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Supreme Court rules Puerto Ricans don't have constitutional right to some federal benefits

TomFitz said:
And?

Puerto Ricans pay the withholding taxes that finance these benefit programs, but are excluded from being about to collect from them.

Solely because they aren’t represented in a Congress that won’t let them in?
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No, they don’t. Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is not Social Security and it is not funded through FICA. He was eligible for Social Security, but not Supplemental Security Income when he was living in Puerto Rico.
 
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TU Curmudgeon said:
Ummm - you do realize that whether or not Puerto Rico becomes a "full state" is NOT something that the Puerto Ricans can decide for themselves - don't you?

You do realize that even if 100% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could deny them statehood - don't you?

You do realize that even if 0.00% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could bestow statehood on them - don't you?

Can you imagine any situation in which any of the "Republican" (whatever that means) Senators in a 50/50 Senate would vote in favour of converting it to a 50/52 Senate?
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Your points are good ones, but we can't forget the Puerto Ricans are first & foremost American citizens!

Do we want to have two classes of citizens?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Puerto Ricans are required to pay Social Security taxes but have no right to receive Social Security benefits?

I wonder why the phrase "No taxation without representation." sounds faintly in my ears.

Oh, wait, those Puerto Ricans aren't REAL Americans so they don't count.
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Puerto Ricans do receive Social Security. This case was about Supplemental Security Income. They are not the same. Social Security is largely funded through FICA which Puerto Ricans generally pay into. Supplemental Security Income is funded through the general fund which Puerto Ricans generally do not pay into. When he was in New York he received SSI on top of his SS and any income would have been taxed appropriately. When he went back to Puerto Rico his tax requirements would have changed as would the benefits he received.
 
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upsideguy said:
I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you agreeing that we have a colonial view of Puerto Rico or are you trying to suggest that Puerto Ricans do not want statehood, so why would we have them?

To be clear, Puerto Rico wants to be a state. Republicans don't want Puerto Rico to be a state nor do they want it to merely go away. Holding a territory where its citizens are of a lesser class of citizenship is is colonialism.

www.bbc.com

Puerto Rico wants to become the 51st state of the US

Voters in Puerto Rico have supported a non-binding referendum to become a full US state.
www.bbc.com
www.history.com

Why Isn't Puerto Rico a State?

As a U.S. territory, Puerto Rico is neither a state nor an independent country—and politics over its status remain complicated.
www.history.com www.history.com
www.pbs.org

Puerto Ricans voted for statehood. Will it happen?

Puerto Ricans voted ‘yes’ on a referendum asking whether or not the territory should become a U.S. state. But with control of Congress still yet to be determined and some in Washington making the issue of Puerto Rican statehood a partisan issue, what's the prospect of it actually happening? Hari...
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

Colonialism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

plato.stanford.edu
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To be clear that's not quite true. From one of your own citations:

In November 2020, Puerto Ricans voted in a non-binding referendum on statehood. About 53 percent of Puerto Ricans favored statehood, while 47 percent rejected it. However, only 55 percent of Puerto Ricans voted in the referendum. Statehood proponents viewed the results as proof that most Puerto Ricans want the territory to be admitted, but opponents questioned the validity of the votes as referendums are unbinding, often promoted solely by the pro-statehood party and include the opinions of only half of Puerto Ricans. Some people oppose statehood based on the argument that Puerto Rico will assimilate to the United States if it becomes a state.
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https://www.history.com/news/puerto-rico-statehood

While there WAS a referendum in 2020, only 55% of eligible voters participated in the referendum.

That means while 53% of that 55% voted for Statehood, not only did 47% vote against it, another 47% of the entire voting population opted NOT to vote at all.

So that's about 1/3 of the population voted for Statehood.
 
Moon said:
In general, I agree. The argument that 8 of the justices agreed with was since residents of Puerto Rico aren’t subject to the same taxes as residents of the 50 states, they can’t expect to receive the same level of benefits. That being the case, I don’t think this ruling creates two classes of citizens.
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Supplemental Security Income is not Social Security. People in this thread (not you) are conflating the two. SS is generally paid through FICA taxes which PR’s pay into. SSI comes out of the federal general fund which PR’s generally do not pay into. SSI is a benefit of living in the continental US. It’s like receiving a state or local benefit and losing that benefit when you go to a different state. The Constitution is very clear:

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

The defense’s argument is pretty weak. He claimed his rights were violated because of the due process clause. However, the SSI benefit was created with appropriate due process according to the Constitution and properly enacted by Congress and the Executive.

Generally speaking, Sotomayor’s judicial opinions can be disregarded as nonsense, and thus there was effectively a unanimous decision at the Supreme Court.
 
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TU Curmudgeon said:
Ummm - you do realize that whether or not Puerto Rico becomes a "full state" is NOT something that the Puerto Ricans can decide for themselves - don't you?

You do realize that even if 100% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could deny them statehood - don't you?

You do realize that even if 0.00% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could bestow statehood on them - don't you?

Can you imagine any situation in which any of the "Republican" (whatever that means) Senators in a 50/50 Senate would vote in favour of converting it to a 50/52 Senate?
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There are a lot of "coulds" in there. Puerto Rico can also vote to have complete autonomy, which is something you left out. Interesting that.
 
Vadinho said:
Notice how they did not deal with the specific tax and punted to a pool of taxes in order to justify screwing this man out of his money based upon his location. He paid his SS tax, he is a US citizen and he is getting screwed. Legally screwed.
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I did notice that.
 
GummyVitamins said:
I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Sotomayor is the dumbest justice on the Court. This should be another interesting read from her. It's amazing how she's been able to fail up all these years.
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She should have recused herself.
 
Chomsky said:
Your points are good ones, but we can't forget the Puerto Ricans are first & foremost American citizens!

Do we want to have two classes of citizens?
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Too late, we already do... (Is it the fault of the Bush-Trump, "white stacked" SCOTUS that wealthiest RWE have made the congress dysfunctional
to protect themselves from tax and IRS operational appropriation increases ?)

At least 40 percent of Puerto Ricans live below the poverty level and are not eligible to receive nutritional assistance of USDA's SNAP
program. Instead, they receive assistance from NAP, a capped blockgrant. Recipients of NAP are permitted to have slightly higher net
worth than SNAP beneficiaries but are limited to 20+% less annual maximum household income to qualify.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Zero Taxes, Golf and Beach Houses Create a Crypto Island Paradise​

After a meteoric year, investors are relocating to Puerto Rico for its savings on individual and corporate taxes.
By Francesca Maglione
December 11, 2021,

www.puertoricoreport.com

SNAP, NAP, and Equality for Puerto Rico - Puerto Rico Report

As a territory, Puerto Rico is treated differently from the 50 states in many ways. Usually, this means unequal – and lesser – treatment. For example, nutrition assistance (food stamps) in Puerto Rico is different from the system in the states. Puerto Rico receives capped funding for its...
www.puertoricoreport.com
May 7, 2021

"..While it would be beneficial for Puerto Rico to have equality in nutrition assistance, it would not be a permanent solution. After all, Puerto Rico was equal to states under the original Food Stamp program from 1974 to 1982. Under President Reagan — a statehood supporter — Congress replaced Food Stamps in Puerto Rico with NAP, a program that cost the United States 25% less than the Food Stamps program.

“The block grant capped funding at about 25 percent below what households in Puerto Rico would have received under the Food Stamp Program and did not include automatic annual adjustments for inflation, resulting in a greater gap over time,” explains the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “By 1984, for example, income eligibility limits were about 40 percent lower than they would have been in the Food Stamp Program, and eligibility and benefit restrictions contributed to NAP participants having fewer resources available for food.”

Congress can make changes to rules and laws for Puerto Rico at any time, regardless of the treatment of states under the same programs."
 
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Vadinho said:
Notice how they did not deal with the specific tax and punted to a pool of taxes in order to justify screwing this man out of his money based upon his location. He paid his SS tax, he is a US citizen and he is getting screwed. Legally screwed.
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reflechissez said:
I did notice that.
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This is only because you get your information from CNN and didn't actually read any of the primary source which was the actual decision. If you had, you'd know they discussed SSI at length.
 
GummyVitamins said:
This is only because you get your information from CNN and didn't actually read any of the primary source which was the actual decision. If you had, you'd know they discussed SSI at length.
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What are you on about now?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Yes, preventing Puerto Rico from becoming a state, in defiance of what it’s people want, is pretty clear colonialism.
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The people of Puerto Rico have not voted for statehood.

The proper solution is the retrocede Puerto Rico back to Spain or else devolve it into a protectorate with full self government.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Ummm - you do realize that whether or not Puerto Rico becomes a "full state" is NOT something that the Puerto Ricans can decide for themselves - don't you?
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Correct
TU Curmudgeon said:
You do realize that even if 100% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could deny them statehood - don't you?
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Correct, and they should deny them statehood because the territory is not deserving of it.
TU Curmudgeon said:
You do realize that even if 0.00% of the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a "full state" then the US government could bestow statehood on them - don't you?
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And they won’t, unless the democrats seize enough power to try to pack the senate
TU Curmudgeon said:
Can you imagine any situation in which any of the "Republican" (whatever that means) Senators in a 50/50 Senate would vote in favour of converting it to a 50/52 Senate?
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That’s a valid reason to not make it a state
 
EMNofSeattle said:
The people of Puerto Rico have not voted for statehood.

The proper solution is the retrocede Puerto Rico back to Spain or else devolve it into a protectorate with full self government.
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LOL! They don't vote G.O.P., so back to Spain they gotta go!

GOP a Bridge to 1960, When 90 Percent of the Population was White...​

https://nymag.com › intelligencer › 2016/01 › two-parties...

Jan 22, 2016 — If the Republican Party were a country, it would racially resemble the America of 1960, 55 years ago. Brownstein goes on to argue that Democrats ...
1b06dc7aa00427afe79489291cb2d703.jpg



PP_16.08.31_partyID_featured.png


1. The changing composition of the political parties​

Over the past quarter-century, the demographic profile of the U.S. has been changing: The country has become more racially and ethnically diverse, less
www.pewresearch.org

pewresearchracialethnicvoterscrop-jpg.67379185
 
Moon said:
Washington (CNN) - Congress can exclude residents of Puerto Rico from some federal disability benefits available to those who live in the 50 states, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

The 8-1 opinion was written by Justice Brett Kavanaugh, with Justice Sonia Sotomayor dissenting.

The case concerned Supplemental Security Income that is available to those living in the 50 states who are older than 65, blind or disabled. But residents of Puerto Rico and other US territories are excluded from receiving the funds.

"In devising tax and benefits programs, it is reasonable for Congress to take account of the general balance of benefits to and burdens on the residents of Puerto Rico," Kavanaugh wrote. "In doing so, Congress need not conduct a dollar-to-dollar comparison of how its tax and benefits programs apply in the States as compared to the Territories, either at the individual or collective level."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/poli...-court-federal-disability-benefits/index.html

——————

8-1 ruling is pretty conclusive. Interesting comments by Kavanaugh in the article.
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Loading…

www.supremecourt.gov

Held: The Constitution does not require Congress to extend SSI benefits to residents of Puerto Rico. In Califano v. Torres, 435 U. S. 1, and Harris v. Rosario, 446 U. S. 651, the Court applied the deferential rational-basis test to uphold Congress’s decision not to extend certain federal benefits to Puerto Rico, noting that because Congress chose to treat residents of Puerto Rico differently from residents of the States for purposes of tax laws, it could do the same for benefits programs. Those two precedents dictate the result here. Congress’s decision to exempt Puerto Rico’s residents from most federal income, gift, estate, and excise taxes supplies a rational basis for likewise distinguishing residents of Puerto Rico from residents of the States for purposes of the SSI benefits program. Vaello Madero’s contrary position would usher in potentially far-reaching consequences, with serious implications for the Puerto Rican people and the Puerto Rican economy. The Constitution does not require that extreme outcome. Pp. 4–6.
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Interesting argument putting equal rights vs territory clause.

However, it seems unfair that if he paid for SSI (through income tax), then doesnt get the benefit based on geographical location. Then again, PR has its own SSI program funded by the US.

This all seems like one more example of too big govt. PR shouldnt be a territory, feds shouldnt be running a Federal income supplement program.
 
post said:
LOL! They don't vote G.O.P., so back to Spain they gotta go!
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It was a mistake to assume it. Its more righting a wrong.
post said:

GOP a Bridge to 1960, When 90 Percent of the Population was White...​

https://nymag.com › intelligencer › 2016/01 › two-parties...

Jan 22, 2016 — If the Republican Party were a country, it would racially resemble the America of 1960, 55 years ago. Brownstein goes on to argue that Democrats ...
1b06dc7aa00427afe79489291cb2d703.jpg



https://debatepolitics.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pewresearch.org%2Fpolitics%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F4%2F2016%2F09%2FPP_16.08.31_partyID_featured.png%3Fw%3D640&hash=343c54cbc7b99bca34a22c981260cddf&return_error=1

1. The changing composition of the political parties​

Over the past quarter-century, the demographic profile of the U.S. has been changing: The country has become more racially and ethnically diverse, less
www.pewresearch.org

pewresearchracialethnicvoterscrop-jpg.67379185
Click to expand...
This sounds pretty racialist
 
Moon said:
Washington (CNN) - Congress can exclude residents of Puerto Rico from some federal disability benefits available to those who live in the 50 states, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

The 8-1 opinion was written by Justice Brett Kavanaugh, with Justice Sonia Sotomayor dissenting.

The case concerned Supplemental Security Income that is available to those living in the 50 states who are older than 65, blind or disabled. But residents of Puerto Rico and other US territories are excluded from receiving the funds.

"In devising tax and benefits programs, it is reasonable for Congress to take account of the general balance of benefits to and burdens on the residents of Puerto Rico," Kavanaugh wrote. "In doing so, Congress need not conduct a dollar-to-dollar comparison of how its tax and benefits programs apply in the States as compared to the Territories, either at the individual or collective level."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/poli...-court-federal-disability-benefits/index.html

——————

8-1 ruling is pretty conclusive. Interesting comments by Kavanaugh in the article.
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The Social Security Administration administers SSI payments, but the funds for SSI come from US Treasury General Funds. This general revenue comes from the Federal income taxes we pay, not FICA. Since Puerto Ricans do not pay Federal income tax, it seems reasonable that they should not be eligible for SSI. Maybe the law should be changed so that Puerto Ricans would have to pay Federal income tax. I bet they wouldn’t like that!
 
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