Sword of Anger

[M14 Shooter]

Opinions cannot be Treasonous.

Actions and statements based on them can be.
And the 1st amendment does not protect treasonous speech.

However, telling the enemy details of military operations for the purpose of helping them IS treason. Sending them toilet paper could even be treasonous.

Thats correct. Obviously, thats not the limit of what might qualify as treason.

Stating that the government isnt to your liking is not treasonous.
Stating that your tired of hearing the same lame excuse of 9/11 is not.
Stating that you believe alot of your fellow Americans are pompous assholes is not

If thats all the farther it goes, you are right.

 

[Caine]

Actions and statements based on them can be.
And the 1st amendment does not protect treasonous speech.


Thats correct. Obviously, thats not the limit of what might qualify as treason.


If thats all the farther it goes, you are right.

I think there is an ignorant common misconception of those who believe that if you don't like everything our government is doing than you support the terrorists or the extremists or whatever they are.

As someone who served 16 months in Iraq, I can honestly tell you thats not the case.

In fact, I have more dislike for the people of Iraq than I have for anyone in this country. They are ignorant, un-apretiative, and don't deserve anything that we are doing for them.
It may sound cruel for me to say, but, I believe they were better off under Saddam.
Is this treasonous? No, because im not saying I support helping restore Saddam to power, especially since it has cost the lifes of over 2000 american soldiers. 2 of them which I knew, respected, and worked with on a daily basis.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Doesnt matter:
1- You can commit treason by voicing your opinion.
2- Treason can be punushed by death.

Like I said:
Freedom of speech only goes so far.

I'm not sure that you can commit treason by voicing your opinion. Such bogus charges would never hold up in court.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm not sure that you can commit treason by voicing your opinion. Such bogus charges would never hold up in court.

You certainly could.
All that must be done is show that your opinion provides aid and comfort to the enemy.
Tokyo Rose was tried and convicted for treason - all she did was 'voice an opionon'.

Sedition is punsihable by death as well - and all you have to do is talk about something to be guilty of that.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I think there is an ignorant common misconception of those who believe that if you don't like everything our government is doing than you support the terrorists or the extremists or whatever they are.

I think there is also a ignorant common misconception among those that do voice their opinion against the govenrment that they are someone immune to backlash from citizens that disagree with them. If you say you dont like the government and/or its policies, then you are completely open to criticizm from those who do - even if this criticism include being called a traitor.

In fact, I have more dislike for the people of Iraq than I have for anyone in this country. They are ignorant, un-apretiative, and don't deserve anything that we are doing for them.

Thats it! Talk them up!
Of all the people in Iraq, how many did you come in direct, personal contact with, for a sufficient amount of time to ascertain much more than theot gender and oral hygine?

It may sound cruel for me to say, but, I believe they were better off under Saddam.

Yes. A country full of state-sponsored gang rapes and torture of children to get their parents to talk -- thats a GREAT place to be.

 

[Caine]

I think there is also a ignorant common misconception among those that do voice their opinion against the govenrment that they are someone immune to backlash from citizens that disagree with them. If you say you dont like the government and/or its policies, then you are completely open to criticizm from those who do - even if this criticism include being called a traitor.


Thats it! Talk them up!
Of all the people in Iraq, how many did you come in direct, personal contact with, for a sufficient amount of time to ascertain much more than theot gender and oral hygine?


Yes. A country full of state-sponsored gang rapes and torture of children to get their parents to talk -- thats a GREAT place to be.

1. I served my country honorably in 2 tours of 16 total months, until you tell me what you've done for the country besides argue for everything they do blindly, then shut the **** up.

2. I can't even begin to count how many people I came into contact with. I was on the ground moving up the country during the initial invasion. I had to deal with many Iraqis from the annoying children and young adult punks who don't appretiate **** we do for them, to the detainees that I had to watch overnight until they were moved to the brigade S2 to be questions and possibly moved to an even higher MI section.

3. Actually, your right, getting rid of him was a good thing, sticking around for as long as we did to install a sham of a government, not so good. Don't argue with me on this, my unit was sent over there to help provide "security" for the elections, which were a total joke.

 

[M14 Shooter]

1. I served my country honorably in 2 tours of 16 total months, until you tell me what you've done for the country besides argue for everything they do blindly, then shut the **** up.

Wait.
I thought people had the right to voice an opinion, even if its one someone else doesnt like.
I guess that only applies when -you- want it to apply.

And while your service to the country is greatly appreciated, it doesnt give you soapbox that stands any higher than anyone elses. Dont dare presume that you having been there for 16 seconds much less 16 monthts gives you and standing whatsoever to demand that I "shut the fu-k up".

For the record - I'll argue with you about anything I damn well please.

2. I can't even begin to count how many people I came into contact with. I was on the ground moving up the country during the initial invasion. I had to deal with many Iraqis from the annoying children and young adult punks who don't appretiate **** we do for them, to the detainees that I had to watch overnight until they were moved to the brigade S2 to be questions and possibly moved to an even higher MI section.

So, to answer my question:
Not many.
Interesting how you are so intimate with their thoughts and opinions.

3. Actually, your right, getting rid of him was a good thing, sticking around for as long as we did to install a sham of a government, not so good

What, exactly, did you think we would do after we toppled the Ba'athist government?
And how, specifically, is the current process of crearting a new government in Iraq a "sham"?

Don't argue with me on this, my unit was sent over there to help provide "security" for the elections, which were a total joke

The elections were a joke?
Specifically, how so? Seems to me they have been heralded by everyone - even the most rabid Bush-haters - as a stunning success.

 

[Caine]

Wait.
I thought people had the right to voice an opinion, even if its one someone else doesnt like.
I guess that only applies when -you- want it to apply.

And while your service to the country is greatly appreciated, it doesnt give you soapbox that stands any higher than anyone elses. Dont dare presume that you having been there for 16 seconds much less 16 monthts gives you and standing whatsoever to demand that I "shut the fu-k up".

For the record - I'll argue with you about anything I damn well please.


So, to answer my question:
Not many.
Interesting how you are so intimate with their thoughts and opinions.


What, exactly, did you think we would do after we toppled the Ba'athist government?
And how, specifically, is the current process of crearting a new government in Iraq a "sham"?


The elections were a joke?
Specifically, how so? Seems to me they have been heralded by everyone - even the most rabid Bush-haters - as a stunning success.

This conversation with you is a blatent waste of my time.

BTW, Didn't I tell you to shutup?

So by telling me that I know nothing of the Iraqi, people...
What do YOU know... you seem to be on the attack so much that your not even providing any information that backs up your claims that I know nothing.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This conversation with you is a blatent waste of my time.

Ah - you're trying to disengage fro the discussion because you dont like where its headed. Classic.

BTW, Didn't I tell you to shutup?

Yes. And I told you what you could do with your 'shut up'.
Shall I be more clear, but less cordial?

So by telling me that I know nothing of the Iraqi, people...

I asked you what sort of personal intimate contact you had so that you might be legiitmatly familiar with their thoughts, ideas, feelings...
You did not indicate that you had any such contact.
So, why should I think your claims of what they think, etc, hold any weight?

What do YOU know... you seem to be on the attack so much that your not even providing any information that backs up your claims that I know nothing

Your response to my question indicates that you arent in a position to know anything like what you claim to know.

So, where was I? Oh yes - the questions about your statements that you didnt answer:

-What, exactly, did you think we would do after we toppled the Ba'athist government?
-How, specifically, is the current process of crearting a new government in Iraq a "sham"?
-Specifically, how were the elections a 'joke'?

 

[Caine]

Ah - you're trying to disengage fro the discussion because you dont like where its headed. Classic.


Yes. And I told you what you could do with your 'shut up'.
Shall I be more clear, but less cordial?


I asked you what sort of personal intimate contact you had so that you might be legiitmatly familiar with their thoughts, ideas, feelings...
You did not indicate that you had any such contact.
So, why should I think your claims of what they think, etc, hold any weight?


Your response to my question indicates that you arent in a position to know anything like what you claim to know.

So, where was I? Oh yes - the questions about your statements that you didnt answer:

-What, exactly, did you think we would do after we toppled the Ba'athist government?
-How, specifically, is the current process of crearting a new government in Iraq a "sham"?
-Specifically, how were the elections a 'joke'?

I explained how my contact validates my opinions on what the Iraqi people think of us, You never explained how you can tell me I am wrong.

Intimacy? Umm....

The only Iraqi's I spoke to on a regular daily basis and could hold a mature conversation with (unlike the unruly teens who demanded candy and MREs, and then threw rocks when we didn't give them what they wanted) were the Interpreters that we employed. These interpreters were locals of Baghdad with higher education. These people are very few and far between and by the time I returned for my second tour there (4 months for the elections), only one of the 5 interpreters that we employed the first tour was still alive, the others were killed by thier fellow Iraqis.
These Interpreters that we had were very nice people though, and I used to hang out with them when I wasn't doing anything but sitting around. But does this make then an accurate representation of the rest of the country? No, these were the ones brave enough to stand up and help us. The others were too busy trying to get handouts from us and then going behind our backs to help blow us up.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I explained how my contact validates my opinions on what the Iraqi people think of us, You never explained how you can tell me I am wrong.

No. You didnt.
You described your contacts as:
on the ground moving up the country during the initial invasion. I had to deal with many Iraqis from the annoying children and young adult punks who don't appretiate **** we do for them, to the detainees that I had to watch overnight until they were moved to the brigade S2 to be questions and possibly moved to an even higher MI section.
Thats not the sort of contact that gives you intimate knowledge of whats in their hearts and minds, as you claimed.

The only Iraqi's I spoke to on a regular daily basis and could hold a mature conversation with (unlike the unruly teens who demanded candy and MREs, and then threw rocks when we didn't give them what they wanted) were the Interpreters that we employed.

Thanks for making my point.

So, where was I? Oh yes - the questions about your statements that you didnt answer:
-What, exactly, did you think we would do after we toppled the Ba'athist government?
-How, specifically, is the current process of crearting a new government in Iraq a "sham"?
-Specifically, how were the elections a 'joke'?

 

[Canuck]

binladen the cia pawn is now the terrorist?

AMERICA is slow to prevoke into war ?

AMERICA !

beware who is the real terrorist
in your haste to extract your revenge focus your rage on your true enemy
and leave no stone unturned
AMerica the frightened has become a easy target it/s people delude themselves with hate of a people that have no connection to 9/11
and justify it with over tones of instilling a corrupt democracy that iraq does not want
if they wanted it you would not have had to kill 100,000 + civilians
too many lies and too many things that dont add up with the rehtoric
too many complacent and devious dealings
the admin says one thing and does the opposite
it smells fishy and they tell you it smells like roses
something is very wrong when the UN says no and america lies and forges its way into a preemptive strike on a third world nation
O I L AMerica needs oil and it means to secure it over the bodies of poor folks that only want peace
the american people want peace but does your BUSH cheney and haliburton want to have peace?
who gains the most by remaining in IRaq and instaling a pro american GOVT.

 

[mikeey]

Phoenix most of u people are warmongers,hammering the weak people
of this planet,the majority of the people in this world of ours, dont give dam
about u guys and they,United states still cant see it,Phoenix take a step back
and have a count of how many countrys like u,apart from them ****s
the ANGLO SAXONS who come up from the SEWERS as u are 2 of a kind

SHITE.

 

[Harshaw]

binladen the cia pawn is now the terrorist?

AMERICA is slow to prevoke into war ?

AMERICA !

beware who is the real terrorist
in your haste to extract your revenge focus your rage on your true enemy
and leave no stone unturned
AMerica the frightened has become a easy target it/s people delude themselves with hate of a people that have no connection to 9/11
and justify it with over tones of instilling a corrupt democracy that iraq does not want
if they wanted it you would not have had to kill 100,000 + civilians
too many lies and too many things that dont add up with the rehtoric
too many complacent and devious dealings
the admin says one thing and does the opposite
it smells fishy and they tell you it smells like roses
something is very wrong when the UN says no and america lies and forges its way into a preemptive strike on a third world nation
O I L AMerica needs oil and it means to secure it over the bodies of poor folks that only want peace
the american people want peace but does your BUSH cheney and haliburton want to have peace?
who gains the most by remaining in IRaq and instaling a pro american GOVT.

OK, I've been reading your posts over the last day or two . . .

Are you just typing verbatim what you're hearing at a Berkeley open mic poetry night?

 

[Tacobell]

binladen the cia pawn is now the terrorist?

AMERICA is slow to prevoke into war ?

AMERICA !

beware who is the real terrorist
in your haste to extract your revenge focus your rage on your true enemy
and leave no stone unturned
AMerica the frightened has become a easy target it/s people delude themselves with hate of a people that have no connection to 9/11
and justify it with over tones of instilling a corrupt democracy that iraq does not want
if they wanted it you would not have had to kill 100,000 + civilians
too many lies and too many things that dont add up with the rehtoric
too many complacent and devious dealings
the admin says one thing and does the opposite
it smells fishy and they tell you it smells like roses
something is very wrong when the UN says no and america lies and forges its way into a preemptive strike on a third world nation
O I L AMerica needs oil and it means to secure it over the bodies of poor folks that only want peace
the american people want peace but does your BUSH cheney and haliburton want to have peace?
who gains the most by remaining in IRaq and instaling a pro american GOVT.

Sir, apparently the concept of references and sources is a not a familiar one. Throughout the entire post, absolutely no details are listed to support a variety of different claims, and the entire argument is constructed in a form of a thoughtless poem without an absolute perspective or objective.

 

[Canuck]

Sir, apparently the concept of references and sources is a not a familiar one. Throughout the entire post, absolutely no details are listed to support a variety of different claims, and the entire argument is constructed in a form of a thoughtless poem without an absolute perspective or objective.

is that your answer?


who gains most by staying in IRAQ ?

not the people of Iraq they want you out as fast as yesterday
not the american marines who layed down their lives

HALIBURTON

oil interests bush and cheny have them

The American marine is a lean mean fighting machine when you see them coming move out of the way

they can fight with the best of them
what is the gaurd doing in IRAQ why isnt the UN peace keepers in there
WTF is going on in IRAQ beside oil grubing
the us national gaurd couldnt fight their way out of a wet papper bag
why isnt the un profesional army in there


how many brave Us soldiers have to die so the fat cats and war mongers can drive 5000 lb trucks to the mall
the shame On america's face will be hard to conceal when everyone understands that brave marines and national gaursmen died so America
can continue to drive suv's and 1/2 tons to work

if you cant answer the question i understand the disgrace and anger is to much to bare at this point in time

stand agape in a state of denial I understand your position