Study : How abortion really affects women.

[Dr. Chuckles]

The study wasn't limited to woman who were turned away. They made a very small portion of the sample

it was composed of three groups. The group of people they used to form the measurments of unwanted child birth were derived from individuals who were turned away at the clinics

See:

Most of the women in the study secured the abortion they sought (and 97 percent did not regret it

82 of them were turned away because their pregnancies had advanced past the gestational limit in their state. Ninety percent of those women carried the pregnancy to term and began raising the kid—a pro-lifer’s dream.

And you have not identified any problem with how it was conducted (other than mischaracterize how it was conducted)

unless you count culling your sample group based on who exhibits irresponsible behavior good scientific practice.

 

[minnie616]

Here are some links to some of info from the Turn Away Study:

Overview:
Denial of abortion due to advanced gestational age in the United States

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper264091.html

Mental and Physical Health

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper263888.html

Socioeconomic consequences of abortion compared to unwanted birth

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper263858.html

Drug use:

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper259504.html

Partner violence:

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper263991.html

Faith and Abortion Stigma: Findings from the Abortion Stigma Scale :

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper269381.html

 

[minnie616]

Now I'm not much of an expert, but the website, slate.com seems like its rubbish. So the whole study may very well be rubbish too. I wouldn't take it seriously.

Now. Common sense has this nasty way of making sense actually and it stands to reason that if a woman isn't ready to have a child (isn't married, isn't secure financially, etc) she will have it an even harder time raising a child which = more expenses. So of course women who are denied abortions, if they want to abort, will be worse off most of the time.

The Studies are a part of American Public Health Association and they take the study seriously.

 

[Rainman05]

The Studies are a part of American Public Health Association and they take the study seriously.

And if they are so meaningful, couldn't you find a more qualified news outlet to report on it. You picked a no-name outlet. slate.com

Please. It's all rubbish. It doesn't mean that they aren't right in the principle, but take everything with a mountain of salt.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

From the first link:

In a multivariable model, there were no significant sociodemographic differences between abortion controls and Turnaways, except that Turnaways were more likely to be aged 19 or younger.

That tends to support my earlier concern

Second link:

One week after receiving or being denied an abortion, women denied an abortion had significantly higher anxiety than women who received the abortion. At one year there were no differences in anxiety or depression. However, women who gave birth were more likely to report feeling that they have more to do than they can get done.

This is also a no brainer. In fact, the only type of mother I ever met who would say "they have adequate free time" are those that can hire a nanny and think child care consists of shopping for new booties

third link

At the time of seeking an abortion, there were no differences in financial wellbeing between the women receiving and being denied abortions: 45% received public assistance, two thirds had household incomes below the federal poverty level (FPL) and the average household size was 3.7. One year later, 86% of women denied an abortion were living with the baby; 11% had placed the baby for adoption. Women denied abortion were more likely to be receiving public assistance (76% vs. 44%) and have household income below the FPL (67% vs. 56%) than women who received an abortion.

One should consider that having a child also makes it easier to receive assistance.

 

[minnie616]

Why Is this study Important?

Why is the study important?

Because of the ideological controversies over abortion, and the difficulties of study design, there is little quality research on the physical and social consequences of unintended pregnancy for women. To date, most of the research has focused on whether elective abortion causes mental health problems such as depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. Even objective researchers who used rigorous scientific methods to examine the effect of unintended pregnancy on women’s lives have been limited in their ability to come to strong, far-reaching conclusions due to challenges in carrying out research in this area and a lack of studies designed to answer the question.

Much of the existing work uses inappropriate comparisons groups—comparing, for example, women who obtain abortions with those who continue their pregnancies to term by choice.
Such comparisons are inherently biased and paint a distorted picture of life following an elective abortion or pregnancy continuation.

In addition, the retrospective design of many of these studies depends on women’s reporting of unintended pregnancies and abortions in hindsight.
Abortions are notoriously underreported, and the level of underreporting varies by characteristics associated with health and well-being. To understand the impact of abortion and unintended childbearing on women’s lives, well-designed prospective research that uses appropriate comparison groups is needed. The Turnaway Study is designed to address this need.

ANSIRH: Research and other work—The Turnaway Study

 

[minnie616]

And if they are so meaningful, couldn't you find a more qualified news outlet to report on it. You picked a no-name outlet. slate.com

Please. It's all rubbish. It doesn't mean that they aren't right in the principle, but take everything with a mountain of salt.

Slate happens to be the article I saw.

Here are a few more:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...o-had-abortions-less-likely-to-suffer-poverty

http://io9.com/5958187/what-happens...his-is-the-first-scientific-study-to-find-out

http://www.ansirh.org/news/new_ANSIRH.php#mhpshow

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/abortion-poverty-study_n_2130890.html

 

[Rainman05]

Slate happens to be the article I saw.

Here are a few more:

I see you posted the links to the direct source studies. That's better. those are something that people can talk on and hopefully convince themselves if they think otherwise.

 

[sangha]

it was composed of three groups. The group of people they used to form the measurments of unwanted child birth were derived from individuals who were turned away at the clinics

See:

So you think a proper study would have reported on the effects giving birth had on women who had abortions? :screwy

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

So you think a proper study would have reported on the effects giving birth had on women who had abortions? :screwy

I don't think you understand my criticism: my point is how they collected individuals to study. For the effects of an unwanted pregnancy they selected those exhibiting poor planning and responsibility (the ones who sought an abortion too late). Naturally, when choosing a group based on such criteria, it's likely, that group, as an aggregate, will show further signs of poor planning and irresponsibility

It's a simple and direct point

 

[sangha]

I don't think you understand my criticism: my point is how they collected individuals to study. They selected those exhibiting poor planning and responsibility. Naturally, when choosing a group based on such criteria, it's likely, that group, as an aggregate, will show further signs of poor planning and irresponsibility

It's a simple and direct point

Yes, it was irresponsible to choose women who wanted to have abortions in order to study what happened to women who wanted to have abortions :screwy

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Yes, it was irresponsible to choose women who wanted to have abortions in order to study what happened to women who wanted to have abortions :screwy

that doesn't even make sense as a reply to what I just wrote.

 

[sangha]

that doesn't even make sense as a reply to what I just wrote.

I'm not surprised that you don't see the sense since you don't understand why a study on how abortion affects women sampled women who wanted an abortion

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I'm not surprised that you don't see the sense since you don't understand why a study on how abortion affects women sampled women who wanted an abortion

No, I fully understand the constraints and difficulty involved in designing the study. But that doesn't make their chosen method above criticism. Second, you still don't seem to understand the very simple premise for my criticism. In fact, in your above comment, you don't even seem able to even correctly identify where the irresponsible behavior was indicated (confusing the researchers for the "turnaway" group).

Hence, your reply didn';t make any sense

 

[sangha]

No, I fully understand the constraints and difficulty involved in designing the study. But that doesn't make their chosen method above criticism. Second, you still don't seem to understand the very simple premise for my criticism. In fact, in your above comment, you don't even seem able to even correctly identify where the irresponsible behavior was indicated (confusing the researchers for the "turnaway" group).

Hence, your reply didn';t make any sense

Their method in studying the effects of abortion was to select women who sought abortions.

Your claim that they selected women who "exhibited poor planning and responsibility" is nothing more than a lie.

 

[minnie616]

I don't think you understand my criticism: my point is how they collected individuals to study...

Well it helps to put the study back into context:
From the studyoverview:

Women were recruited from 30 abortion clinics across the US,
where no clinic within 150 miles performs procedures at a later gestation.
We describe the incidence of women being turned away and compare characteristics of women who present just under the clinic's gestational age limit (n=452 abortion controls) with those of women who present just after and who were denied an abortion (n=231 Turnaways).

The clinics in our study had gestational limits from 10 to 26 weeks.
Each year the abortion providers in our study turn away about 1% of patients because they presented for care just beyond (<3 weeks) the gestational limit;[/B] the total proportion of women turned away is likely greater. Among the Turnaways in the sample 43.5% called and 34.5% visited at least one other clinic and on average they travelled 42 miles to get to this clinic.
In a multivariable model, there were no significant sociodemographic differences between abortion controls and Turnaways, except that Turnaways were more likely to be aged 19 or younger.
Regulations which impose gestational limits or facility requirements for later abortions will increase the number of turnaways and disproportionately affect young women.

https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper264091.html

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Your claim that they selected women who "exhibited poor planning and responsibility" is nothing more than a lie.

No, it's clearly outlined by the researchers. They used the "turnaways" to collect their data on unwanted pregnancies.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Well it helps to put the study back into context:
From the studyoverview:


https://apha.confex.com/apha/140am/webprogram/Paper264091.html

how does that address my concerns? You have a habit of just posting what seems random material to specific points

 

[minnie616]

how does that address my concerns? You have a habit of just posting what seems random material to specific points

It explains why of women who were turned away were disproportionately younger.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It explains why of women who were turned away were disproportionately younger.

Regulations which impose gestational limits or facility requirements for later abortions will increase the number of turnaways and disproportionately affect young women.

This doesn't explain why younger individuals would be more greatly impacted

 

[sangha]

No, it's clearly outlined by the researchers. They used the "turnaways" to collect their data on unwanted pregnancies.

That is a lie

They sampled women who wanted abortions to collect data on unwanted pregnancies

Minnie even posted the quote.

 

[minnie616]

This doesn't explain why younger individuals would be more greatly impacted

Because there was not another abortion clinic that would take them at their point in gestation within 150 miles. women in their 20 s or older could travel the distance to another clinic easier than those 19 or younger.

 

[Removable Mind]

For every example of someone who says they don't regret their abortion, you can find 2 or 3 who say they do. This is a biased study.

Post your study...we'd all like to see it and evaluate its findings.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

That is a lie

They sampled women who wanted abortions to collect data on unwanted pregnancies

Minnie even posted the quote.

lol, it's literally the design of the study: to look at turn aways, as compared to people who sought successfully to get abortions

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Because there was not another abortion clinic that would take them at their point in gestation within 150 miles. women in their 20 s or older could travel the distance to another clinic easier than those 19 or younger.

See, the above is an explanation. What you posted did not contain the above. Now, would you say it would be inherently more difficult for someone 19 and younger to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, compared to someone 26. Second, besides the obvious lack of resources indicated by their difficulty to make a longer trip, do you thinker younger people tend to be more irresponsibly than people who manage to stave off pregnancy for an addition few years?

As I pointed out originally, these underlying factors are going to effect the final outcome of any research.