Taiwan Calls Troops Back From Leave To ‘Immediately Prepare For War’ As Pelosi Set To Visit Island: Reports

[reflechissez]

You just called for the death of the speaker of the house, and for the entire crew and passengers of a US military transport.

Have you no shame?

He does not.

 

[reflechissez]

And you're a looney. You think me making a joke about the Chinese shooting down Pelosi's plane is some kind of sin. It's not a sin it's called humor. Get the hell over yourself.

So now, it's humor. Ok.

 

[reflechissez]

I used to teach Geography (and most other Social Studies classes)

You should keep that to yourself.

 

[Gatsby]

No. I see no reason to extend that evil despot a face-saving gesture.

It's not about doing him a favor, it's about not doing anything provocative during a time when he might feel he needs to prove himself.

First, he already has full control over the Chinese Communist Party.

He might be less confident in that assessment than you are.

Any move he makes or refrains from making will be met with sycophantic praise. Second, neither we nor Taiwan will be shown gratitude for it.

We don't need gratitude. We should avoid inflaming the situation over what amounts to a token gesture though, especially right now. It might be different if Pelosi were going there for some major treaty or something. But we aren't even getting anything that important from this.

I am certain China is not going to do anything because they cannot do anything.

Lots of wars get started when one side is certain they know how the other will respond.

Unless they want a lot of their planes shot down and their vast navy of coast guard-level vessels sunk. And that is if the United States remains uninvolved.

China is not Russia. It is a very large adversary with a formidable military. Probably not as strong as ours, but they're a lot closer to where the action would be and they care about the outcome more.

The fact that people are casually talking about shooting down Chinese planes and sinking Chinese ships (and that's apparently WITHOUT America being involved ) is alarming. And is exactly what i mean by overlearning the lessons of the Russia-Ukraine War. Not every adversary is immediately going to collapse in the face of the slightest resistance.

And I do not think anyone would seriously consider making moves against him if nothing is done over the Pelosi visit.

Let's hope Xi thinks so too.

No one in the Soviet Union seriously contemplated ousting Stalin for not going to war to recapture Yugoslavia when Tito gave him and the Comintern the finger. No one is going to oust Xi.

I don't really care if they oust him or not. I do care if Xi decides to attack Taiwan because he's worried about being ousted.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

China sees a visit by Pelosi as a step towards the US recognizing Taiwan as a separate country. Possibly correctly, though what Pelosi wants is actually rather irrelevant. Third most important person in US politics, is just a step above handing out leaflets in the carpark.

I expect their threats will fail, and they won't do anything more than sail close to Taiwan's territorial borders. Maybe fire some missiles into the sea. But their displeasure at the visit compounded with failure of their threats, will lead to trade repercussions because they hate to be faced down.

I actually don't care about trade war. It hurts both sides but in the long term it might be good for the US. We will see more help for domestic producers (like the CHIPS act) and possibly more trade with Europe if the Chinese displeasure extends to them. But one thing is definitely bad, it's closer ties between Russia and China.

China doesn't have what it needs to invade and occupy Taiwan, and until it does (with a big margin at that) they won't attack. On the other hand, if they planned to do nothing, they wouldn't be making such a show of resolve now.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No. I see no reason to extend that evil despot a face-saving gesture.

This is provocative and childish language

First, he already has full control over the Chinese Communist Party. Any move he makes or refrains from making will be met with sycophantic praise. Second, neither we nor Taiwan will be shown gratitude for it. I am certain China is not going to do anything because they cannot do anything. Unless they want a lot of their planes shot down and their vast navy of coast guard-level vessels sunk. And that is if the United States remains uninvolved.

The Ukranians are making up war heroes and losing a third of their country due to such Hubris. Taiwan will not be as lucky as that, Taiwan is on an island and in range of Chinese missiles and long range artillery. They will be trapped on the island.

And I do not think anyone would seriously consider making moves against him if nothing is done over the Pelosi visit.

No one in the Soviet Union seriously contemplated ousting Stalin for not going to war to recapture Yugoslavia when Tito gave him and the Comintern the finger. No one is going to oust Xi.

It might not even be the issue of Pelosi’s visit. China is strong now and it’s clear the US is weak, because we can barely keep the Ukies in the fight and we have no more excess production capacity nor the ability to even fully staff our own military. China may be looking for the pretext to take back Taiwan while circumstances are favorable

 

[Lex Talionis]

you're saying it would be good for China to kill one of our politicians.

is that kind of comment okay on this board?

As long as it's not aimed at another forum member, the admins on this board don't care about violent rhetoric. God forbid, don't call another member something insulting.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

China sees a visit by Pelosi as a step towards the US recognizing Taiwan as a separate country. Possibly correctly, though what Pelosi wants is actually rather irrelevant. Third most important person in US politics, is just a step above handing out leaflets in the carpark.

I expect their threats will fail, and they won't do anything more than sail close to Taiwan's territorial borders. Maybe fire some missiles into the sea. But their displeasure at the visit compounded with failure of their threats, will lead to trade repercussions because they hate to be faced down.

I actually don't care about trade war. It hurts both sides but in the long term it might be good for the US. We will see more help for domestic producers (like the CHIPS act) and possibly more trade with Europe if the Chinese displeasure extends to them. But one thing is definitely bad, it's closer ties between Russia and China.

China doesn't have what it needs to invade and occupy Taiwan, and until it does (with a big margin at that) they won't attack. On the other hand, if they planned to do nothing, they wouldn't be making such a show of resolve now.

I don’t think that’s in any way for certain. China really doesn’t need to invade and occupy, not immediately, cutting off the sea and air, which is well within their capability will lead to a starving Taiwan.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

you're saying it would be good for China to kill one of our politicians.

is that kind of comment okay on this board?

People were calling for the death of Russian President Vladimir Putin over the liberation of the Donbas Rus, and we have Russian members of the forum.

 

[choiceone]

You just called for the death of the speaker of the house, and for the entire crew and passengers of a US military transport.

Have you no shame?

I agree. For example, I utterly despise all the justices and elected government leaders who support anti-abortion laws, but I don't propose that they be shot. If I could, I'd just send them back to one of the past centuries they belong in.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

This is provocative and childish language

The Ukranians are making up war heroes and losing a third of their country due to such Hubris. Taiwan will not be as lucky as that, Taiwan is on an island and in range of Chinese missiles and long range artillery. They will be trapped on the island.

If China's aim was to just kill them all. But that doesn't make a lot of sense: physically Taiwan would only be a tiny addition to China.

It might not even be the issue of Pelosi’s visit. China is strong now and it’s clear the US is weak, because we can barely keep the Ukies in the fight and we have no more excess production capacity nor the ability to even fully staff our own military. China may be looking for the pretext to take back Taiwan while circumstances are favorable

You're thinking only of the US side of the equation. China's military will be a lot bigger and more capable in the future, so that's a reason to keep the status quo regarding Taiwan: ie China's claim has not been extinguished by Taiwan OR the US.

For that matter, Trumpism returning with its element of isolationism would be a better opportunity than the US's current small engagement in Ukraine. The US could easily afford heavier weapons for Zelinsky but Biden chooses not to send them (for reasons, mind you). It's just bizarre to claim that a military built on the presumption of two major wars at once, is overstretched now. What the hell have they been doing with all that money?

 

[choiceone]

If China's aim was to just kill them all. But that doesn't make a lot of sense: physically Taiwan would only be a tiny addition to China. . . .

This is more than true. After Hong Kong reverted to China, lots of educated Taiwanese made large efforts to get second passports, notably for Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Placed in a situation of sufficient fear, huge numbers of them would go abroad and take refuge in their "other country." So China wouldn't get what it would want, those highly educated economically useful workers.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If China's aim was to just kill them all. But that doesn't make a lot of sense: physically Taiwan would only be a tiny addition to China.



You're thinking only of the US side of the equation. China's military will be a lot bigger and more capable in the future, so that's a reason to keep the status quo regarding Taiwan: ie China's claim has not been extinguished by Taiwan OR the US.

For that matter, Trumpism returning with its element of isolationism would be a better opportunity than the US's current small engagement in Ukraine. The US could easily afford heavier weapons for Zelinsky but Biden chooses not to send them (for reasons, mind you). It's just bizarre to claim that a military built on the presumption of two major wars at once, is overstretched now. What the hell have they been doing with all that money?

The United States could not fight two major wars at once right now. By two “major wars” they consider Iraq to be a “major war”

Ukraine has a larger active duty Army then the United States at this moment, and are losing to Russia.

The US wastes a great deal of money on useless weapons programs and kickbacks to government contractors. Then there’s the fact the US military is padded with unnecessary non combat positions that solely exist to give women military positions.

There is a lot of evidence that the US military is ineffective and will be in a future conflict. Several years ago there was a spate of Naval accidents where naval ships rammed civilian ships, an aircraft carrier was lost in port to a fire and there were no firefighting procedures for an in port fire and no naval officers wanted to take responsibility for fighting the fire. The US army is unable to recruit, theyve kicked tens of thousands out for not getting the “vaccine” and now there’s a recruiting shortage, the army filled like half its recruiting goals. And large stores of our spare equipment has been wasted in the Ukraine.

The US military is going to require extensive reorganization to win a major state on state conflict and there’s no political will to do so.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I don’t think that’s in any way for certain. China really doesn’t need to invade and occupy, not immediately, cutting off the sea and air, which is well within their capability will lead to a starving Taiwan.

I respect your opinion. It is notoriously hard to interpret anything coming from the CCP of China. They have their own ideas of what will play best to the Chinese public, and even in that they are cryptic. Sometimes they blow hard and do nothing, but other times their trade or diplomatic moves are benign or even self-sacrificing. Having control of their own "media narrative" gives them options we don't have.

Their political strategy aside, China is still dependent on the trade and economic growth which keeps the CCP popular in China, and most of their trade depends on sea routes. A naval blockade would shut down their economy, and for this reason alone I doubt they will try to seize the prize of the "rebel province." They can't even seize it, let alone hold it, and as things stand now the CCP would lose the loyalty even of their military if they tried and failed. Popular discontent (from the people, for lost prosperity and also lost lives) added to military discontent (for starting a war China cannot win) would be disastrous for the CCP.

I'm not saying the CCP would definitely be overthrown. But I am saying it's a risk they will not take, for many years to come. Even attacking Taiwan with no intention to invade, would be terrible strategy. Taiwan would increase their already considerable defences, with or without outright grants from the US.

The CCP has done some dumb shit, if you consider them just "the government of China." They have willfully harmed China many times in the past, and imo continue to do so by suppressing dissent, imprisoning without fair trial, and keeping too tight a rein on some industries. However, the CCP has played an incredibly smart game when it comes to entrenching and furthering their own party power. They are experts, so don't expect them to throw a big slow one for the US to hit out of the ballpark. If they ever do invade Taiwan, it will be in their own time and it will be overwhelming.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

The United States could not fight two major wars at once right now. By two “major wars” they consider Iraq to be a “major war”

Iraq qualifies as a "major war" imo. It was a correct decision to rotate reserves and state militias, it took some burden off regular forces, BUT. It was not militarily necessary.

Ukraine has a larger active duty Army then the United States at this moment, and are losing to Russia.

Smaller air force and barely any Navy I expect. How is Ukraine's army at all comparable to Americas, when the US has the two great oceans between them and all other major threats?

The US should have a small Army, if we're going to take the rationale of defence at all seriously.

Of course, we don't. The US military is built for power projection not for defense. If it was only for defense, the entire military would be a lot smaller.

The US wastes a great deal of money on useless weapons programs and kickbacks to government contractors. Then there’s the fact the US military is padded with unnecessary non combat positions that solely exist to give women military positions.

I sort of agree. Most US military spending is wages and pensions. But the way out of that "jobs for the boys" government employment program is actually MORE weapons programs. Make better weapons that even a high school graduate can operate, reduce risks to service people even more, and then you could dispense with the pensions. Military service would just be a job, with no need for early retirement or pensions.

There is a lot of evidence that the US military is ineffective and will be in a future conflict. Several years ago there was a spate of Naval accidents where naval ships rammed civilian ships, an aircraft carrier was lost in port to a fire and there were no firefighting procedures for an in port fire and no naval officers wanted to take responsibility for fighting the fire. The US army is unable to recruit, theyve kicked tens of thousands out for not getting the “vaccine” and now there’s a recruiting shortage, the army filled like half its recruiting goals. And large stores of our spare equipment has been wasted in the Ukraine.

Equipment is never "wasted" if it's used in combat. Equipment is wasted when it becomes obsolete without ever being used.

The US military is going to require extensive reorganization to win a major state on state conflict and there’s no political will to do so.

If "major state on state conflict" means Russia not Iraq, then there's no question of "winning". Making it impractical for the opponent to start a war is the name of the game. And it has been from 1955 when the USSR tested a practical hydrogen bomb.

I kind of miss the Cold War. There was a virtuous simplicity in it. Not even minor powers would risk initiating a nuclear conflict, because they'd be on the losing side (when all sides were losers). Now that there are many sides, it's a lot less clear that any nuclear power will intervene with nukes.

I don't see the Chinese CCP as risk takers like Putin. And, as others have mentioned, a part-invasion of Taiwan is no victory at all. Putin can salvage some pride with a treaty granting Russia the Donbas, but there is not such consolation prize with Taiwan. It's all or nothing, because it's an island.

Putin and Xi are both ****ing crazy. Politicians should do their best for the country, but never forget that their personal time will come and they will likely be disgraced when it does. Neither of them has that kind of humility, but Putin is more dangerous to the international community because he doesn't even care about his party. Xi sees himself as the custodian of a party tradition which (horrible though it is) is honorable to party members.

One final word on the military aspect: the US learned from the Pacific War that technology and industry is the base necessary to win a mechanized war (mechanized in that case being naval). The US needs to rediscover that, or it will find out what 10-to-1 losses feels like when you're on the losing side.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Yep. Xi can go **** himself.

That's great until they do something in retaliation. I do agree she opened the door to embarrass the US if she now doesn't go. I just wonder why she is going at all?

 

[Integrityrespec]

I respect your opinion. It is notoriously hard to interpret anything coming from the CCP of China. They have their own ideas of what will play best to the Chinese public, and even in that they are cryptic. Sometimes they blow hard and do nothing, but other times their trade or diplomatic moves are benign or even self-sacrificing. Having control of their own "media narrative" gives them options we don't have.

Their political strategy aside, China is still dependent on the trade and economic growth which keeps the CCP popular in China, and most of their trade depends on sea routes. A naval blockade would shut down their economy, and for this reason alone I doubt they will try to seize the prize of the "rebel province." They can't even seize it, let alone hold it, and as things stand now the CCP would lose the loyalty even of their military if they tried and failed. Popular discontent (from the people, for lost prosperity and also lost lives) added to military discontent (for starting a war China cannot win) would be disastrous for the CCP.

I'm not saying the CCP would definitely be overthrown. But I am saying it's a risk they will not take, for many years to come. Even attacking Taiwan with no intention to invade, would be terrible strategy. Taiwan would increase their already considerable defences, with or without outright grants from the US.

The CCP has done some dumb shit, if you consider them just "the government of China." They have willfully harmed China many times in the past, and imo continue to do so by suppressing dissent, imprisoning without fair trial, and keeping too tight a rein on some industries. However, the CCP has played an incredibly smart game when it comes to entrenching and furthering their own party power. They are experts, so don't expect them to throw a big slow one for the US to hit out of the ballpark. If they ever do invade Taiwan, it will be in their own time and it will be overwhelming.

A naval blockade would be an act of war and they would respond. China is a communist party and it's not changing any time in the near future. You might see a change at the top but that's about it.

 

[911Sparky]

No worthwhile opinion either obviously.

Says the guy who thinks airliners getting hit by Chinese missiles have a 90% passenger survival rate.

 

[Dayton3]

Says the guy who thinks airliners getting hit by Chinese missiles have a 90% passenger survival rate.

I didn't say that specifically.

 

[BlueTex]

Nothing would be sweeter than China downing Speaker Pelosi's plane over Taiwan. We could see Joe Biden spring into action and avenge her death with the full support of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and his Bros at the Pentagon.

Well I can dream, can't I?

And this is the state of the GQP...

 

[Jredbaron96]

I didn't say that specifically.

The time to stop digging was several shovels ago.

 

[Dayton3]

The time to stop digging was several shovels ago.

Moderators should be seen and otherwise shut the hell up. You wanted to express your opinion don't accept being a "moderator".

 

[BlueTex]

The United States could not fight two major wars at once right now. By two “major wars” they consider Iraq to be a “major war”

Ukraine has a larger active duty Army then the United States at this moment, and are losing to Russia.

The US wastes a great deal of money on useless weapons programs and kickbacks to government contractors. Then there’s the fact the US military is padded with unnecessary non combat positions that solely exist to give women military positions.

There is a lot of evidence that the US military is ineffective and will be in a future conflict. Several years ago there was a spate of Naval accidents where naval ships rammed civilian ships, an aircraft carrier was lost in port to a fire and there were no firefighting procedures for an in port fire and no naval officers wanted to take responsibility for fighting the fire. The US army is unable to recruit, theyve kicked tens of thousands out for not getting the “vaccine” and now there’s a recruiting shortage, the army filled like half its recruiting goals. And large stores of our spare equipment has been wasted in the Ukraine.

The US military is going to require extensive reorganization to win a major state on state conflict and there’s no political will to do so.

LMAO... Is this based on your "expert opinion"? What a load of bullshit...

 

[grip]

China may not shoot Pelosi's plane down but they'll probably try to retaliate against the US in other ways.

 

[CaughtInThe]

People were calling for the death of Russian President Vladimir Putin over the liberation of the Donbas Rus, and we have Russian members of the forum.

Whoa. It's like you don't differentiate between US and Russian politicians (while that Russian politician is slaughtering humans for land).

Are you Russian?