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Take the Debt Ceiling Off the Table [W:70]

washunut said:
Again, while I would like the spending level to come down as you suggest my sense is that it should ramp down, lest the economy not be able to absorb the reduction in spending.
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Thats fine too, but thats why we need the debt ceiling, to force them to cut spending or raise taxes, or some other option that avoids borrowing more. Thats why credit card companies give you a debt limit, to reduce the risk of you borrowing more than you can afford.
 
jonny5 said:
Thats fine too, but thats why we need the debt ceiling, to force them to cut spending or raise taxes, or some other option that avoids borrowing more. Thats why credit card companies give you a debt limit, to reduce the risk of you borrowing more than you can afford.
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agreed, so we should raise the debt limit to allow for a reasonable glidepath of downward spending.
 
washunut said:
I know of no budget proposal, including the Ryan budget that gets to balance this fiscal year. So we can debate what a new limit should be, but we need an increase. If either side wants no increase they should show us their path to balance this fiscal year. Otherwise we are wasting a bunch of time and credibility on something that can't happen.
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This is what we have been doing. Lets raise the debt ceiling...THEN we'll figure it out. Oopps...I mean...THEN we will figure it out. Psych...THEN we will figure it out. Just kidding...no...really...THIS time....
 
VanceMack said:
This is what we have been doing. Lets raise the debt ceiling...THEN we'll figure it out. Oopps...I mean...THEN we will figure it out. Psych...THEN we will figure it out. Just kidding...no...really...THIS time....
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There is nothing wrong with deficit spending, especially right now. And anyone that thinks the debt ceiling is a reasonable tool to enact budgetary change is an extremist.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
There is nothing wrong with deficit spending, especially right now. And anyone that thinks the debt ceiling is a reasonable tool to enact budgetary change is an extremist.
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Granted...I'm an 'extremist'. I think it is completely reckless and irresponsible to spend money like crack fiends. And like that crack fiend what exactly do you have to show for it except an ever widening debt sinkhole? Yeah...Im an 'extremist'. Im not thrilled and a little pissed that my grandkids and great grandkids are going to be stuck with the bill for generations of irresponsibility and stupidity.

RESPONSIBLE government spending...yeah...thats...'extremist thinking'.
 
VanceMack said:
Granted...I'm an 'extremist'. I think it is completely reckless and irresponsible to spend money like crack fiends. And like that crack fiend what exactly do you have to show for it except an ever widening debt sinkhole? Yeah...Im an 'extremist'. Im not thrilled and a little pissed that my grandkids and great grandkids are going to be stuck with the bill for generations of irresponsibility and stupidity.

RESPONSIBLE government spending...yeah...thats...'extremist thinking'.
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The US national debt isn't a "sinkhole". It isn't even a bad thing. There is no "bill" with which to be stuck. Threatening to topple the economy is indeed extremist.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The US national debt isn't a "sinkhole". It isn't even a bad thing. There is no "bill" with which to be stuck. Threatening to topple the economy is indeed extremist.
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Tell that to the people holding that debt. And again...its comical (no...wait...very very sad) that fiscal responsibility is deemed extremist.

We should just spend another 30-40 trillion...maybe give every citizen a cool million. Hey...theres a stimulus plan for your ass right there...the economy would just BOOM. 40 trillion...50 trillion...who cares> Interest rates? Pill it up. Interest payments? Well just keep taking it onto the debt. EVERYONE wins!

Its funny...absolutely NOTHING gets done regarding spending til the debt ceiling is reached...then...people that oppose the ever increasing debt limits...THEY are the bad guys.
 
VanceMack said:
Tell that to the people holding that debt.
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I don't see what the US national debt has to do with US bondholders. You buy a bond, it matures and you get paid. Doesn't matter what the national debt is at. There is no way that the US government would be unable to meet its debt obligations outside of congress choosing not to (as it apparently is currently).

And again...its comical (no...wait...very very sad) that fiscal responsibility is deemed extremist.
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Regardless of the goal, the means of going about it are extremist. I would say the same thing if it was dems threatening to have the government default on its debt obligations. Doesn't matter why it's being done.

We should just spend another 30-40 trillion...maybe give every citizen a cool million. Hey...theres a stimulus plan for your ass right there...the economy would just BOOM. 40 trillion...50 trillion...who cares> Interest rates? Pill it up. Interest payments? Well just keep taking it onto the debt. EVERYONE wins!
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You debt-hawks sure do love a slippery slope.

Its funny...absolutely NOTHING gets done regarding spending til the debt ceiling is reached...then...people that oppose the ever increasing debt limits...THEY are the bad guys.
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That's because your buddies in congress that are opposing the raising of the debt ceiling aren't budget hawks, because congress already approved and spent the money they are refusing to pay back.

It's like saying you're fighting for responsible spending when you max out your credit card but refuse to pay it off. ;)
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I don't see what the US national debt has to do with US bondholders. You buy a bond, it matures and you get paid. Doesn't matter what the national debt is at. There is no way that the US government would be unable to meet its debt obligations outside of congress choosing not to (as it apparently is currently).



Regardless of the goal, the means of going about it are extremist. I would say the same thing if it was dems threatening to have the government default on its debt obligations. Doesn't matter why it's being done.



You debt-hawks sure do love a slippery slope.



That's because your buddies in congress that are opposing the raising of the debt ceiling aren't budget hawks, because congress already approved and spent the money they are refusing to pay back.

It's like saying you're fighting for responsible spending when you max out your credit card but refuse to pay it off. ;)
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The debt has doubled in 5 years. Weve goe from around 2 to 17 trillion debt in 10 years. We accrued 450 billion in new debt in interest alone in 2013. Its not getting better it is getting worse. There is absolutely zero effort to curb spending. Congress' best and brightest (my computer almost caught fire typing that) couldnt manage to find 2 trillion in DEFICIT cuts over a 10 year span. But...its those that are opposed to mindlessly adding 2-3 trillion in debt a year that are the real 'threat'...
 
VanceMack said:
The debt has doubled in 5 years. Weve goe from around 2 to 17 trillion debt in 10 years. We accrued 450 billion in new debt in interest alone in 2013. Its not getting better it is getting worse. There is absolutely zero effort to curb spending. Congress' best and brightest (my computer almost caught fire typing that) couldnt manage to find 2 trillion in DEFICIT cuts over a 10 year span. But...its those that are opposed to mindlessly adding 2-3 trillion in debt a year that are the real 'threat'...
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Yeah but that doesn't even really mean anything.
 
VanceMack said:
Tell that to the people holding that debt. .
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So you want to default on the debt because you want to protect those holding the debt?

Curiouser and curiouser
 
VanceMack said:
The debt has doubled in 5 years. Weve goe from around 2 to 17 trillion debt in 10 years. We accrued 450 billion in new debt in interest alone in 2013. Its not getting better it is getting worse. There is absolutely zero effort to curb spending. Congress' best and brightest (my computer almost caught fire typing that) couldnt manage to find 2 trillion in DEFICIT cuts over a 10 year span. But...its those that are opposed to mindlessly adding 2-3 trillion in debt a year that are the real 'threat'...
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Yep, we need to raise taxes on the top bracket and cut the military to the bone.

But wait . . . you're against that. O for fun!
 
Folks. Understand that, if the U.S. defaults on debts, it is because the President made a consciencious decision to do so. Default doesn't mean that the government delays paying bills. It means they fail to pay interest on the debt. The House is simply denying him an increase in the credit line. It happens to companies and individuals. Companies reduce their overhead operate within their income. Individuals don't buy what they were planning to buy with the borrowed money. It isn't crisis except in the political sense. All Obama needs to do is to shut down a couple of useless cabinet departments, stop giving money to other governments and the U.N. etc etc. He could put the government back on a steady track at a lower spending level withiin a week. I could do it. The government is not going to default. It is a scare tactic. What you see is a president and a house speaker battling for each others power. It doesn't matter whit in the overall scheme of things.

The shutdown is hurting me personally. My company has lost money the past week because people have stopped spending. So I will reduce my spending to compensate. It isn't rocket science. It is political hackery. Those people turn my stomach.
 
fmw said:
Folks. Understand that, if the U.S. defaults on debts, it is because the President made a consciencious decision to do so. Default doesn't mean that the government delays paying bills. It means they fail to pay interest on the debt. The House is simply denying him an increase in the credit line. It happens to companies and individuals. Companies reduce their overhead operate within their income. Individuals don't buy what they were planning to buy with the borrowed money. It isn't crisis except in the political sense. All Obama needs to do is to shut down a couple of useless cabinet departments, stop giving money to other governments and the U.N. etc etc. He could put the government back on a steady track at a lower spending level withiin a week. I could do it. The government is not going to default. It is a scare tactic. What you see is a president and a house speaker battling for each others power. It doesn't matter whit in the overall scheme of things.

The shutdown is hurting me personally. My company has lost money the past week because people have stopped spending. So I will reduce my spending to compensate. It isn't rocket science. It is political hackery. Those people turn my stomach.
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I don't think you understand how government spending works, considering that you're blaming Obama for it...
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I don't think you understand how government spending works, considering that you're blaming Obama for it...
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I didn't blame Obama for anything. I only said that if the government decides to stop paying interest on its debt rather than to stop funding some government functions and the governments of other countries, that is a consciencious decision. It has nothing to do with the credit line. The credit line, like all credit lines, is for more spending. The government is not going to default. Heck it isn't even shut down. Don't start with me. I'm up to my ears with this fear mongering. Knock it off.
 
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fmw said:
Oh please. Don't start with me. Next you're going to tell me the president is an innocent bystander while the congress runs the country into ground. Don't even start.
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Yeah, no facts please. Just conservative talking points.
 
You wouldn't recognize a fact if it put a hole in your rear end.
 
fmw said:
I didn't blame Obama for anything. I only said that if the government decides to stop paying interest on its debt rather than to stop funding some government functions and the governments of other countries, that is a consciencious decision. It has nothing to do with the credit line. The credit line, like all credit lines, is for more spending. The government is not going to default. Heck it isn't even shut down. Don't start with me. I'm up to my ears with this fear mongering. Knock it off.
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You clearly don't know how government spending works, which is the point here. Obama has little to do with this.
 
jonny5 said:
Irrelevant. Ryans budget was a BUDGET, setting spending levels for the next decade, and many different policies. This CR would only authorize spending for 3 months, at blanket levels with no priorities. Apples and oranges.
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The Republicans got all the "priorities" they asked for including the Nov. 15 end date of this legislation. Obama wanted a year.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Baiting and attacks will result in infractions and / or thread bans. Be careful.
 
washunut said:
agreed, so we should raise the debt limit to allow for a reasonable glidepath of downward spending.
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If you could get democrats to agree to significant cuts in spending first, then sure, raise it.
 
iguanaman said:
The Republicans got all the "priorities" they asked for including the Nov. 15 end date of this legislation. Obama wanted a year.
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Except defunding of Obamacare. But Im not sure what has to do with the difference between a Budget and a CR.
 
jonny5 said:
If you could get democrats to agree to significant cuts in spending first, then sure, raise it.
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That is the deal I would like to see.
 
jonny5 said:
It really sounds like youve come around to the idea that the debt ceiling HAS to be on the table.
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I think the size of the increase along with how we get back to a sustainable budget have to be on the table.
 
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