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Supreme Court Rejects bid to add Citizenship Question to 2020 Census

Now we don't know who is and who is not a citizen. How are you going to eliminate non citizens from the count if the question isn't provided. Usually, non citizens wouldn't fill out a survey, now everyone will.

The constituion requires a complete count of all residents of the US regardless of citizenship.

Don't like it, want to have the census to be far less useful tool, get the constitution changed.
 
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Then Trump should have kept his big trap shut! Are you suggesting that when Trump speaks from the podium he is not speaking as the President of the United States? He has continued to claim his taxes are under audit since being elected!

The House has the responsibility to determine what the heck the IRS is doing with the President's tax returns. You can't have it both ways. But I am sure you will create a circular argument in an effort to have it both ways.

What would the legislative purpose be in knowing whether Trump's tax returns are under audit or not?

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that there was a push to add an Amendment to the Constitution that candidates for president had to release their tax returns for public inspection. That would be "legislative intent" but it WOULD NOT mean that Trump had to release his returns because Congress is expressly prohibited from creating ex post facto laws. They might be able to get President Sparticus's returns but not Trump's.
 
why is getting an accurate number of undocumented aliens an issue?

can someone, anyone actually tell me HOW MANY we have in this country right now?

i have seen estimates....from a lot of differing agencies...but no one has any actual counts

dont we need to know that number? shouldnt we know that number?

this is our country's ten year census...if we cant get the number this way...then how do you suppose we get it?

or are we NEVER supposed to have the exact number of illegals here?
 
why is getting an accurate number of undocumented aliens an issue?

can someone, anyone actually tell me HOW MANY we have in this country right now?

i have seen estimates....from a lot of differing agencies...but no one has any actual counts

dont we need to know that number? shouldnt we know that number?

this is our country's ten year census...if we cant get the number this way...then how do you suppose we get it?

or are we NEVER supposed to have the exact number of illegals here?

According to the open border democrats you have no right to know. Just pony up your taxes to get them free everything.
 
The majority opinion does not Hold a citizenship question cannot be included, they state the contrary. Rather, the majority opinion stated inclusion of the citizenship question was not satisfactorily explained by the DOJ or the agency.

It is hardly improper for an agency head to come into office with policy preferences and ideas, discuss them with affected parties, sound out other agencies for support, and work with staff attorneys
to substantiate the legal basis for a preferred policy. Yet viewing the evidence as a whole, this Court shares the District Court’s conviction that the decision to reinstate a citizenship question cannot adequately be explained in terms of DOJ’s request for improved citizenship data to better enforce the VRA. Several points, taken together, reveal a significant mismatch between the Secretary’s decision and the
rationale he provided. The record shows that he began taking steps to reinstate the question a week into his tenure, but gives no hint that he was considering VRA enforcement. His director of policy attempted to elicit requests for citizenship data from the Department of Homeland Security and DOJ’s Office of Immigration Review before turning to the VRA rationale and DOJ’s Civil Rights Division. For its
part, DOJ’s actions suggest that it was more interested in helping the Commerce Department than in securing the data. Altogether, the evidence tells a story that does not match the Secretary’s explanation
for his decision. Unlike a typical case in which an agency may have both stated and unstated reasons for a decision, here the VRA enforcement rationale—the sole stated reason—seems to have been contrived. The reasoned explanation requirement of administrative law is meant to ensure that agencies offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public. The explanation provided here was more of a distraction. In these unusual circumstances, the District Court was warranted in remanding to the agency.​

So, it is entirely plausible the Trump Administration could add the citizenship question and survive on appeal should they be able to provide a more satisfactory rationale.
 
The Constitution was written for US Citizens in its own preamble thus the rest of the constitution is aligned with the preamble.

We the people of the Untied states, NOT We the people of (fill in the blank right here)

Electoral power and government funding is provided to each state by population. Under this new law states will be recruiting Illegal Aliens. We had no problem with a citizen question up to 2010 when it was removed. Now we are just going to do head counts?

Lets move 3 million into Florida and get 8 more electoral votes? Now we have non US citizens impacting US elections but everyone is afraid of Russian interference?

I am not sure what point you're trying to make. The EC and Congressional seats are allocated based on persons, not citizens. The Constitution refers to "citizens" several times, and could have in the relevant section if that's what they intended, but they instead used "Numbers" and not "citizens."

I don't care that you prefer the constitution says something different, because your opinion is not relevant to anything. What's a fact is that "non-citizens" have been "impacting US elections" since the beginning because that is what the constitution requires.

Put another way, if they do end up counting citizens, the allocation of congressional seats and therefore elections will be done based on all residents, persons, and NOT CITIZENS. What might be the ACTUAL intent of the question is to drive down the count of non-citizens so their numbers are erroneous and understated. But that's contrary to the clear intent of the Constitution. It appears you're unconcerned with the Constitution.
 
why is getting an accurate number of undocumented aliens an issue?

can someone, anyone actually tell me HOW MANY we have in this country right now?

i have seen estimates....from a lot of differing agencies...but no one has any actual counts

dont we need to know that number? shouldnt we know that number?

this is our country's ten year census...if we cant get the number this way...then how do you suppose we get it?

or are we NEVER supposed to have the exact number of illegals here?

You wouldn't get an accurate number of illegals, just worse census data.
 
And the above in bold is where you have gone entirely off the rails. They are not counted as citizens. They are just counted. The Census already has surveys that ask a citizenship question. The question does not belong on the US Census questionnaire.

The census form asks dozens of questions. A couple pages pertain to details concerning household residents. Down to education, income, marital status. Dozens of others. It also asks other details such as number of bathroom fixtures. Mortgage details.

https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d-61b.pdf

If I don't answer, I can be fined and/or jailed. Yet somehow the simplest most basic question, (Are you a citizen?) is a no no.

Either the census should be a one liner, how many people live here? Or any question is fair game.
 
Now we don't know who is and who is not a citizen. How are you going to eliminate non citizens from the count if the question isn't provided. Usually, non citizens wouldn't fill out a survey, now everyone will.

The Constitution requires that we count ALL PERSONS, so why would anyone eliminate non-citizens from the count when the law and the constitution requires that we count all persons, citizen or not?

Again, it seems you are sad that the Census will do as the Constitution requires it to do. That's a problem for you but no one else.
 
Nope...the Constitution was written to provide a framework for governing. Thats it....some of what is there is specific to citizens and some is not.

Yeah, lets just pretend the preamble doesn't exist.
 
What would the legislative purpose be in knowing whether Trump's tax returns are under audit or not?

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that there was a push to add an Amendment to the Constitution that candidates for president had to release their tax returns for public inspection. That would be "legislative intent" but it WOULD NOT mean that Trump had to release his returns because Congress is expressly prohibited from creating ex post facto laws. They might be able to get President Sparticus's returns but not Trump's.

Verifying an Official Statement made by the President to the American People. See how simple that was.
 
Yeah, lets just pretend the preamble doesn't exist.

Lets pretend you have any earthly idea what you are talking about. Sorry.... done pretending. That was quick wasn't it?
 
Fair decision, IMO.

No, it's not. Here's why: the Supreme Court acknowledged that, under the Administrative Procedures Act, the purported reason for the question was "pretextual". In other words, a lie. In virtually every other context such a determination results in a final decision rejecting the action, period. It is struck down, finally. Roberts didn't do that. Instead, he is giving the Commerce Secretary a second bite at the rotten apple to come up with a different pretext. In other words, a better lie. That is ridiculous, and purely partisan. Fortunately, the cat is already out of the bag, and another court has reached the racially-based reason for the question, meaning it will likely be enjoined on that basis.

But the harm has already been done, and the goal achieved. The real purpose of the question was to suppress Hispanic responses to the census to skew it toward white respondents, and manipulate redistricting. Hispanics are well aware of the Trump administration's lawless pursuit of a racist agenda, so they're already intimidated. They are already likely to be reluctant to give information that could be used against family members. Coupled with the gerrymandering decision, Roberts has shown his true partisan colors.
 
why is getting an accurate number of undocumented aliens an issue?

The census won't give you that number except indirectly even if the proposed question ultimately is OK'd. It only asks about citizenship, not whether you're an authorized or unauthorized resident, non-citizen.

can someone, anyone actually tell me HOW MANY we have in this country right now?

i have seen estimates....from a lot of differing agencies...but no one has any actual counts

dont we need to know that number? shouldnt we know that number?

this is our country's ten year census...if we cant get the number this way...then how do you suppose we get it?

or are we NEVER supposed to have the exact number of illegals here?

It's a shame I guess Ross was so incompetent, and that he decided to lie about why he wanted those numbers.
 
No, it's not. Here's why: the Supreme Court acknowledged that, under the Administrative Procedures Act, the purported reason for the question was "pretextual". In other words, a lie. In virtually every other context such a determination results in a final decision rejecting the action, period. It is struck down, finally. Roberts didn't do that. Instead, he is giving the Commerce Secretary a second bite at the rotten apple to come up with a different pretext. In other words, a better lie. That is ridiculous, and purely partisan. Fortunately, the cat is already out of the bag, and another court has reached the racially-based reason for the question, meaning it will likely be enjoined on that basis.

But the harm has already been done, and the goal achieved. The real purpose of the question was to suppress Hispanic responses to the census to skew it toward white respondents, and manipulate redistricting. Hispanics are well aware of the Trump administration's lawless pursuit of a racist agenda, so they're already intimidated. They are already likely to be reluctant to give information that could be used against family members. Coupled with the gerrymandering decision, Roberts has shown his true partisan colors.

The harm you speak of was done before the SC was ever asked to rule. Ruling the other way would have institutionalized it and if you don't think there is a difference, think again. So the sadistic gang that couldn't shoot straight gets another shot at it. By the time they can cobble anything together they will be down to Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and a bunch of Actings trying to do the cobbling.
 
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Even the most conservative scotus in my lifetime can see this is nonsense

Well, the majority decision did not Hold the citizenship question could not be added to the census or doing so would be unconstitutional. Rather, the majority opinion stated the rationale for inclusion of the citizenship question was not satisfactory. This permits the Trump Admin to try again and potentially prevail with a sufficient rationale.
 
Well, the majority decision did not Hold the citizenship question could not be added to the census or doing so would be unconstitutional. Rather, the majority opinion stated the rationale for inclusion of the citizenship question was not satisfactory. This permits the Trump Admin to try again and potentially prevail with a sufficient rationale.

Then take another swing. Good luck
 
Well, the majority decision did not Hold the citizenship question could not be added to the census or doing so would be unconstitutional. Rather, the majority opinion stated the rationale for inclusion of the citizenship question was not satisfactory. This permits the Trump Admin to try again and potentially prevail with a sufficient rationale.

Oh yea....Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny and the rest of the sadistic gang that couldn't shoot straight gets another shot at it. I won't be holding my breath.
 
The harm you speak of was done before the SC was ever asked to rule. Ruling the other way would have institutionalized it and if you don't think there is a difference, think again. So the sadistic gang that couldn't shoot straight gets another shot at it. By the time they can cobble anything together they will be down to Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and a bunch of Actings trying to do the cobbling.

I agree with all of that. Yes, institutionalizing it would have made it worse, but this doesn't make it better. And the repercussions/implications in other areas of the law are not good. Roberts left the door open for nefarious activity on purpose. This Court has consistently used such excuses to strike down government activities they don't like but excuse activities they do. This gives them a new tool to do so. This is not over. To understand the SCt, now, ask these three questions (in order): does it advantage Republicans? Does it advantage corporations? And will it further conservative causes (e.g., Christianity, institutionalized racial disparity, income inequality, constraints on women)?
 
Well, the majority decision did not Hold the citizenship question could not be added to the census or doing so would be unconstitutional. Rather, the majority opinion stated the rationale for inclusion of the citizenship question was not satisfactory. This permits the Trump Admin to try again and potentially prevail with a sufficient rationale.

I like that "sufficient rationale". A "better" lie. That's my problem. They didn't need to reach the constitutional issue to kill this attempt, but they kept it alive on purpose. They want to get to the other issue so they can skew constitutional precedent in Republican favor later. Roberts is playing the long game.
 
Ugh, look at this nonsense. Are you kidding?

If Trump and his racist menagerie clown car admin had not been caught lying about their intentions perhaps the SCOTUS would have ruled differently.

This is the correct ruling given the context.

Pretty much.
 
I doubt it is a correct ruling. I believe it would have been an unambiguous win for anyone else but Trump, and Roberts anti-Trump animus. Exactly why a power of any President is conditional upon the court's opinion of his sincerity is perplexing, unless the court's themselves are politicians in robes making political judgements on policy preferences (which they obviously are).

And it is no surprise that anti-Trump Roberts (aka, the weasel) wrote the majority opinion. More interestingly Alito does contribute his own opinion which establishes in principle that asking such a question is well within the bounds of the law.




Absolutely brilliant.

We know, anti-trump=wrong and worthy of some form of derogatory name.

The ruling is correct.

Next!
 
The Constitution requires that we count ALL PERSONS, so why would anyone eliminate non-citizens from the count when the law and the constitution requires that we count all persons, citizen or not?

Again, it seems you are sad that the Census will do as the Constitution requires it to do. That's a problem for you but no one else.

Then why did we change the law in 2010 to eliminate the question. Even the framers got it wrong? Education is the key
 
I am not sure what point you're trying to make. The EC and Congressional seats are allocated based on persons, not citizens. The Constitution refers to "citizens" several times, and could have in the relevant section if that's what they intended, but they instead used "Numbers" and not "citizens."

I don't care that you prefer the constitution says something different, because your opinion is not relevant to anything. What's a fact is that "non-citizens" have been "impacting US elections" since the beginning because that is what the constitution requires.

Put another way, if they do end up counting citizens, the allocation of congressional seats and therefore elections will be done based on all residents, persons, and NOT CITIZENS. What might be the ACTUAL intent of the question is to drive down the count of non-citizens so their numbers are erroneous and understated. But that's contrary to the clear intent of the Constitution. It appears you're unconcerned with the Constitution.

So for 200 years we all got it wrong. Got it
 
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