Syria 'shoots down Turkish fighter jet' [W:214]

[24107]

Syrian air defences “shot down” the Turkish jet fighter that went missing while on patrol near the border between the two countries on Friday, according to local television reports.

Syria 'shoots down Turkish fighter jet' - Telegraph


Most likely done with a Russian supplied S-300 system.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Syria 'shoots down Turkish fighter jet' - Telegraph


Most likely done with a Russian supplied S-300 system.

Apparently the Turks would be well advised to stay out of Syrian air space.

 

[Medusa]

hillary ,you must be so happy now.

 

[24107]

hillary ,you must be so happy now.

Actually hillary doesn't care either way, to her just another pawn lost, but there are many more pawn's left to replace it with.:shrug:

 

[DiAnna]

hillary ,you must be so happy now.

:shock: WTF? Syria shoots down a Turkish jet and you blame the USA? That is sheer lunacy. I was going to offer Turkey condolences on the loss, but screw that now.

 

[Medusa]

:shock: WTF? Syria shoots down a Turkish jet and you blame the USA? That is sheer lunacy.

diana how did you understand my post

hillary will be happy because she wants a war between turkey and syria,thats all

 

[Connery]

Turkey could invoke "Chapter IV of the Nato treaty, which allows a member to convene an emergency summit of the whole alliance if "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened". Turkey came close to doing so earlier this year after Syrian troops opened fire and and wounded several Turkish nationals . iirc the US persuaded Turkey to involve NATO at that time.

 

[washunut]

diana how did you understand my post

hillary will be happy because she wants a war between turkey and syria,thats all

America will be drawn in. Turkey is part of NATO, if this turns into something bigger all of NATO will get involved.

Not sure why Turkey would fly over Syria during such tense times.

 

[Red_Dave]

America will be drawn in. Turkey is part of NATO, if this turns into something bigger all of NATO will get involved.

Not sure why Turkey would fly over Syria during such tense times.

Whether the plane was shot down over Syrian airspace is uncertain, it came down over the Med but that's not necessarily where it was hit.

 

[washunut]

Whether the plane was shot down over Syrian airspace is uncertain, it came down over the Med but that's not necessarily where it was hit.

Doesn't matter. NATO could well be drawn in. Syria might have done something to try and unite the country against what they may call foreign intrusion.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Not to sound alarmist but this is exactly how world wars start.

 

[EagleAye]

I know that Turkey wasn't interested in getting involved in the Syrian conflict, but I wonder if this will draw them in anyhow.

 

[washunut]

I know that Turkey wasn't interested in getting involved in the Syrian conflict, but I wonder if this will draw them in anyhow.

They won't jump in without NATO. I think they would have a very hard time with Syria. Their only experience is against that group of Kurds.

 

[Mya]

As a note aside .... interesting but very revealing is the difference in reaction by Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, to the downing of a Turkish plane and its two pilots, by Syria , a very muted and controlled reaction by Ergodan,and his hysterical attack against Israel for its self-defense against the radical thugs on the flotilla ship trying to run the Gaza blockade some time ago.

 

[cpwill]

America will be drawn in. Turkey is part of NATO, if this turns into something bigger all of NATO will get involved.

Doubtful. NATO is "The United States Plus Some Tokens" in most conflicts, and Europe has enough troubles without wanting to get involved in the Syrian hellhole.

Not sure why Turkey would fly over Syria during such tense times.

IF they were flying over, it was probably collecting on troop and large refugee movements.



As for Hillary, I don't know. Is shooting down Turkish Aircraft "Reformist"?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Turkey could invoke "Chapter IV of the Nato treaty, which allows a member to convene an emergency summit of the whole alliance if "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened". Turkey came close to doing so earlier this year after Syrian troops opened fire and and wounded several Turkish nationals . iirc the US persuaded Turkey to involve NATO at that time.

I don't see those scenarios in this dangerous incident, a jet was downed possibly flying over Syrian airspace. It's certainly over-reaction by Syria (there are Russian bombers which still encroach Western European airspace without anyone shooting an airplane down) but they may have thought on of their own was trying to flee such as the Syrian Mig that went to Jordan recently.

There's also nothing that says a NATO country has to invoke NATO unless they want to. My guess is that whatever Turkey's reaction - it will be driven by public anger reaction and national pride.

 

[Medusa]

Doesn't matter. NATO could well be drawn in. Syria might have done something to try and unite the country against what they may call foreign intrusion.

turkey is not afhganistan or bosnia or another arabian country!!

 

[EagleAye]

IF they were flying over, it was probably collecting on troop and large refugee movements.

We should all note that Turkey still flies the RF-4E (reconnaissance variant) that carries the same camera package as the RF-4C. Here's a bit about the package.

All-weather tactical reconnaissance version for the US Air Force, AN/APQ-99 (later AN/APQ-172) radar. Equipped similar to RF-4B but with a wider choice of camera fits, including a centerline pod for the gigantic HIAC-1 LOROP (Long Range Oblique Photography) camera, capable of taking high-resolution images of objects 100 miles (160 km) away.

List of McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II variants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the Turkish recon flight didn't need to be in Syrian air space to take pics.

 

[washunut]

turkey is not afhganistan or bosnia or another arabian country!!

Not sure what that has to do with NATO getting involved. But if that is the case I doubt that Turkey will do anything. Perhaps this was a warning from Syria to Turkey to stay out or get destroyed.

 

[donsutherland1]

As a note aside .... interesting but very revealing is the difference in reaction by Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, to the downing of a Turkish plane and its two pilots, by Syria , a very muted and controlled reaction by Ergodan,and his hysterical attack against Israel for its self-defense against the radical thugs on the flotilla ship trying to run the Gaza blockade some time ago.

IMO, Turkey had made a strategic decision to recalibrate its foreign policy. The flotilla incident was merely an opportunity to provide a visible display that its strategic orientation had shifted, even as its stance against Israel's right of self defense contradicted its own position with regard to the PKK terrorist movement threatening its people. For a variety of reasons, Turkey likely calculated that it needed to strengthen its relationships with its neighbors given the region's risks (historic; ethnic, sectarian and religious fault lines; ideological movements; evolving regional balance of power, etc.) and believed that a catalyst for doing so with such radical actors as Iran would be a loosening of its ties with Israel, among others. That the U.S. had squeezed Israel in response to Palestinian intransigence probably strengthened Turkey's new strategic calculations about the limits of U.S. reliability, among other regional dynamics. When a state squeezes one of its strategic allies, others take notice. That Turkey has not been able to become a full member of the EU might also have led it to shift the emphasis of its foreign policy focus inward to the Near East. Faraway states have less at stake with Near East developments. Turkey must live with the neighbors it has and I suspect that its foreign policy shift is aimed at allowing it greater flexibility to do so.

 

[washunut]

IMO, Turkey had made a strategic decision to recalibrate its foreign policy. The flotilla incident was merely an opportunity to provide a visible display that its strategic orientation had shifted, even as its stance against Israel's right of self defense contradicted its own position with regard to the PKK terrorist movement threatening its people. For a variety of reasons, Turkey likely calculated that it needed to strengthen its relationships with its neighbors given the region's risks (historic; ethnic, sectarian and religious fault lines; ideological movements; evolving regional balance of power, etc.) and believed that a catalyst for doing so with such radical actors as Iran would be a loosening of its ties with Israel, among others. That the U.S. had squeezed Israel in response to Palestinian intransigence probably strengthened Turkey's new strategic calculations about the limits of U.S. reliability, among other regional dynamics. When a state squeezes one of its strategic allies, others take notice. That Turkey has not been able to become a full member of the EU might also have led it to shift the emphasis of its foreign policy focus inward to the Near East. Faraway states have less at stake with Near East developments. Turkey must live with the neighbors it has and I suspect that its foreign policy shift is aimed at allowing it greater flexibility to do so.

I think this observation is right on. That being said, does it still make sense for NATO to include Turkey. Do we still need radar looking out for Russian rockets anymore?

Not sure why we even to have NATO, this would be one easy cut to our military budget.

 

[EagleAye]

I think this observation is right on. That being said, does it still make sense for NATO to include Turkey. Do we still need radar looking out for Russian rockets anymore?

Not sure why we even to have NATO, this would be one easy cut to our military budget.

Russia isn't dead, it's just dozing. And why "un-friend" a middle-east nation when we already have so few friends in the middle-east? Granted, Turkey isn't a "close" friend but "un-friending" Turkey will likely make that situation worse.

 

[RDS]

Syria is on the brink of civil war. Any fighter aircraft flying close to its border will first be treated as hostile.

 

[washunut]

Russia isn't dead, it's just dozing. And why "un-friend" a middle-east nation when we already have so few friends in the middle-east? Granted, Turkey isn't a "close" friend but "un-friending" Turkey will likely make that situation worse.

You have a point. Just think that keeping this friendship might cost us more than it is worth, long term.

 

[EagleAye]

You have a point. Just think that keeping this friendship might cost us more than it is worth, long term.

Certainly Turkey is drifting away. And their hostility to Israel is not what I like to see. In order to avoid any unpleasant future situations, we should probably be very careful about technology transfers to Turkey. Their F-16s may not get any upgrades for a while.