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Study reveals how Russia helped Trump

AncientGeek

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A report prepared for the Senate that provides the most sweeping analysis yet of Russia's disinformation campaign around the 2016 election found the operation used every major social media platform to deliver content tailored to voters' interests to help elect President Donald Trump — and worked even harder to support him while in office.

Report:Russia used every social media platform to back Trump - StarTribune.com
 

AliHajiSheik

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A report prepared for the Senate that provides the most sweeping analysis yet of Russia's disinformation campaign around the 2016 election found the operation used every major social media platform to deliver content tailored to voters' interests to help elect President Donald Trump — and worked even harder to support him while in office.

Report:Russia used every social media platform to back Trump - StarTribune.com

I would prefer the Russian not engage in Social media, but I'm still waiting to have identified the first person who changed their mind in the 2016 election based on any of these posts.
 

ttwtt78640

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I would prefer the Russian not engage in Social media, but I'm still waiting to have identified the first person who changed their mind in the 2016 election based on any of these posts.

But wasn't that part of 'what happened'?
 

AncientGeek

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Mach

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I would prefer the Russian not engage in Social media, but I'm still waiting to have identified the first person who changed their mind in the 2016 election based on any of these posts.

And here it is.
- Propaganda and marketing don't work!

coupled with a little bit of:

- It can only be "proven" if you demonstrate something that is essentially impossible on an individual mind-changed scale.

Keep trolling the nation, surely no harm can come from it.
 

AliHajiSheik

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And here it is.
- Propaganda and marketing don't work!

coupled with a little bit of:

- It can only be "proven" if you demonstrate something that is essentially impossible on an individual mind-changed scale.

Keep trolling the nation, surely no harm can come from it.

What a cute little narrative you've created for yourself, none of which I have said. Did all this nonsense reinforce people who had a candidate preference, very likely. Find any survey for those who saw the fake stories who actually changed their mind. I've never been able to find a story identifying anyone.
 

OrphanSlug

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I would prefer the Russian not engage in Social media, but I'm still waiting to have identified the first person who changed their mind in the 2016 election based on any of these posts.

And here it is.
- Propaganda and marketing don't work!

coupled with a little bit of:

- It can only be "proven" if you demonstrate something that is essentially impossible on an individual mind-changed scale.

Keep trolling the nation, surely no harm can come from it.

It is not trolling at all, it is a legitimate question we should be talking about.

The study tells us what the intention was and it is reasonable to talk about those concerns as well, Russia looking to ensure their candidate secured a win. We already know it was mutually beneficial to both Trump (and his team) as well as Russia to have Trump beat Hillary. Very few question that now.

The issue we need to discuss is still the same, if it worked or not Russia trying to change a vote using various Social Media campaigns. It speaks to all campaigns no matter who is doing it in terms of what is effective in convincing someone to vote for a candidate that previously they may not consider. But it may also point to a very slippery slope of how these platforms police user activity they might find suspect, Congress (as useless as they are) is already talking about this.

I am willing to say that I suspect Russia was successful in convincing someone to vote for Trump who would have perhaps stayed home otherwise. What I do not see is a Hillary / Democratic supporter flipping their vote. Independents perhaps, those that do not vote regularly perhaps, etc.

The other question is degree, something else we discuss every so often on how bad of a candidate Hillary was. All that baggage and all that could be used to sway a vote. In the grand scheme of things Russia's impact may be minor, but it is still work discussing. So is the likelihood that someone changed their mind after reading enough of what Russia was posting.

We may never know the complete answer, but it is not trolling to discuss it.
 

AliHajiSheik

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It is not trolling at all, it is a legitimate question we should be talking about.

The study tells us what the intention was and it is reasonable to talk about those concerns as well, Russia looking to ensure their candidate secured a win. We already know it was mutually beneficial to both Trump (and his team) as well as Russia to have Trump beat Hillary. Very few question that now.

The issue we need to discuss is still the same, if it worked or not Russia trying to change a vote using various Social Media campaigns. It speaks to all campaigns no matter who is doing it in terms of what is effective in convincing someone to vote for a candidate that previously they may not consider. But it may also point to a very slippery slope of how these platforms police user activity they might find suspect, Congress (as useless as they are) is already talking about this.

I am willing to say that I suspect Russia was successful in convincing someone to vote for Trump who would have perhaps stayed home otherwise. What I do not see is a Hillary / Democratic supporter flipping their vote. Independents perhaps, those that do not vote regularly perhaps, etc.

The other question is degree, something else we discuss every so often on how bad of a candidate Hillary was. All that baggage and all that could be used to sway a vote. In the grand scheme of things Russia's impact may be minor, but it is still work discussing. So is the likelihood that someone changed their mind after reading enough of what Russia was posting.

We may never know the complete answer, but it is not trolling to discuss it.

I don't think the poster was accusing me of trolling, just the Russians.

I'm in agreement that we should understand it, I think it is premature to draw conclusions.
 

Mach

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What a cute little narrative you've created for yourself, none of which I have said. Did all this nonsense reinforce people who had a candidate preference, very likely. Find any survey for those who saw the fake stories who actually changed their mind. I've never been able to find a story identifying anyone.

And you continue:
- Marketing, propaganda, etc., they only can "reinforce" and not change minds.

I suppose the billions upon billions of dollars spent on marketing and propaganda only serve to woo new buyers, never to pull someone from a competitor?

You seem to imply there is not a significant number of voters who hold off on judgement until nearing voting time...are their minds being changed, or shaped? Influenced?
And it goes both ways...their fake news that harms opposition, as well as fake news that helps their candidate.

I cannot understand how people can be this willfully misguided.

And that is entirely independent of the question of "What effect did Russian propaganda have on the 2016 election". Which is a decent question, but ultimately it's impossible to answer with certainty.
I mean, we have a scientific consensus on climate change, refused by 30-40% of the population.
What will the acceptance for a study that's purely based on modeling/statistics be that has no consensus and decades of study and published works to back it?

I would like to see it modeled, sure. But the idea that it would change the people's minds on this who need to be changed, is just not plausible. But if marketing works, maybe they will...
 
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chuckiechan

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It is not trolling at all, it is a legitimate question we should be talking about.

The study tells us what the intention was and it is reasonable to talk about those concerns as well, Russia looking to ensure their candidate secured a win. We already know it was mutually beneficial to both Trump (and his team) as well as Russia to have Trump beat Hillary. Very few question that now.

The issue we need to discuss is still the same, if it worked or not Russia trying to change a vote using various Social Media campaigns. It speaks to all campaigns no matter who is doing it in terms of what is effective in convincing someone to vote for a candidate that previously they may not consider. But it may also point to a very slippery slope of how these platforms police user activity they might find suspect, Congress (as useless as they are) is already talking about this.

I am willing to say that I suspect Russia was successful in convincing someone to vote for Trump who would have perhaps stayed home otherwise. What I do not see is a Hillary / Democratic supporter flipping their vote. Independents perhaps, those that do not vote regularly perhaps, etc.

The other question is degree, something else we discuss every so often on how bad of a candidate Hillary was. All that baggage and all that could be used to sway a vote. In the grand scheme of things Russia's impact may be minor, but it is still work discussing. So is the likelihood that someone changed their mind after reading enough of what Russia was posting.

We may never know the complete answer, but it is not trolling to discuss it.

I'll bet the local races inundated with democrat billionaire money changed more minds that Russia could ever have dreamed of. Russia is selling communism. No one is buying. Democrat billionaires are selling socialism under different names. The idea of removing the pressure of working to live appeals to way too many in America.

The Google exec noted in the congressional hearing that the Russians spent $7900 dollars in advertising in the 2016 presidential race. If anything China had a more direct effect by cancelling contracts in swing states with narrow Trump victories. Their hope obviously is get get back to "Politics as normal" with multinational-sympathetic presidents who will back off the pressure on China.
 

AliHajiSheik

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And you continue:
- Marketing, propaganda, etc., they only can "reinforce" and not change minds.

I suppose the billions upon billions of dollars spent on marketing and propaganda only serve to woo new buyers, never to pull someone from a competitor?

You seem to imply there is not a significant number of voters who hold off on judgement until nearing voting time...are their minds being changed, or shaped? Influenced?
And it goes both ways...their fake news that harms opposition, as well as fake news that helps their candidate.

I cannot understand how people can be this willfully misguided.

And that is entirely independent of the question of "What effect did Russian propaganda have on the 2016 election". Which is a decent question, but ultimately it's impossible to answer with certainty.
I mean, we have a scientific consensus on climate change, refused by 30-40% of the population.
What will the acceptance for a study that's purely based on modeling/statistics be that has no consensus and decades of study and published works to back it?

I would like to see it modeled, sure. But the idea that it would change the people's minds on this who need to be changed, is just not plausible. But if marketing works, maybe they will...

I'm not implying anything, I'm saying that I have no information to indicate that someone changed their mind due to this propaganda. Could some have decided not to vote or to decide to vote when they had not planned to, certainly. More likely I see people, especially on this site, who are too smart for this propaganda but are quick to point out that everyone else is too stupid to recognize it. I've challenged nothing in the original story, I just moved on to try to understand what wasn't there and the inevitable, "now what?"

I wish you would read what I actually wrote before responding. I'd rather not waste my time countering your misinterpretation of what I wrote about reinforcing candidate preferences.

I'm not interested in your "climate change" point, save that for the appropriate forum.
 

Conaeolos

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A report prepared for the Senate that provides the most sweeping analysis yet of Russia's disinformation campaign around the 2016 election found the operation used every major social media platform to deliver content tailored to voters' interests to help elect President Donald Trump — and worked even harder to support him while in office.

Report:Russia used every social media platform to back Trump - StarTribune.com
So let me get this strait, your only evidence is a report 100% funded by the "Open Society Foundations" (George Soros) with a project started in 2016. Using Graphika to makes analytical conclutions that would be near impossivle to determine by third-party methods?

:doh oh boy.

More than changed votes:
"Man opens fire in restaurant targeted by anti-Clinton "PizzaGate" fake news conspiracy"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police...t-pizza-victim-of-fake-sex-trafficking-story/
Pizza gate in the broadest terms is a belief there are pedophiles in powerful positions in the us.

One need only briefly follow the 'Epstein' case for 5 mins to see this is not that crazy of a conspiracy; especially with the weridness of the Podesta brothers, but, yes let go pretend like it could only come as a result of Russian propaganda.
 

trixare4kids

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Let's go back to something we learned earlier in the year, (May-2018).... There is NO evidence that the Russian trolls affected the outcome of the 2016 election so it would probably behoove the Trump haters to stop revising history.

WASHINGTON — There is no evidence that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election affected the actual vote count, according to the first installment of the Senate Intelligence Committee's Russia report, released Tuesday.

"The Committee has not seen any evidence that vote tallies were manipulated or that voter registration information was deleted or modified," the report said, confirming a January 2017 assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies.

However, the committee concluded that hackers affiliated with the Russian Government "conducted an unprecedented, coordinated cyber campaign against state election infrastructure."

"Russian actors scanned databases for vulnerabilities, attempted intrusions, and in a small number of cases successfully penetrated a voter registration database," the panel found. "This activity was part of a larger campaign to prepare to undermine confidence in the voting process."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...russians-changed-vote-tallies-2016/592978002/
 

trixare4kids

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I'm not implying anything, I'm saying that I have no information to indicate that someone changed their mind due to this propaganda. Could some have decided not to vote or to decide to vote when they had not planned to, certainly. More likely I see people, especially on this site, who are too smart for this propaganda but are quick to point out that everyone else is too stupid to recognize it. I've challenged nothing in the original story, I just moved on to try to understand what wasn't there and the inevitable, "now what?"

I wish you would read what I actually wrote before responding. I'd rather not waste my time countering your misinterpretation of what I wrote about reinforcing candidate preferences.

I'm not interested in your "climate change" point, save that for the appropriate forum.

And you would be correct about this too...
Senate report: No evidence that Russians changed vote tallies in 2016
 

DaveFagan

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I read about 30 pages of the first link and it could just as easily be describing the USA. It's a simple propaganda piece and the most distressing thought is that it probably represents the thought process of the legislors and certifies that they must clearly be dumbasses. It looked like a script line for Radio Free Europe. The SSCI draft is still attempting to build mountain out of a molehill. The money amounts behind the alleged Russian social media purchases tells the tale. If it's OK for Sheldon Adelson to donate $100 million or more to influence elections then it's OK by me if anybody spends 5 or 10 thousand dollars to do a little electioneering. The MIC needs an enemy to continue the flow of gov't monies into their coffers and Russia has become their choice. It's all about Big Money and Big Business and simplified is "War is good business, and business is good." One just needs to market war to keep the cash flowing. That is, if your business is war.
/
 

ataraxia

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Let's go back to something we learned earlier in the year, (May-2018).... There is NO evidence that the Russian trolls affected the outcome of the 2016 election so it would probably behoove the Trump haters to stop revising history.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...russians-changed-vote-tallies-2016/592978002/

You are confusing two things: the vote count and a propaganda campaign.

You are correct in that there is no evidence there was actually any tampering of the Russians with the vote count. There is no evidence of hacking the voting machines. But the propaganda campaign? How would anyone know how much their propaganda effected how people voted? How do you measure something like that? Advertisers will always tell you it's hard to quantify how much their campaign effects final sales. But they do it anyway, because they know it works.

The Russians basically put their finger on the cracks and fault lines in American society and pushed as hard as they could until they could hear a snap, pushing the deep, latent, viscleral racism, religious differences, xenophobia, misogyny, class differences, rural/urban divide, mistrust of government, etc, etc... They are obviously very good students of American culture and society. You know the old dictum, "know thy enemy". They obviously have taken that to heart. They have, after all, a very sophisticated and experienced ex-KGB chief as president.

That they have Americans trying to cover for them now is even more evidence of their incredible success.

And remember, the US has not been their only targets. They have targeted elections in a similar way everywhere from the Baltics and Eastern Europe to France and Germany. Their goal? Sowing chaos and disunity, and therefore weakness, in the west. If you can't join them, beat them, seems to be their working motto now.

Examples of known Russian ads during 2016 campaign:

russianads.jpg
 
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ataraxia

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I'll bet the local races inundated with democrat billionaire money changed more minds that Russia could ever have dreamed of. Russia is selling communism.

Russia is not a communist country today. They are not interested in pushing communism. Where do you get this stuff?
 
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