Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion[W:174]

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

The Trump administration has vowed to block any such state-level efforts.

Which is why making regulating medical care insurance into a (new?) federal power was a terrible idea.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

one state can't negotiate prices down like national single payer can, and a public option is a half measure compromise, though i supported that as a last ditch in 2010. nope, next time, we need to go all the way, IMO.

Using Medicaid as a public option starts out with many millions of 'customers' and could be done on a state by state basis. As the public option pool grows so does its negotiating power.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Using Medicaid as a public option starts out with many millions of 'customers' and could be done on a state by state basis. As the public option pool grows so does its negotiating power.

many red states won't play ball or will actively work to undercut the program. nope. i support doing it federally.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

many red states won't play ball or will actively work to undercut the program. nope. i support doing it federally.

Nope, the real reason is that it costs a bundle and would make the "free" medical insurance for the poor state into a magnet for free loaders. Move to state X and get your medical care paid for by "the rich".

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Nope, the real reason is that it costs a bundle and would make the "free" medical insurance for the poor state into a magnet for free loaders. Move to state X and get your medical care paid for by "the rich".

without the negotiating power of single payer for the whole country, it won't work. they're going to have to set the goalposts better next time.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

without the negotiating power of single payer for the whole country, it won't work. they're going to have to set the goalposts better next time.

Hmm... I guess that is what is keeping our national defense costs so low.

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

without the negotiating power of single payer for the whole country, it won't work. they're going to have to set the goalposts better next time.

Medicaid has no negotiating power by law. So, as I said, you have many decades of groundwork to lay before single payer is a viable option in this country.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Hmm... I guess that is what is keeping our national defense costs so low.

that can be addressed as well, but it's a different thread.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Medicaid has no negotiating power by law. So, as I said, you have many decades of groundwork to lay before single payer is a viable option in this country.

my own midrange estimate is thirty years or so. i'm hoping that a backlash might speed it up a bit, though. otherwise, the system could collapse under its own weight, and that would suck.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

that can be addressed as well, but it's a different thread.

It is exactly the same management team - the federal government. Too many see how the single payer VA system was run to fool them into supporting anything other than offering a public option. The 'we have to do it 100% to see how it works' idea is not going to cut it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Medicaid has no negotiating power by law.

Like Medicare, Medicaid programs tend to just set their own prices. Which is presumably what a single-payer entity would do.

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

my own midrange estimate is thirty years or so. i'm hoping that a backlash might speed it up a bit, though. otherwise, the system could collapse under its own weight, and that would suck.

Well, that risk never goes away. Even much vaunted systems like the NHS are a never ending struggle to keep from going tits up.

 

[Surrealistik]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Well, that risk never goes away. Even much vaunted systems like the NHS are a never ending struggle to keep from going tits up.

Not at all.

The main issues the NHS is experiencing are due to austerity and privatization imposed upon it by the Cons due to their traditional political enmity towards the system (which are on their way out for this among other reasons).

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Like Medicare, Medicaid programs tend to just set their own prices. Which is presumably what a single-payer entity would do.

Presumably, but what happens is that healthcare providers tell Medicare and Medicaid patients to pound sand. People in this country have this strange notion that they can have less expensive healthcare coverage without directly addressing the cost of what is being covered. As though a for-profit system is just going to roll over and accept peanuts.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Like Medicare, Medicaid programs tend to just set their own prices. Which is presumably what a single-payer entity would do.

Let's start with single payer SNAP - why let folks pay full retail (plus a ridiculous profit) at a QuickieMart when the same food product can be had for 1/2 that price at a large grocery store? Who pays is not the issue - it is who sets the 'fair' price. Then again, having a federal coupon for a $10 medical lab test does not mean that any medical lab will honor that coupon.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

It is exactly the same management team - the federal government. Too many see how the single payer VA system was run to fool them into supporting anything other than offering a public option. The 'we have to do it 100% to see how it works' idea is not going to cut it.

single payer works in other first world countries. it will work here, too.

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Not at all.

The main issues the NHS is experiencing are due to austerity and privatization imposed upon it by the Cons due to their traditional political enmity towards the system (which are on their way out for this among other reasons).

The true story is that NHS is severely underfunded but no party wants to take the bullet in making the necessary tax hikes.

 

[Surrealistik]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

The true story is that NHS is severely underfunded but no party wants to take the bullet in making the necessary tax hikes.

Except the Labour party under Corbyn plans to do exactly that.

Further, the underfunding specifically arose under the Tories/Conservatives.

 

[Greenbeard]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Presumably, but what happens is that healthcare providers tell Medicare and Medicaid patients to pound sand. People in this country have this strange notion that they can have less expensive healthcare coverage without directly addressing the cost of what is being covered. As though a for-profit system is just going to roll over and accept peanuts.

I don't disagree, which is why I don't think in practice a single-payer would pay much lower prices in the aggregate than we pay today.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

single payer works in other first world countries. it will work here, too.

Reasonable defense spending works in other first world countries. It will work here, too.

Our congress critters (at the behest of their 'special interest' campaign cash providers) and massive executive bureaucracy are not like those running other first world countries.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Well, that risk never goes away. Even much vaunted systems like the NHS are a never ending struggle to keep from going tits up.

have to stay on top of it. the NHS is a bit different than Medicare or Medicaid for all, but still.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Reasonable defense spending works in other first world countries. It will work here, too.

Our congress critters (at the behest of their 'special interest' campaign cash providers) and massive executive bureaucracy are not like those running other first world countries.

i'm for more reasonable spending on defense, as well.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

i'm for more reasonable spending on defense, as well.

Me too, but until we have reasonable spending on what we already have given these 'representatives of the people' power over then let's not add more for them to abuse for political (personal?) gain.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

I don't disagree, which is why I don't think in practice a single-payer would pay much lower prices in the aggregate than we pay today.

Yet that is the primary 'selling point' for taking the plunge into complete federal government control of medical care. The basic idea seems to be that medical care costs should be X% of income amounts over $Y meaning that those that have 'too much' must pay for the medical care of those that have 'too little'. Why this (socialist scheme?) is not necessary for other 'life necessities' like food, clothing and shelter (including utilities) is never explained.

 

[Helix]

Re: Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

Me too, but until we have reasonable spending on what we already have given these 'representatives of the people' power over then let's not add more for them to abuse for political (personal?) gain.

i don't see a good reason that trying what countries who pay much less than we do for similar care isn't at least worth a shot.