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Study from two top academic institutions back need to fix, asnd use background check system

Bullseye

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This backs up what many of us have been saying for quite a while

The Violence Prevention Research Program (VPRP) at UC Davis and the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health conducted a study about the impact California's gun control laws have had on homicide and suicide rates over the last 10 years. And guess what? Researchers found that the Golden State's gun control laws had absolutely no impact. And, even more surprising, the study's lead researcher found that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is severely flawed.


The rated, respected academics say exactly what many of us have been saying: We need to strengthen and fix the NICS by making sure the data it uses is as accurate and complete as possible. Notice the emphasis on the failure to ensure prohibited persons get reported to the system.

Gun rights advocates have long said there is an issue with NICS. If we, as gun owners, have to submit to a background check then the system needs to be whole. Having a system with a quarter of the convictions is useless. Why even have the background check system to begin with?


That's why both the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) have long advocated for Fix NICS, which would require agencies to submit 100 percent of their convictions every six months.
 

TurtleDude

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This backs up what many of us have been saying for quite a while




The rated, respected academics say exactly what many of us have been saying: We need to strengthen and fix the NICS by making sure the data it uses is as accurate and complete as possible. Notice the emphasis on the failure to ensure prohibited persons get reported to the system.

as long as the Justice Department doesn't bother to prosecute those who commit perjury on the Form 4473, (meaning those denied at a dealer are free to find other sources of guns since they aren't incarcerated) the entire process is pretty much nothing more than pissing up a rope
 

notquiteright

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as long as the Justice Department doesn't bother to prosecute those who commit perjury on the Form 4473, (meaning those denied at a dealer are free to find other sources of guns since they aren't incarcerated) the entire process is pretty much nothing more than pissing up a rope

This is a familiar lament, of course rather baseless as many states have laws against that and the 'gun' rubbers have no clue what follow up is done at the state level. (odd don't you think that this current DOJ can find manpower and resources to go after child border crossers but not criminals :( )

But true rope pissing is being done at the FFL level. When an FFL can go a decade without an inspection, can't be re-inspected without a subpoena, takes years to prosecute, and the average penalty is a fine, name change and a different family member now runs the shop.... :doh

Course what seems criminal to me are the many firearm owners who don't properly secure their firearms and the stolen weapons are used in crimes. Oh and let's not forget the children killed when one of them finds the pistol in the nightstand, headboard, under the pillow...

Yeah a whole lot of rope pissing being done... :peace
 

TurtleDude

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This is a familiar lament, of course rather baseless as many states have laws against that and the 'gun' rubbers have no clue what follow up is done at the state level. (odd don't you think that this current DOJ can find manpower and resources to go after child border crossers but not criminals :( )

But true rope pissing is being done at the FFL level. When an FFL can go a decade without an inspection, can't be re-inspected without a subpoena, takes years to prosecute, and the average penalty is a fine, name change and a different family member now runs the shop.... :doh

Course what seems criminal to me are the many firearm owners who don't properly secure their firearms and the stolen weapons are used in crimes. Oh and let's not forget the children killed when one of them finds the pistol in the nightstand, headboard, under the pillow...

Yeah a whole lot of rope pissing being done... :peace

sounds like another case of you feeling a need to try to contradict or respond to what I said and while you wrote a bunch of words, none of them are contradictory-let alone responsive-to my point
 

Bullseye

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as long as the Justice Department doesn't bother to prosecute those who commit perjury on the Form 4473, (meaning those denied at a dealer are free to find other sources of guns since they aren't incarcerated) the entire process is pretty much nothing more than pissing up a rope

I found the fact that only about 25% of qualifying offenses got put into the system disturbing. Think of the Dr just shot by her estranged boy friend who had a restraining order against him; why was he still in possession of a gun?
 
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TurtleDude

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I found the fact that only about 25% of qualifying offenses got put into the system disturbing. Think of the Dr just shot by her estranged boy friend who had a restraining order against him; why was he still in possession of a gun?

passing laws designed to harass gun owners seems to be more important to some than actually enforcing laws that only harm real criminals
 

notquiteright

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sounds like another case of you feeling a need to try to contradict or respond to what I said and while you wrote a bunch of words, none of them are contradictory-let alone responsive-to my point

Sounds like you do the usual TD duck and dodge with a runny excretion of rambling rhetoric.

You have ZERO idea if the rejections are in fact felons or simple mistakes, you have ZERO idea if the state courts go after felons for outstanding warrants/parole violations if nothing else, and the biggest travesty to keeping FFL firearms out of felons hands is completely ignored. FFL holders have little to fear from the ATF, they MAY be inspected once a decade, can't be re-inspected without a court order, seldom face more than a modest fine after years of court while still operating, just change their name and drive on... :roll:

But it is interesting the current DOJ can go after immigrant children as a threat to national security but not the felons applying for firearms- almost seems like someone doesn't want the feds investigating firearm sales- imagine that.... :peace
 

notquiteright

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passing laws designed to harass gun owners seems to be more important to some than actually enforcing laws that only harm real criminals

To be fair you think 90% of firearm laws 'harass' firearm owners. But you don't see actually enforcing laws to keep FFLs from violating federal law as very important... :peace
 

apdst

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This is a familiar lament, of course rather baseless as many states have laws against that and the 'gun' rubbers have no clue what follow up is done at the state level. (odd don't you think that this current DOJ can find manpower and resources to go after child border crossers but not criminals :( )

But true rope pissing is being done at the FFL level. When an FFL can go a decade without an inspection, can't be re-inspected without a subpoena, takes years to prosecute, and the average penalty is a fine, name change and a different family member now runs the shop.... :doh

Course what seems criminal to me are the many firearm owners who don't properly secure their firearms and the stolen weapons are used in crimes. Oh and let's not forget the children killed when one of them finds the pistol in the nightstand, headboard, under the pillow...

Yeah a whole lot of rope pissing being done... :peace

Most of those criminals didn't commit Federal crimes. Therefore, the DOJ doesn't have authority to go after them.

FFL's get renewed every few years. There's no way an FFL goes ten years without a background check.
 

TurtleDude

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To be fair you think 90% of firearm laws 'harass' firearm owners. But you don't see actually enforcing laws to keep FFLs from violating federal law as very important... :peace

find a statement supporting that drivel
 

TurtleDude

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Sounds like you do the usual TD duck and dodge with a runny excretion of rambling rhetoric.

You have ZERO idea if the rejections are in fact felons or simple mistakes, you have ZERO idea if the state courts go after felons for outstanding warrants/parole violations if nothing else, and the biggest travesty to keeping FFL firearms out of felons hands is completely ignored. FFL holders have little to fear from the ATF, they MAY be inspected once a decade, can't be re-inspected without a court order, seldom face more than a modest fine after years of court while still operating, just change their name and drive on... :roll:

But it is interesting the current DOJ can go after immigrant children as a threat to national security but not the felons applying for firearms- almost seems like someone doesn't want the feds investigating firearm sales- imagine that.... :peace

Lets see-I worked for the DOJ for 24 years and you never did and you claim you know what I don't know.

that's hilarious
 

Rich2018

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The rated, respected academics say exactly what many of us have been saying: We need to strengthen and fix the NICS by making sure the data it uses is as accurate and complete as possible. Notice the emphasis on the failure to ensure prohibited persons get reported to the system.


Gun control is like a boat...the 2nd amendment is like a big hole in it


Half measure gun laws are like people bailing water.



Gun control will never float until the hole is plugged.
 

TurtleDude

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Gun control is like a boat...the 2nd amendment is like a big hole in it


Half measure gun laws are like people bailing water.



Gun control will never float until the hole is plugged.

did you read the article I quoted last night


To pull off confiscation now you’d have to be willing to kill millions of people. The congressman’s suggestion was incredibly stupid, but it was nice to see one of you guys being honest about it for once. In order to maybe, hypothetically save thousands, you’d be willing to slaughter millions. Either you really suck at math, or the ugly truth is that you just hate the other side so much that you think killing millions of people is worth it to make them fall in line. And if that’s the case, you’re a sick bastard, and a great example of why the rest of us aren’t ever going to give up our guns.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2018...ete-says-congressman-who-wants-to-nuke-omaha/
 

lwf

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Gun control is like a boat...the 2nd amendment is like a big hole in it


Half measure gun laws are like people bailing water.



Gun control will never float until the hole is plugged.

Maybe the boat should be abandoned, then? We did it with alcohol. Tens of thousands killed every year in alcohol related deaths. (More than gun related deaths.) Are you for bringing back prohibition?
 

Maidenrules29

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To be fair you think 90% of firearm laws 'harass' firearm owners. But you don't see actually enforcing laws to keep FFLs from violating federal law as very important... :peace

How many FFL’s do you really think are willing to violate the law and thus lose the federal license that they worked so hard to get and maintain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I have no problem with having a UBC system, as long as it is kept affordable, under $5. My biggest opposition is anti rights localities will put in place a high fee to access the system as a way to prohibit many citizens from exercising their rights.
 

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Originally Posted by notquiteright
Course what seems criminal to me are the many firearm owners who don't properly secure their firearms and the stolen weapons are used in crimes. Oh and let's not forget the children killed when one of them finds the pistol in the nightstand, headboard, under the pillow...
https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article222713420.html
Or out of the unlocked cop car. And it's not an isolated incident.
https://www.thetrace.org/2018/11/lost-and-stolen-police-guns/
 

zsu2357

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=Maidenrules29;1069405553]How many FFL’s do you really think are willing to violate the law and thus lose the federal license that they worked so hard to get and maintain?
That's the problem,he and his type don't think or have any self dialog they just say the first thing that they think of. Your right about the FLL's not wanting to violate laws and put their lively hoods on the line(assuming that FFL isn't a sideline) and time and money. I can't recall any FFL holder with a legally owned sub machine holding up a 7-11 or bank for that matter. You?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 

TurtleDude

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I have no problem with having a UBC system, as long as it is kept affordable, under $5. My biggest opposition is anti rights localities will put in place a high fee to access the system as a way to prohibit many citizens from exercising their rights.

that's why you don't open that door in the first place
 

TurtleDude

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We disagree on what is and isn't acceptable forms of gun control

making someone pay a dealer to do a background check so that someone can lend a relative a shotgun for hunting on his farm is not acceptable. Its stupid harassment
 

Rucker61

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making someone pay a dealer to do a background check so that someone can lend a relative a shotgun for hunting on his farm is not acceptable. Its stupid harassment

In Colorado you can loan a gun to someone "while hunting" without a background check. If they have a license to hunt everywhere they possess the gun, and since you can't get a license to hunt in your neighborhood, nor does it allow hunting within fifty feet of the centerline of a road, it means that by the letter of the law that you either need to travel to the actual Game Management Unit and hand it to them every morning, or you can pay the $40 or so for the background check. And then pass one to get your own gun back.

Also, you can loan or give a gun to a close family member without a background check, but if you sell it to them, they need a background check.

Nah, these laws make great "common sense".
 

TurtleDude

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In Colorado you can loan a gun to someone "while hunting" without a background check. If they have a license to hunt everywhere they possess the gun, and since you can't get a license to hunt in your neighborhood, nor does it allow hunting within fifty feet of the centerline of a road, it means that by the letter of the law that you either need to travel to the actual Game Management Unit and hand it to them every morning, or you can pay the $40 or so for the background check. And then pass one to get your own gun back.

Also, you can loan or give a gun to a close family member without a background check, but if you sell it to them, they need a background check.

Nah, these laws make great "common sense".

of course criminals will comply with this law. The main purposes of these moronic laws are as follows

1) to pander to the stupid and the ignorant that the politicians who pass this crap are DOING SOMETHING

2) to harass honest citizens with the hope a few are caught not complying so they can be stripped of their firearms rights and the pimps in office can claim that they "stopped a potential gun crime"

3) and most importantly-create a "reason" for complete firearms registration when this stupid UBGC doesn't decrease crime
 

notquiteright

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How many FFL’s do you really think are willing to violate the law and thus lose the federal license that they worked so hard to get and maintain?

How little you know about which you type... :roll:

Any FFL has a chance of being inspected once every 10 years. No matter the issues with this inspection the ATF can't come back without a detailed court order- which can take years to obtain, the business can continue to sell firearms without further inspections.... if after years of 'due process' the owner is found guilty the punishment is often a small fine another family member takes over with a tiny name change and no jail time.

However a quick Google will show how some FFLs have been amazingly ahhhh 'sloppy' with sales records but did no jailtime (even after strawman purchases have been traced back to them) a small fine, the owner still works at the shop and business as usual...

But the direct answer is no one knows how many are because the ATF is so hamstrung in auditing FFLs.... out of 134,738 FFLs only 11,009 were inspected. How many years would it take to inspect every FFL.... :peace
 
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