Tax System Seen as Unfair, in Need of Overhaul

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

From Pew Research:

Public dissatisfaction with the tax system has grown over the past decade, and the focus of the public’s frustration is not how much they themselves pay, but rather the impression that wealthy people are not paying their fair share.

The number of Americans who feel they pay more than their fair share in federal taxes has dropped significantly over the past decade, from 55% in 2000 to 38% today. About half (52%) now say they pay the right amount in taxes. Yet at the same time, fewer see the overall tax system as even moderately fair (43%, down from 51% eight years ago), and roughly six-in-ten (59%) say that so much is wrong with the tax system that Congress should completely change it.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted Dec. 7-11, 2011 among 1,521 adults, finds that this sense of unfairness centers on the perception that wealthy Americans are not paying their fair share of taxes; 57% say this is what bothers them most about the tax system, while half as many (28%) point to the complexity of the system, and just 11% say that the high amount they have to pay is what bothers them the most.


Republicans and Democrats agree on the need for tax reform; majorities across party lines see the system as unfair and in need of a complete overhaul. Yet they differ substantially in their concerns, with Democrats overwhelmingly pointing to the share wealthy people pay as the biggest concern, while many Republicans identify the complexity of the system as the biggest problem.

Tax System Seen as Unfair, in Need of Overhaul | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Do you feel the feeling of the electorate toward the tax system and its problems will influence the election in 2012? If so, what do you think the effect will be?

Personally, I believe incumbents that have voted against raising taxes on the wealthy may be replaced by candidates who promise to change this.

 

[tessaesque]

I don't like the idea of taxing on the basis of income brackets alone for most Americans. I, for example, fall into one of the lower brackets and receive almost 2/3s of my total tax contribution back every year. I also pay no state or local tax. Sales tax here is .0825 on the dollar on average.

All said and done, not including gas, alcohol, car rentals, or other extraneous-tax items, I probably directly pay $1,300.00 total in sales tax and federal income taxes (including FICA, SSI, etc). That comes out to less than 5% of my income. Why am I paying so little (based on current brackets)? Deductions, exemptions, tuition reimbursements from the fed (on top of my grant)...etc., etc., etc.

Truth be told, if they took an extra $20, $40, even $100 out of every check and sent it to the fed to meet my tax obligation I'd never miss it. I budget my money around what I receive in net pay. Once my bills are paid and I've put money into savings I usually end up with a few hundred in discretionary income because I live well below my means (without sacrificing quality/safety) to avoid those "oh god, I have to choose food v. electricity" moments.

Do we need to overhaul the system? Yeah. But we shouldn't be targeting just the 1%...or 5%...or just those over $250k. We should base our taxation on each state's average COL, state/local tax obligations, the person's income, and family size....at least as long as we intend to utilize a "bracket" style system. There are plenty of people who aren't "rich" who could afford to pay more, and who pay far less than they consume in government services.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't like the idea of taxing on the basis of income brackets alone for most Americans. I, for example, fall into one of the lower brackets and receive almost 2/3s of my total tax contribution back every year. I also pay no state or local tax. Sales tax here is .0825 on the dollar on average.

All said and done, not including gas, alcohol, car rentals, or other extraneous-tax items, I probably directly pay $1,300.00 total in sales tax and federal income taxes (including FICA, SSI, etc). That comes out to less than 5% of my income. Why am I paying so little (based on current brackets)? Deductions, exemptions, tuition reimbursements from the fed (on top of my grant)...etc., etc., etc.

Truth be told, if they took an extra $20, $40, even $100 out of every check and sent it to the fed to meet my tax obligation I'd never miss it. I budget my money around what I receive in net pay. Once my bills are paid and I've put money into savings I usually end up with a few hundred in discretionary income because I live well below my means (with sacrificing quality/safety) to avoid those "oh god, I have to choose food v. electricity" moments.

Do we need to overhaul the system? Yeah. But we shouldn't be targeting just the 1%...or 5%...or just those over $250k. We should base our taxation on each state's average COL, state/local tax obligations, the person's income, and family size....at least as long as we intend to utilize a "bracket" style system. There are plenty of people who aren't "rich" who could afford to pay more, and who pay far less than they consume in government services.

While you make a good point, I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. school of thought. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) I think the last thing we need is a convoluted tax structure that's even more complicated than the one we have now.

 

[jambalaya]

The problem is why would anyone who is paying little or no taxes care whether the wealthy pay more taxes? Why would these people say "No, I want to pay more taxes too, don't just tax those rich people." These polls are filled with bias. How can you even quantify "fair share". The tax system is unfair but not with respect to just the rich. Everyone needs to pay more income tax and have a stake in what the government is doing with our money. Judicious changes in the tax code AND serious spending cuts is what we need.

 

[liblady]

From Pew Research:

Tax System Seen as Unfair, in Need of Overhaul | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Do you feel the feeling of the electorate toward the tax system and its problems will influence the election in 2012? If so, what do you think the effect will be?

Personally, I believe incumbents that have voted against raising taxes on the wealthy may be replaced by candidates who promise to change this.

i agree with you. when our country is in such a long term downturn, the people who really suffer are the poor and middle class. the really rich DO NOT SUFFER AT ALL. so the idea of "we are in this together", is, and always has been, a lie. we ask the poor to give up services, we ask the middle class to deal with no raises, job layoffs and credit tightening, yet we ask nothing of those who can afford it most. if they lose their jobs, they might have to sell one of their homes. if a middle class person loses his job, he might go into foreclosure on his ONLY home, and have to rent. if a poor person loses his job, he might have to live in his car. shared sacrifice, my ass. this is exactly why upward mobility has slowed to crawl in our country, and it's exactly why a majority of the people believe taxes should be raised on the wealthy. rant off/

 

[haymarket]

From Pew Research:

Tax System Seen as Unfair, in Need of Overhaul | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Do you feel the feeling of the electorate toward the tax system and its problems will influence the election in 2012? If so, what do you think the effect will be?

If things made sense in our political system, this sort of information about the public mood would certainly make a difference in the election. Sadly, the Republicans have drunk so much of the extreme right wing kool aid that they will NEVER turn from defending the rich against everyone else. Instead they will try to win elections through

1) brainwashing the middle class that they too can be rich and they better defend the rich
2) voter supression tactics intended to deny millions of likely Democratic voters the right to vote next November
3) redistricting designed to isolate Democrats and give Republicans the widest possible advantage at the polls
4) using the race card against Obama in a desperate attempt to tarnish him and scare middle America
5) twist, pervert and otherwise paint the worst possible untrue picture of the last years under President Obama

 

[Mycroft]

If things made sense in our political system, this sort of information about the public mood would certainly make a difference in the election. Sadly, the Republicans have drunk so much of the extreme right wing kool aid that they will NEVER turn from defending the rich against everyone else. Instead they will try to win elections through

1) brainwashing the middle class that they too can be rich and they better defend the rich
2) voter supression tactics intended to deny millions of likely Democratic voters the right to vote next November
3) redistricting designed to isolate Democrats and give Republicans the widest possible advantage at the polls
4) using the race card against Obama in a desperate attempt to tarnish him and scare middle America
5) twist, pervert and otherwise paint the worst possible untrue picture of the last years under President Obama

LOL!!!

Change a few terms and your post could perfectly describe the Democrats.

In my opinion, both Parties use the tactics you mention to advance their agendas. But the Democrats have the advantage of a sympathetic main stream media and THAT is the reason for these kinds of poll numbers.

 

[TurtleDude]

The problem is why would anyone who is paying little or no taxes care whether the wealthy pay more taxes? Why would these people say "No, I want to pay more taxes too, don't just tax those rich people." These polls are filled with bias. How can you even quantify "fair share". The tax system is unfair but not with respect to just the rich. Everyone needs to pay more income tax and have a stake in what the government is doing with our money. Judicious changes in the tax code AND serious spending cuts is what we need.

the political pimps who put into place the progressive income tax realized what power it would give them by being able to play the lower brackets off against the top

 

[haymarket]

the political pimps who put into place the progressive income tax realized what power it would give them by being able to play the lower brackets off against the top

Since the people who put the progressive income tax into law were a bipartisan group of both Republicans and Democrats, how is your statement even possible? Political pimps???? What does than even mean?

 

[apdst]

i agree with you. when our country is in such a long term downturn, the people who really suffer are the poor and middle class. the really rich DO NOT SUFFER AT ALL. so the idea of "we are in this together", is, and always has been, a lie. we ask the poor to give up services, we ask the middle class to deal with no raises, job layoffs and credit tightening, yet we ask nothing of those who can afford it most. if they lose their jobs, they might have to sell one of their homes. if a middle class person loses his job, he might go into foreclosure on his ONLY home, and have to rent. if a poor person loses his job, he might have to live in his car. shared sacrifice, my ass. this is exactly why upward mobility has slowed to crawl in our country, and it's exactly why a majority of the people believe taxes should be raised on the wealthy. rant off/

So, how is raising taxes on the, "really", rich going to fix anything?

 

[haymarket]

So, how is raising taxes on the, "really", rich going to fix anything?

Which is much like a husband asking his wife "how is me getting a second job instead sitting on my ass in front of the TV all evening going to help our economic situation?"

I strongly suspect every wife in America could answer that loud and clear.

 

[apdst]

Which is much like a husband asking his wife "how is me getting a second job instead sitting on my ass in front of the TV all evening going to help our economic situation?"

I strongly suspect every wife in America could answer that loud and clear.

Awesome answer! :lamo

 

[haymarket]

Awesome answer! :lamo

It was in keeping with the sentiment that we have heard over the years from conservatives and tea party members who tell us that America needs to be run more like a household budget.

So I tried to get in that spirit knowing that I am talking to a person from those representative groups.

 

[Mycroft]

Which is much like a husband asking his wife "how is me getting a second job instead sitting on my ass in front of the TV all evening going to help our economic situation?"

I strongly suspect every wife in America could answer that loud and clear.

On the other hand, the husband could just take the wife's credit card away from her.

(of course, she'll probably complain that the merchants in the mall would suffer...but, oh well)

 

[TurtleDude]

So, how is raising taxes on the, "really", rich going to fix anything?

It won't but it will do the following

1) give the dems an excuse to spend more to buy the votes of their minions

2) It will make the losers and the envious feel better

 

[JustinS]

It will make the losers...feel better.

I question your use of the term 'loser'. What exactly is a loser, by your standards? Do the people who could not recover from a heavy economic disadvantage count as 'losers'?

 

[TurtleDude]

I question your use of the term 'loser'. What exactly is a loser, by your standards? Do the people who could not recover from a heavy economic disadvantage count as 'losers'?

easy, people who blame the rich for their failure to achieve

 

[JustinS]

easy, people who blame the rich for their failure to achieve

I agree that the problem is not the rich (unless you mean the kind of rich people that lay off thousands of workers for profit), but the system will often put people at an extreme disadvantage. These people aren't losers if they cannot recover from substantial economic hardship.

 

[apdst]

It was in keeping with the sentiment that we have heard over the years from conservatives and tea party members who tell us that America needs to be run more like a household budget.

So I tried to get in that spirit knowing that I am talking to a person from those representative groups.

No, I think you confused a Liberal couple for Conservatives. :lamo

 

[Catawba]

From Pew Research:

Tax System Seen as Unfair, in Need of Overhaul | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Do you feel the feeling of the electorate toward the tax system and its problems will influence the election in 2012? If so, what do you think the effect will be?

Personally, I believe incumbents that have voted against raising taxes on the wealthy may be replaced by candidates who promise to change this.

We have a couple dozen polls this year that show that Americans support the presidents call for eliminating the tax breaks for the rich.

I wager the Republican's open class war on the working class is going to come back to bite them in November.

 

[Mycroft]

We have a couple dozen polls this year that show that Americans support the presidents call for eliminating the tax breaks for the rich.

I wager the Republican's open class war on the working class is going to come back to bite them in November.

Those polls only mean that Obama's "blame the rich" tactic is working...not that it's correct.

 

[TurtleDude]

We have a couple dozen polls this year that show that Americans support the presidents call for eliminating the tax breaks for the rich.

I wager the Republican's open class war on the working class is going to come back to bite them in November.

asking people if they want to pay more taxes or if they prefer someone ELSE pay more taxes

wow that is really convincing

 

[haymarket]

asking people if they want to pay more taxes or if they prefer someone ELSE pay more taxes

wow that is really convincing

It does not matter if you find it convincing or not. We live in a nation which has a system of government in which the people vote for representatives who then enact policies and laws on behalf of those same people. As such, the opinion of the people is essential and crucial in our system.

 

[TurtleDude]

It does not matter if you find it convincing or not. We live in a nation which has a system of government in which the people vote for representatives who then enact policies and laws on behalf of those same people. As such, the opinion of the people is essential and crucial in our system.

those who post those silly polls try to equate appeals to greed as proof of moral superiority

 

[Centinel]

those who post those silly polls try to equate appeals to greed as proof of moral superiority

But the majority is always morally right, Turtle.