is started, the Soviet Union is the first to put a satellite into orbit, So along comes Kennedy in 1961 six years after the race to space is announced, and lost, and decides it's no longer a race into space.... but to the moon. -starts laughing uncontrollably- So six years later the race is redefined and now we win ???? Hey what ever floats your boat …..

 

[cpwill]

There is no MYTH. The Founding Fathers established a Constitution where slavery was legal. Many of them owned slaves and profited from the ownership of human beings as livestock or property. The man who write the very words about all men being created equal and endowed with rights was a slave owner. They were all long dead,buried and worm food before it took a civil war with hundreds of thousands dead to correct their serious mistake. "work tirelessy to end slavery" what a joke. Is that like raping to make sure a woman does not make a willful decision to lose her virginity?

:lol: and you claim that Bachman doesn't know her history.