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Support the Troops

FinnMacCool

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Has anyone ever recognized those yellow ribbons for what they truly are? They are a well hidden form of propaganda. Nobody can disagree with the statement support our troops but you can't agree with it if you disagree with the war, as some conservatives have pointed out. I can tell what side politically they are on just by those yellow ribbons. Has anyone else noticed this?
 

cnredd

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FinnMacCool said:
Has anyone ever recognized those yellow ribbons for what they truly are? They are a well hidden form of propaganda. Nobody can disagree with the statement support our troops but you can't agree with it if you disagree with the war, as some conservatives have pointed out. I can tell what side politically they are on just by those yellow ribbons. Has anyone else noticed this?
I wanna see you explain that sentence....

"Nobody can disagree with it but you can't agree with it".:roll:
 

FinnMacCool

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The way the country is now, the military is very well respected and trying to disagree with something like that in a war like this is almost seen as terrorist like, so to speak. However, if you do say that you support the troops but don't support the war then that is just wrong because you can't "support the troops" if you don't support the mission. Sorry I should've been more clear. do you understand now?
 

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FinnMacCool said:
The way the country is now, the military is very well respected and trying to disagree with something like that in a war like this is almost seen as terrorist like, so to speak. However, if you do say that you support the troops but don't support the war then that is just wrong because you can't "support the troops" if you don't support the mission. Sorry I should've been more clear. do you understand now?
Oh, I KNOW what you're getting at...you're just making it jumbled...

The majority of people against this war are just against the President...When the last President issued a "regime change policy" everybody on the left loved the harsh language, but wouldn't DARE lift a finger about actually DOING it.

This President IS doing something about it...It should've been done before he even came into office, so he's actually doing it because the last guy spoke loudly, but carried a small stick.

Guaranteed...If the President was from the left and doing this, he'd have a hell of a lot more Conservatives on his side than if the situation was reversed like it is now...
 

Z.D.

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FinnMacCool

You have the best signature. I love 1984.
 

FinnMacCool

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The majority of people against this war are just against the President
Or the other way around?

When the last President issued a "regime change policy" everybody on the left loved the harsh language, but wouldn't DARE lift a finger about actually DOING it.

This President IS doing something about it...It should've been done before he even came into office, so he's actually doing it because the last guy spoke loudly, but carried a small stick.
Can't really argue against this. It was a little before my time I guess. But if Clinton didn't do anything, Bush does things but does the wrong things.

Guaranteed...If the President was from the left and doing this, he'd have a hell of a lot more Conservatives on his side than if the situation was reversed like it is now...
I doubt that. All politicians are crooked. They don't have any sense of right and wrong. As you can probably tell I have a very low opinion of them haha.

Z.D. Thanks bud. I can't take credit for making it though, unfortunately, cause it is pretty clever. I don't think its been used as a signature before but I'll get rid of it if I ever see someone else using it on another forum.
 
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Inuyasha

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As a veteran of a former conflict whose servicemen were greatly wronged by the American people I was elated to here this slogan. However when i saw that it was coming from the mouths of many of my gereation who failed to serve or serve honorably because some of them "had other things to do", it set me to thinking.

Those people who had "better things to do" back then often opted for student deferments, reserve duty in obscure units that would never be called to active duty etc. etc and NOW they are serving in cushy government jobs. These people never want to be caught up in the same situation of opposition to the soldiers who do serve. They are often embarassed or feel guilt. They have what i call "post Viet Nam syndrome". They have successfully passed this guilt on to a younger generation. They have not told you what "support the troops" really means nor how to do it. And they themselves continue to oppose the very slogan they have propagated.

"Support the troops" does not just mean sending letters to anonymous service personel, sending them toilet paper or buying them body armor (God knows why that ever happened). The greatest work in truly supporting the troops comes not so much now when they are in uniform and photographed in heroci deeds by the media , the true test is when they come home and take off that uniform and exchange it for a hospital robe and a pair of crutches. "Support the troops" goes hand in hand with "Do not forget those who have served."

The job that is being done in this respect is not being done very well. A one billion dollar short fall in VA medical benifits isn't a bad place to start to find out just who really does "support the troops". Certainly not the politicians who voted this down. These people and all of us must ask ourselves how we can support the troops especially those damaged by war. But no one is talking about that. They are saying thank you for your service and you sacrifice, now please go away quietly. Well I along with a number of veterans of the Viet nam era are not going to go away quietly. Many have been silent and suffering in pain with only the confort of other ezx-GIs. But we are not going sit still and see the same abuse happen to our sons and daughters. Some like myself, have great family support but that's all too often where it ends. But what of those who don't have that family support group behind them? Well YOU and our leaders are that support. We still have thousands of GI wandering the streets of out nation with nothing but bad memories and little more. People look at the maimed with distain when they get on a bus in a wheelchair or constanly talk to themselves in public. Many just look away to avoid seeing these people.

War and combat wound everyone who has been there for 5 seconds, 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 months. You become permenantly changed even if there is not a mark on the body. In a sense we all have become damaged goods. Not just those of us who suffer physically but the others too.

YOU can do something that the politicians only do in the weeks before an election. You can "support" these troops and help many of them back to a useful life. Monet Oh yes a donation won't hurt but did you ever think about donating some more valuble... TIME. How many of you have been to a VA hospital ot clinic to say to those people "Thanks for your service." You can do this. It just takes a day out of your life. You bosses should allow you to take a day to do this. The government should allow you the freedom to do this. If you can do this you will be a real hero who has made a difference.

War is a b***h with a double edged axe.

Pardon my rant but this is a very passionate subject with me.

I was once on a train in Europe in about 1975. My legs pained me no end from injury suffered 10 years earlier. A German lady asked me if I needed any help and we bagan to talk. I guess I showed too much self pity and at that shee raise the pant leg of her husband who had been wounded 30 years eariler. His legs were still pus filled and bleeding after more than 30 years . He needed constant treatment. I could have cried but I stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Yes please "support the troops". Start today.
 

kal-el

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Great post Inuyasha. It seems like people against this war are said by others that they don't support our troops. That's bull****. This war is illegal, immoral, definetly increased world terror, and waged without the support of much of the world. I totally support our troops, they are the backbone of America, they are our essence, our face, our values. Like I said before, they're sense of obligation is totally being taken advantage of.
 

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Inuyasha said:
They have not told you what "support the troops" really means nor how to do it. And they themselves continue to oppose the very slogan they have propagated. .
Excellent post. You captured a lot of what I feel. I was way too young for Vietnam but most of my teachers were Vietnam-era, and when I became an adult, I dated some Vietnam vets. :cool: I felt nation's attitude change with the first Gulf War, where we went super-supportive, almost as a guilt trip, to somehow make up for not supporting military during Vietnam. I worked with a guy back then who had served in Vietnam. When he came home, he flew into the airport in LA, and he got so much sh** from people in the airport for being a soldier he had to change out of his uniform in the bathroom before getting on his next flight. It just breaks my heart.

Then, my mother told me of an incident in 1963 when my dad came home on leave from the Army. He was drafted (one of the last married groups to be drafted), and he and my mother were out to dinner one night, in a small town in Maryland, and some guy *spat* in my father's face for being in the military!
My dad didn't even want to be in the military, so they were spitting on the wrong guy. But it made a huge impression on me.

And I knew that would be the fallout of this war, too. People feel sad for the men and women who died in combat, and they should honor them. But I know Vietnam vets intimately and like you said, there is so much more damage going on in many of them. When Bush announced we were going to war in 2003, I wonder if that ever crossed his mind. It was *my* first thought. That part of the war never ends.....

Inuyasha said:
People look at the maimed with distain when they get on a bus in a wheelchair or constanly talk to themselves in public. Many just look away to avoid seeing these people..
I live in DC. Near Walter Reed. You know how many young men I'm seeing these days walking around in the malls and stuff missing a leg? Breaks my heart. We are so untouched by war here in the US, unlike WWII with rationing and black outs. I wonder how many people actually know that many of these amputees suddenly appearing in our neighborhood are vets.

Inuyasha said:
How many of you have been to a VA hospital ot clinic to say to those people "Thanks for your service." You can do this. .
Good point. What if I went up to one of these guys in the mall and thanked him? Would it bother him (which is why I've never done it)?

Thank you very much for your post. You've given me a lot to think about. I wish you the best.
 

Inuyasha

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I am sure that any show of compassion will be well received.
 

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I see lots of misguided attempts to support our troops. Believe it or not, I think the guy who spit on Snoozin's father was doing a better job of supporting the troops than people who say things like, "you can't purport to support the troops without supporting their mission."

Let me explain:
"Troops" is a term that refers to a big group of well-armed people who murder other people (Inuyasha, I'm sure you're an honorable person when not in combat and that you've never done murder outside of that situation but if you've seen active duty you *have* done murder... That's part of the reason war veterans are always mentally troubled.). For the individuals living in areas where troops (ours or somebody else's) are "in action," that's a very scary thing. Last year I saw a report that 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died in the fighting and if you're surprised by this you shouldn't be because the textbook definition of a modern war is one in which more civilians die than soldiers.

So should we just disband our military force? I would certainly like to but I can think of some obscure and terrible situations where I'd want them around; mostly if somebody else's military were to become "in action" where I live. So that leaves me with a quandary: Do I lend support and adoration to the things my troops do, or do I withold my support? The answer is neither.

Again, let me explain:
The United States has a military system that was unique to us when we created it. We have a civilian-controlled military in that the highest rank of the military is the President who is a civilian elected by the population. So we, the civilian population, have a responsibility to treat those members with respect and only ask them to murder in defense of us.

Here's a list of things that mainstream America does that is unsupported:

  1. Sending troops to murder for profit constitutes a lack of support for the troops.
  2. Sending troops to murder for ideology (anti-communism) constitutes a lack of support for the troops
  3. Refusing to call Vietnam a war so we don't have to pick up psychologist bills for veterans constitutes a lack of support for the troops

Even if liberals tend to gather in groups and protest or even attack returning veterans (BTW, just to make my stance clear I think those Vietnam Vet attacks were abhorrent), they're not typically guilty of any of the things on that list... Perhaps a more liberal government is something we can give our troops in support of them?
 

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If you know anything about the military and the chain of command and have ever seen and organizational chart you would know that the President of the United States be he Republican or Democrat is at the top of that chart.....He is the Commander in Chief........He is the number one troop.......He defines the mission..........The tropps carry out that mission........If you don't support the mission, the job that the troops are trying to accomplish then it is impossible to support the troops..........
 

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Navy Pride said:
If you know anything about the military and the chain of command and have ever seen and organizational chart you would know that the President of the United States be he Republican or Democrat is at the top of that chart.....He is the Commander in Chief........He is the number one troop.......He defines the mission..........The tropps carry out that mission........If you don't support the mission, the job that the troops are trying to accomplish then it is impossible to support the troops..........
And again with the reading comprehension...he said...the President is in charge of the military and that the president is elected by civilians. Please, read a friggin post, chief.
 

aps

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cnredd said:
Oh, I KNOW what you're getting at...you're just making it jumbled...

The majority of people against this war are just against the President...When the last President issued a "regime change policy" everybody on the left loved the harsh language, but wouldn't DARE lift a finger about actually DOING it.

This President IS doing something about it...It should've been done before he even came into office, so he's actually doing it because the last guy spoke loudly, but carried a small stick.

Guaranteed...If the President was from the left and doing this, he'd have a hell of a lot more Conservatives on his side than if the situation was reversed like it is now...
Cnredd, that's kind of an ignorant statement. I do not like this president. I cannot stand his policies. However, after September 11th, he was a fabulous leader, and I stood behind him. I supported our mission to go into Afghanistan. I do not support the war in Iraq and it's not because I think Bush is a loser. You make it seem as though this war would be popular if it was another president who wanted it. Ha. Somehow I highly doubt that. By the way, the majority of Americans no longer support this war.


On a separate note (and not directed at Cnredd), I pointed out in another post, and I will do it again here to remind everyone how much our Commander in Chief cares about his troops: Bush had a dinner party some time ago where he was showing slides. He made a joke about not being able to find WMDs in Iraq and wondered where they were. He showed pictures of him looking under his desk in the Oval office and other locations in the White House. Huh? While our soldiers are getting killed and maimed, Bush is making a joke about not finding WMDs? Talk about an asshole.
 

kal-el

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Originally posted by aps
While our soldiers are getting killed and maimed, Bush is making a joke about not finding WMDs? Talk about an asshole.
I second that thought.:2razz:
 

Navy Pride

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jallman said:
And again with the reading comprehension...he said...the President is in charge of the military and that the president is elected by civilians. Please, read a friggin post, chief.
By that comment my liberal friend it is obvious that you have nevery been in the military or know anything about the chain of command........
 

Navy Pride

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cnredd said:
Oh, I KNOW what you're getting at...you're just making it jumbled...

The majority of people against this war are just against the President...When the last President issued a "regime change policy" everybody on the left loved the harsh language, but wouldn't DARE lift a finger about actually DOING it.

This President IS doing something about it...It should've been done before he even came into office, so he's actually doing it because the last guy spoke loudly, but carried a small stick.

Guaranteed...If the President was from the left and doing this, he'd have a hell of a lot more Conservatives on his side than if the situation was reversed like it is now...
I am not saying all people on the left hate President Bush but I think the majority do.......They are obsessed with their hatred for this man........They are not over the 2000 presidential election and will probably never get over it..........

I put up with 8 years of Bill Clinton...I thought he embarrassed and disgraced the office of the presidency but I did not hate him.............Even though he did not get the backing of the UN in the military engagements he started I backed him because he is the Commander in Chief ..........
 

Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
You can claim that's the motive, but what do you say about people who supported him in 2000 and over time realized that he is an abomination against the office of the Presidency?
I don't know what people you are talking about...In 2004 he got 11,000,000 more votes then he got in 2000......:confused:
 

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Navy Pride said:
By that comment my liberal friend it is obvious that you have nevery been in the military or know anything about the chain of command........
you sure do extrapolate a lot of bullshit from everything you read. I am serious again...I want some of whatever you are smoking. All I did was paraphrase what you yourself said. Read much?

You know, you are really disgusting on so many levels. I cant believe how you belittle my military service just because I stand in opposition to some of your whacked out beliefs. By that comment, I find it hard to believe you ever served because I for one would never belittle another serviceman for his service. I will tell you what is obvious...you need a language tutor.
 

Navy Pride

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jallman said:
you sure do extrapolate a lot of bullshit from everything you read. I am serious again...I want some of whatever you are smoking. All I did was paraphrase what you yourself said. Read much?

You know, you are really disgusting on so many levels. I cant believe how you belittle my military service just because I stand in opposition to some of your whacked out beliefs. By that comment, I find it hard to believe you ever served because I for one would never belittle another serviceman for his service. I will tell you what is obvious...you need a language tutor.
and all your insults have what to do with you knowing nothing about how the military works my liberal friend?:confused:
 

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Navy Pride said:
and all your insults have what to do with you knowing nothing about how the military works my liberal friend?:confused:
whatever, you know what...go jerk yourself to a bush picture and let me be. I am weary of your ignorance and your inability to read. When you do get a clue, come back and share it with the rest of us because I am not the only one who feels this way about you. You are a disgrace to the intelligent servicemen of the Navy.
 

Navy Pride

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jallman said:
whatever, you know what...go jerk yourself to a bush picture and let me be. I am weary of your ignorance and your inability to read. When you do get a clue, come back and share it with the rest of us because I am not the only one who feels this way about you. You are a disgrace to the intelligent servicemen of the Navy.

Aw shucks my liberal friend.......Why don't you tell us how you really feel.......I love you to..(Figuratively speaking) :roll:

Can we get back on the debate issue though.....thanks

I do have a suggestion for you...You could put me on ignore........
 

kal-el

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O man, you 2 are at it again. Can't we just get along guys?
 

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Don't y'all know the law.:roll:

If its a Republican Administration, then if you don't support the war or the President, then you are a commie who hates America, hates the troops, and you are giving comfort to the enemy.

If its a Democratic Administration, then if you don't support the war or the President, then you are a real American who truly supports the troops and God is on your side.

Unfortunately the law on this is written rather poorly because in the unlikely event we had a third party or independent President, then the law is rather unclear.
 
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