Supreme Court leans toward ending affirmative action in college admissions

[jaeger19]

Current policy is exactly what is being challenged in court. You seem to flip-flop from we don’t want racial quotas to the racial quotas are not currently being met.

And yet current policy has Asians making up 27.9% of the student body ..while as a population making up 7% of the population.
Boo friggin hoo.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Again with the punishment shtick.
Tell me..you brink cupcakes to your sons class .. a racist teacher gives the cupcakes only to Asian and white students and none to black students.
An aide sees what's going on and redistributed the cupcakes by taking the extra cupcakes away from the Asians and white kids with extras..and handing them to the Black kids. So everyone has a cupcake.

Did the aide PUNISH the white and Asian kids?
Should the aide said to the black kids " life's not fair"..

Now we know now that none of you here arguing against aa..have the intellectual honesty to answer.
Cuz you know you are wrong.

You are trying to fix something in college which you openly admit happened long before the college had any say in the matter.

 

[ttwtt78640]

And yet current policy has Asians making up 27.9% of the student body ..while as a population making up 7% of the population.
Boo friggin hoo.

Rest assured that 7% of the population is not responsible for racism in public K-12 schools.

What’s next - limiting black players to their ‘proper’ 14% in the NBA or NFL and adding AA for Asians?

Race and ethnicity in the NBA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why there are so few Asian Americans in major U.S. sports

For as long as experts can remember, perhaps for as long as organized American sports have existed, Asian groups have been underrepresented.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[jaeger19]

Rest assured that 7% of the population is not responsible for racism in public K-12 schools.

What’s next - limiting black players to their ‘proper’ 14% in the NBA or NFL and adding AA for Asians?

Race and ethnicity in the NBA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why there are so few Asian Americans in major U.S. sports

For as long as experts can remember, perhaps for as long as organized American sports have existed, Asian groups have been underrepresented.

sports.yahoo.com

Well. Gosh no.
As pointed out.. the Asians are way overrepresented at harvard.. UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM..
Kind of hard to claim Harvard is " throwing Asians to the street"..now isn't it.

You silly people.

 

[jaeger19]

You are trying to fix something in college which you openly admit happened long before the college had any say in the matter.

Yep.. and it continues today not just in the past..which schools recognize..and Asians to a degree benefit from it as do whites.
What's wrong with trying to adjust for that.
The Japanese were paid reparations for their internment decades after their internment. (1988)
Despite the fact that the people paying reparations ( taxes) by then were mostly children or not even born when the internment happened.

Do you disagree with paying reparations based on ...but but it happened decades ago?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well. Gosh no.
As pointed out.. the Asians are way overrepresented at harvard.. UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM..
Kind of hard to claim Harvard is " throwing Asians to the street"..now isn't it.

You silly people.

What is silly is expecting Harvard qualified applicants to be proportionally balanced by race. We don‘t expect qualified NBA or NFL applicants to be balanced by race, but somehow that is not seen as a problem worthy of an AA solution.

 

[jaeger19]

What is silly is expecting Harvard qualified applicants to be proportionally balanced by race. We don‘t expect qualified NBA or NFL applicants to be balanced by race, but somehow that is not seen as a problem worthy of an AA solution.

Well who is expecting that? Certainly not Harvard.
Harvard's current system way overrepresents Asians in its admissions policies.
It seem you are arguing against a strawman you created.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yep.. and it continues today not just in the past..which schools recognize..and Asians to a degree benefit from it as do whites.

I don't agree. That is just assumption bias. Based IMO on false narratives perpetuating the assumption that Blacks and other minorities face "systemic racism."

IMO you really ought to spend some time reading and/or listening to scholars like Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams, and a whole slew of "conservative " Black activists.

What's wrong with trying to adjust for that.

We have "adjusted for that." Over-adjusted IMO in the case of the Black Community with Uncle Sam making a dependency class of many Black America's wedded to Welfare and single-motherhood. Dependents instead of nuclear families with a father/husband in the house, and kids going to school to learn instead of the streets to "earn" via drugs, crime, gangs, and violence.

The Japanese were paid reparations for their internment decades after their internment. (1988)

If I recall correctly, the only Japanese who qualified for such were those who actually suffered internment. Can you point to any Black American alive today who suffered the life of a slave? Now my great-grandmother, who died in 1959 at the age of 100, was born in 1859. SHE might have qualified for reparations. But she never thought of that. Her son, my grandfather was told to work and go to school. He dug ditches while getting a high school diploma. He finagled that into a job in the NYC Morgue, and earned the support of the County Coroner who sponsored him for college and Medical School. This was all 1920's -30's. I could go on, but the point is Black Americans were working hard to "overcome" even in the bad old days.

Despite the fact that the people paying reparations ( taxes) by then were mostly children or not even born when the internment happened.

Again, the reparations in that case came from our government because it was by government order that the internments occurred. Thus, the Federal government WAS responsible. The reparations went to those families who were interned and by having been so, lost everything except what they could carry with them.

Do you disagree with paying reparations based on ...but but it happened decades ago?

LOL! If you really think Black American's deserve reparations, then you need to study your history. Almost all Black Africans captured and sold into slavery were taken and sold by other natve Africans. How's about we have those current nations pay reparations?

That is how silly your reparation arguments are.

 

[jaeger19]

I don't agree. That is just assumption bias. Based IMO on false narratives perpetuating the assumption that Blacks and other minorities face "systemic racism."

IMO you really ought to spend some time reading and/or listening to scholars like Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams, and a whole slew of "conservative " Black activists.



We have "adjusted for that." Over-adjusted IMO in the case of the Black Community with Uncle Sam making a dependency class of many Black America's wedded to Welfare and single-motherhood. Dependents instead of nuclear families with a father/husband in the house, and kids going to school to learn instead of the streets to "earn" via drugs, crime, gangs, and violence.



If I recall correctly, the only Japanese who qualified for such were those who actually suffered internment. Can you point to any Black American alive today who suffered the life of a slave? Now my great-grandmother, who died in 1959 at the age of 100, was born in 1859. SHE might have qualified for reparations. But she never thought of that. Her son, my grandfather was told to work and go to school. He dug ditches while getting a high school diploma. He finagled that into a job in the NYC Morgue, and earned the support of the County Coroner who sponsored him for college and Medical School. This was all 1920's -30's. I could go on, but the point is Black Americans were working hard to "overcome" even in the bad old days.



Again, the reparations in that case came from our government because it was by government order that the internments occurred. Thus, the Federal government WAS responsible. The reparations went to those families who were interned and by having been so, lost everything except what they could carry with them.



LOL! If you really think Black American's deserve reparations, then you need to study your history. Almost all Black Africans captured and sold into slavery were taken and sold by other natve Africans. How's about we have those current nations pay reparations?

That is how silly your reparation arguments are.

1. Multiple research studies prove you wrong. Heck common sense proves prove wrong.
2. I like research studies. Peer reviewed and hard data.
3. Yep.
Well any African American whose parents or grandparents went through segregation and Jim crow.
Any current African American who has taken the sat.or had to languish in a sub par school due to past/current racism
Any current African American whose parents or grandparents were redlined.
Or whose parents or grandparents were discriminated against for jobs..
Yep..black Americans had to work hard an d still do to overcome racial barriers..and that means that often despite that hard work..they could not pass on the prosperity they COULD have passed to their children or grandchildren
If they didn't have the barriers placed in front of them.
4. Redlining Jim crow ..segregation ..
The disparity in farm loans ...were all government institutions.
5. Nope. I don't think reparations for African americans are a good idea...next.
6. Um what silly reparations argument.?
Japanese Americans were interred when my parents hadn't been born yet..
Yet my parents had to pay for those reparations in taxes in 1988.
Dispelling the " but but it's unfair it was in the past".. argument.

 

[Captain Adverse]

1. Multiple research studies prove you wrong. Heck common sense proves prove wrong.

Says you, clearly lacking any of your second sentence.

2. I like research studies. Peer reviewed and hard data.

Peer review is not as valid as once believed. This has been discussed in other threads in the past.

3. Yep.
Well any African American whose parents or grandparents went through segregation and Jim crow.
Any current African American who has taken the sat.or had to languish in a sub par school due to past/current racism
Any current African American whose parents or grandparents were redlined.
Or whose parents or grandparents were discriminated against for jobs..

Nope. Not in any case you've listed. None! No one deserves reparations. I don't want them, it is just more taking money out of our own pockets just to give it back like manna from heaven.

Now, if any "white folks" who feel personally guilty want to create a "charity" (don't forget to set a proper 501c3 one up for tax purposes) and "redistribute" your own personal wealth? More power to you. Otherwise? NO!

Yep..black Americans had to work hard and still do to overcome racial barriers..and that means that often despite that hard work..they could not pass on the prosperity they COULD have passed to their children or grandchildren.

Bolded is untrue. IMO that's just your programming talking. It is also an example of the racism of low expectations which perpetuates what you seek to dispel.

Again, stop reading all the "activist" works and study not only REAL history, but people like the two gentlemen I mentioned in my first response. Balance that 1619/CRT propaganda with some reality. Life certainly wasn't wine and roses for us, but we were actively participating and achieving even despite such barriers.

If they didn't have the barriers placed in front of them.
4. Redlining Jim crow ..segregation ..
The disparity in farm loans ...were all government institutions.
5. Nope. I don't think reparations for African americans are a good idea...next.
6. Um what silly reparations argument.?
Japanese Americans were interred when my parents hadn't been born yet..
Yet my parents had to pay for those reparations in taxes in 1988.
Dispelling the " but but it's unfair it was in the past".. argument.

Blah blah blah! You put me to sleep with lists like that which WERE problems, but which are no longer problems today. We have different problems now, create by both "race grifters" in our own community and "white knights and saviors" in the white community. I get sick and tired of dealing with both groups. One seeking to gain power and wealth pushing lies, and the other seeking to atone for ills they are not responsible for, but creating new ones with ideas and beliefs like you keep spouting.

I'm done with you.

 

[jaeger19]

Says you, clearly lacking any of your second sentence.



Peer review is not as valid as once believed. This has been discussed in other threads in the past.



Nope. Not in any case you've listed. None! No one deserves reparations. I don't want them, it is just more taking money out of our own pockets just to give it back like manna from heaven.

Now, if any "white folks" who feel personally guilty want to create a "charity" (don't forget to set a proper 501c3 one up for tax purposes) and "redistribute" your own personal wealth? More power to you. Otherwise? NO!



Bolded is untrue. IMO that's just your programming talking. It is also an example of the racism of low expectations which perpetuates what you seek to dispel.

Again, stop reading all the "activist" works and study not only REAL history, but people like the two gentlemen I mentioned in my first response. Balance that 1619/CRT propaganda with some reality. Life certainly wasn't wine and roses for us, but we were actively participating and achieving even despite such barriers.



Blah blah blah! You put me to sleep with lists like that which WERE problems, but which are no longer problems today. We have different problems now, create by both "race grifters" in our own community and "white knights and saviors" in the white community. I get sick and tired of dealing with both groups. One seeking to gain power and wealth pushing lies, and the other seeking to atone for ills they are not responsible for, but creating new ones with ideas and beliefs like you keep spouting.

I'm done with you.

Naw ..says the research..
Heck ..common sense. Two men.. one black..one white. Both in the union both with the same union job same wages same finances.
The white fellow is able and allowed to buy into a good neighborhood where their are good schools ( due to increased home values)..
While the black fellow..despite the sane finances work ethic etc..is red lined and only allowed you buy a house in the poorer less desirable black neighborhood.
Where property values languish as does the area school system.
Thus reducing the chances of the black fellows children and grandchildren having a quality education compared to the white fellow who was allowed to buy where he wanted.
2. You don't even know what peer reviewed means much less can discuss its " validity".
3. Nope still true..from studies that show that African americans still get unequal treatment from banks.

8 Major American Banks That Got Caught Discriminating Against Black People

JPMorgan Chase & Co. JPMorgan Chase & Co. has been accused of discriminatory practices by both the city of Miami and the city of Los Angeles after

atlantablackstar.com

To studies that show people with black sounding names get less callbacks than white names despite being tge same resume.

Name Discrimination Study Finds Lakisha And Jamal Still Less Likely To Get Hired Than Emily And Greg

Economists sent 83,000 job applications to 108 companies. Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board.

www.wbur.org

And the facts go on and on.
4. Done with me? You never started.. lmao.

 

[snakestretcher]

Skip to 6:45 and you will quickly understand the problem with using race for college admissions:

By the way, your sig line? Victory over the British was only possible because of France, where Ben Franklin went begging for money, arms, ships, troops and military expertise. Without France's opportunity to hit back at Britain after suffering many disastrous defeats, America would have lost. Fact.

 

[snakestretcher]

Says you, clearly lacking any of your second sentence.



Peer review is not as valid as once believed. This has been discussed in other threads in the past.



Nope. Not in any case you've listed. None! No one deserves reparations. I don't want them, it is just more taking money out of our own pockets just to give it back like manna from heaven.

Now, if any "white folks" who feel personally guilty want to create a "charity" (don't forget to set a proper 501c3 one up for tax purposes) and "redistribute" your own personal wealth? More power to you. Otherwise? NO!



Bolded is untrue. IMO that's just your programming talking. It is also an example of the racism of low expectations which perpetuates what you seek to dispel.

Again, stop reading all the "activist" works and study not only REAL history, but people like the two gentlemen I mentioned in my first response. Balance that 1619/CRT propaganda with some reality. Life certainly wasn't wine and roses for us, but we were actively participating and achieving even despite such barriers.



Blah blah blah! You put me to sleep with lists like that which WERE problems, but which are no longer problems today. We have different problems now, create by both "race grifters" in our own community and "white knights and saviors" in the white community. I get sick and tired of dealing with both groups. One seeking to gain power and wealth pushing lies, and the other seeking to atone for ills they are not responsible for, but creating new ones with ideas and beliefs like you keep spouting.

I'm done with you.

Peer-review isn't valid? It's the Gold Standard for confirming study results as accurate. What a stupid thing to say!

Peer-Review

 

[Torus34]

It seems that all one must do, when discussing college admissions, is to mention 'affirmative action' and folks are off and running like a pack of hounds on the scent. One of the complaints often expresses is, "But that person is taking a seat away from someone with better academic credits."

Meanwhile, flying along under the radar, are the seats awarded to 'legacy' applicants. Colleges are quite silent on the number of seats granted and on the criteria for their selection. They, too, occupy seats no longer available to students with excellent academic records.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . educated.

 

[Hypothetical]

Yep. "Legacy" at these universities is basically affirmative action for whites.

all "whites" do not benefit from legacy, only the wealthy do.. legacy should be eliminated also.

 

[PoS]

Supreme Court leans toward ending affirmative action in college admissions


Good. Equality begins when we base our decisions on merit, accomplishments, and scholastic achievements, and not skin color.

Yup. Merit should be the only criteria in college admissions, not race quotas.

 

[jaeger19]

Yup. Merit should be the only criteria in college admissions, not race quotas.

Which only works if the measures of " merit" are not racially biased .
Currently in the us they are.

 

[eohrnberger]

"Supreme Court leans toward ending affirmative action in college admissions"

Isn't the real question of the matter whether 'affirmative action in college admissions' decision are made on a race basis or not?

 

[Captain Adverse]

It seems that all one must do, when discussing college admissions, is to mention 'affirmative action' and folks are off and running like a pack of hounds on the scent. One of the complaints often expresses is, "But that person is taking a seat away from someone with better academic credits."

Which remains true.

Meanwhile, flying along under the radar, are the seats awarded to 'legacy' applicants. Colleges are quite silent on the number of seats granted and on the criteria for their selection. They, too, occupy seats no longer available to students with excellent academic records.

Misinformation! Those "legacy" seats are provided for people (of any race btw) whose family has donated regularly and significantly to that particular educational facility. It is those donations that fund building construction, pay for research, pay for scholarships for poor and low income applicants. All sorts of funding, which is why they get "special dispensation." BTW, this is not "race based" either, as this applies to any person whose "family" has the wealth to do all that funding.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . educated.

I am educated. Well-educated in some areas where I hold academic degrees, both graduate and under-graduate. I've paid my way each time too.

 

[PoS]

Which only works if the measures of " merit" are not racially biased .
Currently in the us they are.

Tests are not racially biased. If they were then Asians wouldnt be doing so well on them.

 

[jaeger19]

Tests are not racially biased. If they were then Asians wouldnt be doing so well on them.

Tests can be racially biased.
It can be as simple as the fact tge more you take the sat..the better your score through experience.
The sat costs money. Those with less money can't take tge test multiple times.
Their are also tutoring programs and books for the sat. Those with more money ..i.e. such as a wealthier race..will have an advantage.

And tge test can be racially biased.
The sat throws out questions that a majority of people miss.
Well studies find out that their are questions that black people miss way more than white people...but they don't get thrown out because they are a minority..
But meanwhile they were questions that white people missed way way more than black people. But they got thrown out because white people are a majority.
Which gives white people and advantage.

As far as Asians doing well...the Asian experience is not exactly like other races in america. Each race is unique in its cultural and economic experience.

 

[highroller]

I wonder if they will get rid of minority scholarships too

 

[ttwtt78640]

Tests can be racially biased.
It can be as simple as the fact tge more you take the sat..the better your score through experience.
The sat costs money. Those with less money can't take tge test multiple times.
Their are also tutoring programs and books for the sat. Those with more money ..i.e. such as a wealthier race..will have an advantage.

And tge test can be racially biased.
The sat throws out questions that a majority of people miss.
Well studies find out that their are questions that black people miss way more than white people...but they don't get thrown out because they are a minority..
But meanwhile they were questions that white people missed way way more than black people. But they got thrown out because white people are a majority.
Which gives white people and advantage.

As far as Asians doing well...the Asian experience is not exactly like other races in america. Each race is unique in its cultural and economic experience.

OK, so everyone (anyone?) is ‘diverse’.

 

[jaeger19]

OK, so everyone (anyone?) is ‘diverse’.

hmmmm... not sure what you are asking.

You seem to think that there are only two different cultures. WHITE.. and "everyone else not white".

I point out.. that minorities in america.. hispanic, asian, african american, etc. all have different cultures and have even different subcultures when it comes to the united states experience.

Just because Asians might not experience discrimination etc the same as say hispanics does not mean racism didn;t occur.

I mean are you going to argue that segregation never took place then because Asians were not segregated like black people were?
Of course not.
Look.. we can all see how hard you are struggling to admit the truth. just face facts.

 

[ttwtt78640]

hmmmm... not sure what you are asking.

You seem to think that there are only two different cultures. WHITE.. and "everyone else not white".

I point out.. that minorities in america.. hispanic, asian, african american, etc. all have different cultures and have even different subcultures when it comes to the united states experience.

Just because Asians might not experience discrimination etc the same as say hispanics does not mean racism didn;t occur.

I mean are you going to argue that segregation never took place then because Asians were not segregated like black people were?
Of course not.
Look.. we can all see how hard you are struggling to admit the truth. just face facts.

Your argument is that we need to use ‘good’ racial discrimination in order to try to offset ‘bad’ racial discrimination. Where, exactly, is support for that to be found in our Constitution?