Supreme Court hears religious tolerance case of postal worker who didn't work Sundays

[weaver2]

Will employee religious needs be met? I have mixed feelings on this. As an employer, you have a job to get done.

And sometimes, that's on a Sunday.

If it were me, I wouldn't take a job that required I even remotely stand the chance of working on Sunday. However, will the religious needs of employees fall under the umbrella of 'reasonable accommodation'?

=============================

WASHINGTON —
The Supreme Court is being asked to decide under what circumstances businesses must accommodate the needs of religious employees.

A case before the justices Tuesday involves a Christian mail carrier in rural Pennsylvania. He was told that as part of his job he'd need to start delivering Amazon packages on Sundays. He declined, saying his Sundays are for church and family. U.S. Postal Service officials initially tried to get substitutes for the man’s shifts, but they couldn’t always. When he didn’t show, that meant more work for others. Ultimately, the man quit and sued for religious discrimination.

The case is the latest religious confrontation the high court has been asked to referee. In recent years, the court's 6-3 conservative majority has been particularly sensitive to the concerns of religious plaintiffs. That includes a ruling last year in which the court said a public high school football coach should be allowed to pray on the field after games. Another case the court is weighing this term involves a Christian graphic artist who wants to create wedding websites, but doesn't want to serve gay couples.

Supreme Court hears religious tolerance case of postal worker who didn't work Sundays

The Supreme Court is being asked to decide under what circumstances businesses must accommodate the needs of religious employees.

www.wlwt.com

The SC 's 1977 of interpretation of undue hardship is being challenged. The Christian Right says the definition of undue hardship is Constitutionally wrong because it doesn't consider whether there is undue hardship on co-workers if the religious worker's accommodations are met. Apparently what Christians are going to argue is that in a big company accommodating a religious observation doesn't affect co-workers so it is not an undue hardship.

There are thousands of little independent Christian Right denominations with an equal number of prohibitions, regulations, dogma and requirements that they can bring to the work place and demand that the employer accommodate them because it won't create an undue hardship on co-workers.

In speculation: the prohibition against proselytizing and public prayers at the work place and schools has angered the Christian Right. It seem possible that this case is being brought to force employers to allow them to bring their religion into the workplace

 

[Gaius46]

Finally, a SCOTUS case specifically about the field of law that I practice.

As a plaintiff-side federal employment lawyer, a win for Mr. Groff would set a helpful precedent for me and my clients.

Alito spoke about all the curae briefs they got from a number of different religious organizations. The tea leaves would say that he's probably amenable to the plaintiff.

 

[Gaius46]

If we were talking about delivery of prescription medication or home heating oil in a cold climate, then fine. There is potential harm to others if a deliver waits until Monday. Less so in cases of party decorations or toothpaste.

I'd be surprised if their contract with Amazon actually worked that way. The issue from the Post Office's perspective isn't how important the stuff being delivered is but rather meeting their contractual obligations.

The Post Office will survive if they lose the real question is what it means for every other employer out there.

 

[NatMorton]

I'd be surprised if their contract with Amazon actually worked that way. The issue from the Post Office's perspective isn't how important the stuff being delivered is but rather meeting their contractual obligations.

The Post Office will survive if they lose the real question is what it means for every other employer out there.

If there a clause in a contract that says "you may need to work Sundays" and the employee signed that, then yes, that's an entirely different matter.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'm telling you - Iran is calling.

You'd fit right in.

 

[Luce]

We should totally unironically bring back blue laws,

Norway has blue laws. In Norway commercial vehicles can’t even operate on the roads on Sunday. Grocery stores either close or have a tiny seperate section which sells only staple foods open for a few hours, all banks and government offices closed, only a small number of services open.

It’s really good and it creates an atmosphere of rest on Sunday

Yeah, but most of us don't give a shit what your collection of bronze age fairy tales say.

 

[Luce]

Correct your atheism doesn’t supersede the majority religion

It does. Nobody gives a shit about your primitive, superstitious beliefs.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It does. Nobody gives a shit about your primitive, superstitious beliefs.

This was the attitude of the Turkish elite which finally resulted in backlash in the form of Erdogan

 

[Luce]

This was the attitude of the Turkish elite which finally resulted in backlash in the form of Erdogan

Well there's no Turks in Tucson, so **** your collection of whackjob beliefs.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Well there's no Turks in Tucson, so **** your collection of whackjob beliefs.

 

[nullus]

We should totally unironically bring back blue laws,

Norway has blue laws. In Norway commercial vehicles can’t even operate on the roads on Sunday. Grocery stores either close or have a tiny seperate section which sells only staple foods open for a few hours, all banks and government offices closed, only a small number of services open.

It’s really good and it creates an atmosphere of rest on Sunday

Why should religious norms be imposed on a pluralist society as a whole and especially on members of society who do not subscribe to a particular set of religious tenets?

 

[nullus]

That’s not how employment law works in America,

Is it not "at will" in most cases?

What you really mean is you hate Christians and want to use corporate greed to oppress them.

Corporate greed, built America. Are you a communist?

That’s what this is really about

No, it is about serving society. If no one patronizes a business on any given day, do you really believe that it will stay open on that day?

 

[nullus]

Meaning the majority of the population

Yet because of the Constitution, the minority does not have to suffer the oppression of the majority.

Correct your atheism doesn’t supersede the majority religion

But the Constitution does.

Sorry for you. Maybe communist China is more your speed

Yet it was you who complained about corporate greed.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Yet because of the Constitution, the minority does not have to suffer the oppression of the majority.

But the Constitution does.

Yet it was you who complained about corporate greed.

The constitution says none of these things

Blue laws were a routine part of American life until very recently. If the framers of the constitution cared about it they would ban them in the constitution

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Would you rather he didn't work? That would help the economy, like the clowns who quit during Covid.

Were I his coworkers, I'd rather I didn't have to work every Sunday just because this guy doesn't want to.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Were I his coworkers, I'd rather I didn't have to work every Sunday just because this guy doesn't want to.

Well ideally the post office shouldn’t have anyone working on Sunday period. It should be like Chick Fil-A

Or the post office could make working Sunday totally voluntary but paid at double time. They’d have no issues staffing Sunday then

 

[Gordy327]

The constitution says none of these things

The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Individuals are treated equal under the law. So the majority cannot have tyranny over the minority.

Blue laws were a routine part of American life until very recently. If the framers of the constitution cared about it they would ban them in the constitution

Everything is legal until it is not. The Founding Fathers delegated such matters to state and/or judicial review.

Well ideally the post office shouldn’t have anyone working on Sunday period. It should be like Chick Fil-A

Why? Can you provide a non-religious reason?

Or the post office could make working Sunday totally voluntary but paid at double time. They’d have no issues staffing Sunday then

That's up to the Federal government.

 

[weaver2]

We should totally unironically bring back blue laws,

Norway has blue laws. In Norway commercial vehicles can’t even operate on the roads on Sunday. Grocery stores either close or have a tiny seperate section which sells only staple foods open for a few hours, all banks and government offices closed, only a small number of services open.

It’s really good and it creates an atmosphere of rest on Sunday

You need to give links to your statements. Here is what I found about driving, shopping and drinking in Norway, with links.

There are no driving restrictions in Norway at weekends or public holidays.

Road Transport Operations Norway

Norway is a Nordic country in Northern Europe whose mainland territory comprises the western and northernmost portion of the Scandinavian Peninsula.

www.transportsfriend.org

In Norway only petrol stations, flower nurseries and grocery shops that are smaller than 100 square metres (1,100 sq ft) are allowed to operate on Sundays. For special occasions such as Christmas shopping there are exceptions.

Sunday shopping - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Norway has strict laws regarding the sale of alcohol. Beer and wine may be served in hotels and restaurants 7 days a week, but hard liquor can be sold only between 3 and 11:45pm -- and never on Sunday.

Regardless of the opening hours of an individual store, all supermarkets have limited hours in which they can sell alcohol. After 8pm on weekdays, 6pm on Saturdays, and all day Sundays, only licensed bars and clubs are permitted to sell alcohol.

Alcohol in Norway: Regulations, Tax Rates & Where to Buy It

The sale of alcohol is subject to strict government regulations. And then there's the tax, and the duty. Here’s what you need to know about buying alcohol in Norway. It's a mistake every new arrival

www.lifeinnorway.net

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Individuals are treated equal under the law. So the majority cannot have tyranny over the minority.

That is a stretch and in any event it doesn’t have any relevance to laws restricting trade on Sunday

Everything is legal until it is not. The Founding Fathers delegated such matters to state and/or judicial review.

The founders delegated nothing to judicial review. That was a power usurped the current scotus is fixing this though

Why? Can you provide a non-religious reason?

not one that will satisfy greedy atheists so there’s no point in bothering with you

That's up to the Federal government.

Yeah. That’s the purpose of advocating change in policy

 

[Jason Warfield]

Will employee religious needs be met? I have mixed feelings on this. As an employer, you have a job to get done.

And sometimes, that's on a Sunday.

If it were me, I wouldn't take a job that required I even remotely stand the chance of working on Sunday. However, will the religious needs of employees fall under the umbrella of 'reasonable accommodation'?

=============================

WASHINGTON —
The Supreme Court is being asked to decide under what circumstances businesses must accommodate the needs of religious employees.

A case before the justices Tuesday involves a Christian mail carrier in rural Pennsylvania. He was told that as part of his job he'd need to start delivering Amazon packages on Sundays. He declined, saying his Sundays are for church and family. U.S. Postal Service officials initially tried to get substitutes for the man’s shifts, but they couldn’t always. When he didn’t show, that meant more work for others. Ultimately, the man quit and sued for religious discrimination.

The case is the latest religious confrontation the high court has been asked to referee. In recent years, the court's 6-3 conservative majority has been particularly sensitive to the concerns of religious plaintiffs. That includes a ruling last year in which the court said a public high school football coach should be allowed to pray on the field after games. Another case the court is weighing this term involves a Christian graphic artist who wants to create wedding websites, but doesn't want to serve gay couples.

Supreme Court hears religious tolerance case of postal worker who didn't work Sundays

The Supreme Court is being asked to decide under what circumstances businesses must accommodate the needs of religious employees.

www.wlwt.com

I remember when folks had problems with people who wore turbans at the post office...

This is kind of interesting though, because so many people complain about how giving concessions to workplace demands in other ways would drive up the price of products and services and cause loss of employment and such.

This is no different. The employer has to spend more money to make the concession. Further, it appears that the employers made efforts to try to accommodate this guy, but in the end, they couldn't always.

Personally, I feel that if my employer made an honest effort to accommodate me with my religion beliefs and it wasn't working very well...I wouldn't sue, I'd find another job where they would be able to grant me what I needed. Jobs change and sometimes if you can't make adjustments, its just better to move on.

And then there is the Bible to contend with...it's a little confusing but technically...the Sabbath falls on Saturday. Not Sunday. Basically, in Romans, 14:5-6, Paul talks about how basically one day is as good as another to worship God. And in Romans, 14:12, he essentially says what is important is a that full accounting to God is ultimately what is needed, the day it is done on is not as important.

So, basically, I think this guy's lawsuit should be dismissed. I think he's being honest in what he wants to do, but it isn't necessary. And also...if the courts agree with him...that opens Pandora's box for all other religions and their customs as well. Which means people of other religions get to do things you think they shouldn't be able to do.

 

[weaver2]

That is a stretch and in any event it doesn’t have any relevance to laws restricting trade on Sunday
The founders delegated nothing to judicial review. That was a power usurped the current scotus is fixing this though
not one that will satisfy greedy atheists so there’s no point in bothering with you
Yeah. That’s the purpose of advocating change in policy

It doesn’t work like that. With no blue laws corporations will largely make their workers work on Sunday and not respect its significance, which is why this case is now up to SCOTUS.
So really the government needs to mandate this and if you want to work on Sunday too bad for you.

Seperation of church and state merely means we don’t have a state denomination for the federal government.
Religious practices like no labor on Sunday Can be imposed as long as they are imposed equally on everyone

You are perpetually annoyed or disgusted or angry with either the government, the politics, the parties, the policies, the courts, the laws, the culture and most of the people.

Why are you still here?

 

[Parrish]

It's only a matter of time before cops, firefighters and the military request Sundays off.

 

[weaver2]

I remember when folks had problems with people who wore turbans at the post office...

This is kind of interesting though, because so many people complain about how giving concessions to workplace demands in other ways would drive up the price of products and services and cause loss of employment and such.

This is no different. The employer has to spend more money to make the concession. Further, it appears that the employers made efforts to try to accommodate this guy, but in the end, they couldn't always.

Personally, I feel that if my employer made an honest effort to accommodate me with my religion beliefs and it wasn't working very well...I wouldn't sue, I'd find another job where they would be able to grant me what I needed. Jobs change and sometimes if you can't make adjustments, its just better to move on.

And then there is the Bible to contend with...it's a little confusing but technically...the Sabbath falls on Saturday. Not Sunday. Basically, in Romans, 14:5-6, Paul talks about how basically one day is as good as another to worship God. And in Romans, 14:12, he essentially says what is important is a that full accounting to God is ultimately what is needed, the day it is done on is not as important.

So, basically, I think this guy's lawsuit should be dismissed. I think he's being honest in what he wants to do, but it isn't necessary. And also...if the courts agree with him...that opens Pandora's box for all other religions and their customs as well. Which means people of other religions get to do things you think they shouldn't be able to do.

Pray rugs in the post office; mezuzahs in malls; holy water in hotels; Bibles in bars for evangelicals to pound? What about saffron robes at construction sites; elimination of alcohol where it might offend and finally, required Christian prayer back in public schools, town meetings, athletic contests, graduations and where ever else the religious right wants it imposed

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Pray rugs in the post office; mezuzahs in malls; holy water in hotels; Bibles in bars for evangelicals to pound? What about saffron robes at construction sites; elimination of alcohol where it might offend and finally, required Christian prayer back in public schools, town meetings, athletic contests, graduations and where ever else the religious right wants it imposed

Sounds good to me. Let’s make this a reality and make the world a better place

 

[weaver2]

Sounds good to me. Let’s make this a reality and make the world a better place

It's my experience that organized religion of any kind seldom make anything better.