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Sword of Anger

F41

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Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.

Terror lives all over the world and we cannot succeed in this alone. This war is not just our war, it is yours whether you like it or not, it is your war too. Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace. There are people who blame our government policies for the cause of this hatred towards us, that is their right, but it is not a reason to kill so many of our own people.

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.
 
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MiamiFlorida

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.

Terror lives all over the world and we cannot succeed in this alone. This war is not just our war, it is yours whether you like it or not, it is your war too. Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace. There are people who blame our government policies for the cause of this hatred towards us, that is their right, but it is not a reason to kill so many of our own people.

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.
And to those who don't agree: Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.

Terror lives all over the world and we cannot succeed in this alone. This war is not just our war, it is yours whether you like it or not, it is your war too. Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace. There are people who blame our government policies for the cause of this hatred towards us, that is their right, but it is not a reason to kill so many of our own people.

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.

9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11

1. We are a Republic not a Democracy
2. We cannot Succeed in this period. Terrorism isn't just something that Extremist Muslums do. Remember Oklahoma City? Anyone can be a terrorist, and I wouldn't be surprised if this war creates another terrorist out of one of our ex-military members like the last war we fought in the middle east did.
3. Who is "THEM"?
4. Who's angry? Im not angry... it was over 4 years ago!
5. I think you really need the support of those who do not agree because alot of the military forces are those who do not agree, I was one of them.

and...
6. Im sick and tired of September 11th being the excuse for every single thing that we do in this nation. If you want to complain im being to insensitive, too bad. There is a time to stop using excuses. Saying 9/11 "changed everything" is like saying the Oklahoma City Bombing "changed everything" did it? NO! It was a terrorist attack, just a larger one than we have experienced before but that doesn't mean it "changed the whole world" Alot of other countries in the "world" could give a **** less. Statements like that are what make Americans arrogant pompous assholes.
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.
I fully agree with going after the Taliban and Bin Laden but what the hell are we doing in Iraq?

They did not attack us and all we have done is brought misery to the people of Iraq. Is that what you call peace loving?
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.

Terror lives all over the world and we cannot succeed in this alone. This war is not just our war, it is yours whether you like it or not, it is your war too. Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace. There are people who blame our government policies for the cause of this hatred towards us, that is their right, but it is not a reason to kill so many of our own people.

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.

This sounds like something straight out of the Bush propaganda book
 

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Caine said:
This sounds like something straight out of the Bush propaganda book
No, sorry to disapoint you, but this came from me, and it is how I feel. If you wish to cower down and pretend it is all water under the bridge, that is your choice, however, for the many in this nation and world, we will not let it be forgotten.

BTW, Tell me, do you realy think 9/11 did not change the world? Because if you do, you are foolishly mistaken
Caine said:
There is a time to stop using excuses. Saying 9/11 changed everything is like saying the Oklahoma City Bombing changed everything did it? NO!
 
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Caine

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ThePhoenix said:
No, sorry to disapoint you, but this came from me, and it is how I feel. If you wish to cower down and pretend it is all water under the bridge, that is your choice, however, for the many in this nation and world, we will not let it be forgotten.

BTW, Tell me, do you realy think 9/11 did not change the world? Because if you do, you are foolishly mistaken
Yes, I don't think 9/11 CHANGED THE WORLD.

The world does not consist of America and the opinions of Americans or even our allies and enemies.

Tell me what it changed for people in Switzerland.
Tell me what it changed for people in Ecuador.
Tell me what it changed for people in Vietnam.
Tell me what it changed for the people of Lichtenstein.
Tell me what it changed for Zaire.
Tell me what it changed for Zimbabwe... Madagascar?.....Micronesia?
 
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F41

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Caine said:
Yes, I don't think 9/11 CHANGED THE WORLD.

The world does not consist of America and the opinions of Americans or even our allies and enemies.

Tell me what it changed for people in Switzerland.
Tell me what it changed for people in Ecuador.
Tell me what it changed for people in Vietnam.
Tell me what it changed for the people of Lichtenstein.
I see you are young and have a lot to learn about this world. You are also naive about the freedom of others as well. I am sorry if this also comes across as harsh, but you should understand that the freedom we fight for is not just our own, it is for the freedom of all mankind as Benjamin Franklin said. (note my Sig)
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.
The United States is a republic, there is a difference. No one is going to forgive the terrorists that attacked America on September 11, 2001, and I would not say we were "provoked to a point", the President took immediate military action after the attack.

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.
What point are you trying to get across? That our military armed forces in Afghanistan are fighting "out of anger"? I fail to see the relevant point this portion is displaying, the American people know their country is involved in a War, it does not take a propaganda speech to point that out.

Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace.
Who is "them"? This sounds just like "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists".

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.
Are you are member of the armed forces? I do not think you are the one doing the fighting. I agree America must hunt down and kill the terrorists, but this country would not work if there were not people to question the reasons for laws, policies, and wars.
 

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ThePhoenix said:
I see you are young and have a lot to learn about this world. You are also naive about the freedom of others as well. I am sorry if this also comes across as harsh, but you should understand that the freedom we fight for is not just our own, it is for the freedom of all mankind as Benjamin Franklin said. (note my Sig)
Note your signature has nothing to do with this, but has alot to do with the state that the world was in back in the 1700s.
Our fight for liberty and freedom in the revolutionary war also provided others with the inspiration to do the same.
Here we are not fighting for our freedom from government oppression, we already have that (although sometimes I wonder).
And, in fact, we are doing the freedom fighting FOR the Iraqis and Afghanis instead of providing them with the inspiration to fight for themselves.
We are basically encouraging the rest of the world to be lazy, because one day the United States will come and liberate everyone.
 

Caine

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ThePhoenix said:
I see you are young and have a lot to learn about this world. You are also naive about the freedom of others as well. I am sorry if this also comes across as harsh, but you should understand that the freedom we fight for is not just our own, it is for the freedom of all mankind as Benjamin Franklin said. (note my Sig)
ALSO!..
you still havn't bothered to explain how the countries I mentioned have been changed.
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.
Other than in the Tonkin Gulf ruse, when US navy pretended to be attacked by the Vietnamese, as an excuse to start the Vietnam war. Just like Hitler pretended to be attacked by the Poles so he could invade them.
Not to mention US invading Iraq when the 911 attack didn't originate from there.
I think you may need to revise your view of US foreign policy in regard to the degree of provocation required to make the US go to war.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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ThePhoenix said:
Our nation (The United States) is a peace loving Democracy, We do not like to go to war and we are slow to provocation.
But when we are provoked to the point where we must pick up our sword, it is not easy for us to forgive the enemy for having to put us in this situation.
The fact of this provocation has then become the issue in itself.
Why is it that we it is not easy for us to forgive an enemy?

Our people fight in anger, and we will fight for the very reason that we were forced to go to war. When our nation was attacked on 911 in our own front yard, how can we ever allow this to happen again? So we will take this war they have created back to them. And we have done so in Afghanistan. This is a war on terror. We did not ask for it. It came to us.
Terror lives all over the world and we cannot succeed in this alone. This war is not just our war, it is yours whether you like it or not, it is your war too. Do not let them win you over, stand up and fight for the right to live in peace. There are people who blame our government policies for the cause of this hatred towards us, that is their right, but it is not a reason to kill so many of our own people.
Why is that not a reason? We felt attacked on 9/11 and we went to the other side of the world and killed people. What if people of the Middle East feel that they are attacked, is it suddenly wrong for them to revenge? Why is that?

As I stated before, we fight because we have been provoked, and we are angry. We have, and we will, fight this. With or without the support of those who do not agree.
You seek end such extreme hatred by using anger? A "Sword of Anger" is the weapon you suggest? Isn't that the weapon of our enemies? Why can our weapon not be truth, justice, peace? Why must our weapon be vengeance?
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Why is it that we it is not easy for us to forgive an enemy?
Would it be that easy for you to forgive someone who killed your family or your friends?
Gandhi>Bush said:
Why is that not a reason? We felt attacked on 9/11 and we went to the other side of the world and killed people. What if people of the Middle East feel that they are attacked, is it suddenly wrong for them to revenge? Why is that?
I do see your point here on vengence, but in my point of view and I do stress My, it is not of vengence as there are those who look at it that way, I do not. As I look at it, it is A Rightious Anger.
Gandhi>Bush said:
You seek end such extreme hatred by using anger? A Sword of Anger is the weapon you suggest? Isn't that the weapon of our enemies? Why can our weapon not be truth, justice, peace? Why must our weapon be vengeance?
No, it is not the weapon of our enemy. The weapon of our enemy I would term as a "Sword of Hate".
 

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ThePhoenix said:
Would it be that easy for you to forgive someone who killed your family or your friends?
No, but it would not be difficult to forgo a violent reprisal.

I do see your point here on vengence, but in my point of view and I do stress My, it is not of vengence as there are those who look at it that way, I do not. As I look at it, it is A Rightious Anger.
What makes your anger righteous and theirs unrighteous?

No, it is not the weapon of our enemy. The weapon of our enemy I would term as a "Sword of Hate".
How would you distinguish the difference betwenn anger and hate?
 

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1. We are a Republic not a Democracy
Correct. Very good.

2. We cannot Succeed in this period.
This sort of attitude is why people like you should never be in charge of National Security. Imagine if FDR and Churchill had your attitude.
"Its hard to do" is never a legitimate reason to not do it.

4. Who's angry? Im not angry... it was over 4 years ago!
And this is part of the problem inherent to the 'instrant gratfication' generation. You forget far too soon.

5. I think you really need the support of those who do not agree because alot of the military forces are those who do not agree, I was one of them.
You, and they, can leave the military when you contract is up. While under contract, your opinion on the matter doesnt matter -- because you agreed to have your opinion subjugated to those above you in your chain of command.

6. Im sick and tired of September 11th being the excuse for every single thing that we do in this nation.
Last I looked, it isnt.
It did, however, change the context in which we see everything, as it should have.

Alot of other countries in the "world" could give a **** less. Statements like that are what make Americans arrogant pompous assholes
Then these countries, and these people, are part of the problem, not the solution. If you or anyone else has a problem with the United States acting in her own defenese and that of her allies, then clearly you should be treated as an enemy, not a friend.

Remember that your freedom of speech only goes so far, and voicing your opinion can result in your execution.
 

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M14 Shooter said:
Remember that your freedom of speech only goes so far, and voicing your opinion can result in your execution.
What? Since when?
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
What? Since when?
Since the beginning of the country. You dont have the right to say just anything, and some of the things you might say can get you executed.

Treasonous, seditious speech comes to mind.
 

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M14 Shooter said:
Since the beginning of the country. You dont have the right to say just anything, and some of the things you might say can get you executed.

Treasonous, seditious speech comes to mind.
When has this EVER happened?
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
When has this EVER happened?
Doesnt matter:
1- You can commit treason by voicing your opinion.
2- Treason can be punushed by death.

Like I said:
Freedom of speech only goes so far.
 

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M14 Shooter said:
1. We are a Republic not a Democracy
Correct. Very good.

2. We cannot Succeed in this period.
This sort of attitude is why people like you should never be in charge of National Security. Imagine if FDR and Churchill had your attitude.
"Its hard to do" is never a legitimate reason to not do it.

4. Who's angry? Im not angry... it was over 4 years ago!
And this is part of the problem inherent to the 'instrant gratfication' generation. You forget far too soon.

5. I think you really need the support of those who do not agree because alot of the military forces are those who do not agree, I was one of them.
You, and they, can leave the military when you contract is up. While under contract, your opinion on the matter doesnt matter -- because you agreed to have your opinion subjugated to those above you in your chain of command.

6. Im sick and tired of September 11th being the excuse for every single thing that we do in this nation.
Last I looked, it isnt.
It did, however, change the context in which we see everything, as it should have.

Alot of other countries in the "world" could give a **** less. Statements like that are what make Americans arrogant pompous assholes
Then these countries, and these people, are part of the problem, not the solution. If you or anyone else has a problem with the United States acting in her own defenese and that of her allies, then clearly you should be treated as an enemy, not a friend.

Remember that your freedom of speech only goes so far, and voicing your opinion can result in your execution.
2. We cannot succeed in the "war on terrorism" because terrorism isnt just an Arab thing, anyone can be a terrorist. Oklahoma City Bombing... Unabomber....Atlanta Olympics Bomber.....People who Bomb Abortion Clinics...... I could be a terrorist if I wanted to go out and bomb something today, which I don't. Terrorism will never die.

4. It was over 4 years ago, I think its time to stop using 9/11 as our excuse for everything wrong.

5. I never took an oath that said I give up my right to have an opinion on the issues bothering our nation. I never gave an oath that said im not allowed to speak my opinion. And I never said that I swear to have my opinions subjugated by my superiors. I took an oath saying that I would obey the ORDERS of my superior officers. Big difference there bub.

6. See number 4.

Treason. A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy. The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance; or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power. Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort. Cramer v. U. S., U.S.N.Y., 325 U.S. l, 65 S.Ct. 918, 9327 89 L.Ed. 1441. See 18 U.S.C.A. § 2381. A person can be convicted of treason only on the testimony of two witnesses, or confession in open court. Art. III, Sec. 3, U.S. Constitution.

Tell me how any of that applies to my opinions that are protected by the 1st Amendment?
 

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Caine said:
2. We cannot succeed in the "war on terrorism" because terrorism isnt just an Arab thing, anyone can be a terrorist.
You're just restating your premise.
This doesnt make your premise valid.

4. It was over 4 years ago, I think its time to stop using 9/11 as our excuse for everything wrong.
You're just restating your premise.
This doesnt make your premise valid.

5. I never took an oath that said I give up my right to have an opinion on the issues bothering our nation.
You did, however, give up your right to voice said opinion.

I never gave an oath that said im not allowed to speak my opinion.
Yes. You did.
Dont think so?
What happens when you tell your commanding general that he's a **********?

And I never said that I swear to have my opinions subjugated by my superiors.
In terms of what you think you should and should not do?
You sure did. You may think you should not be doing X. Your superiors think you should. So long as whatever in question is lawful, your opinion doesnt matter- you'll do X.

I took an oath saying that I would obey the ORDERS of my superior officers.
Yes. See above.

6. See number 4.
You're just restating your premise.
This doesnt make your premise valid.

Treason. A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy....
Tell me how any of that applies to my opinions that are protected by the 1st Amendment?
I never said it did.
 

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Treason is adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort. Expressing your opinion is not treason, it is your right as an American.

Remember that your freedom of speech only goes so far, and voicing your opinion can result in your execution.
Absolutely no reason for the government to execute a person for using their equitable rights as an American to protest or voice their opinion, especially in a period of war.
 

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Absolutely no reason for the government to execute a person for using their equitable rights as an American to protest or voice their opinion, especially in a period of war.
If what is said is treasonous, the government can punish you as it sees fit.

You have no tight to commit treason, and the 1st doesnt protect you when doing so.
 

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M14 Shooter said:
If what is said is treasonous, the government can punish you as it sees fit.

You have no tight to commit treason, and the 1st doesnt protect you when doing so.
Opinions cannot be Treasonous.

However, telling the enemy details of military operations for the purpose of helping them IS treason. Sending them toilet paper could even be treasonous.

Stating that the government isnt to your liking is not treasonous.
Stating that your tired of hearing the same lame excuse of 9/11 is not.
Stating that you believe alot of your fellow Americans are pompous assholes is not.
 
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