Strong leaders missing within the Dem party

[Along Came Jones]

Trump, who is currently president, regularly shits on urban and Democratic voters all the time.

Yes, indeed, he does. How many urban and Democratic voters do you suppose it persuades to switch sides?

 

[Puigb]

Yes, indeed, he does. How many urban and Democratic voters do you suppose it persuades to switch sides?

It's delusion to think any MAGA voter is switching sides. What the Democrats need to do is turn out their base, and maximize support with independents.

 

[CLAX1911]

So I think the Democrats are out of touch and one of the things they've done recently to prove how out of touch they are is in order to talk to young men they find an obese abortion advocate woman. And one would assume that they actually think this will work.

 

[Jay59]

It's delusion to think any MAGA voter is switching sides.

Trump won't be running.

What the Democrats need to do is turn out their base, and maximize support with independents.

MAGA is what used to be the Democrats' base.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2025/06/02/cnns_enten_democrats_are_no_longer_the_party_of_the_middle_class_trump_and_the_republicans_have_taken_that_mantle_away.html

 

[CLAX1911]

Trump won't be running.


MAGA is what used to be the Democrats' base.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2025/06/02/cnns_enten_democrats_are_no_longer_the_party_of_the_middle_class_trump_and_the_republicans_have_taken_that_mantle_away.html

Yeah it seems Donald Trump is actually moderate and took a huge bite out of the Democrat party and instead of the Democrat party moving moderated moves to the fringe. Is there actually toying with the idea of running AOC and Bernie Sanders as President and vice President.

 

[Perotista]

So basically, if Trump's approvals remain low, and the GOP continues to be the low proposenity voter party in non presidential elections...they are screwed? I agree.

Outside of the WH, the GOP didn't really do all that great in 2024. They lost almost all the swing state senate seats, they lost two house seats....basicaslly the election was a draw besides the Trump victory.

Yeah. Considering Biden’s overall job approval of 39% one would have expected a GOP landslide more akin to 1980 which Carter and Biden had almost identical numbers. That didn’t happen. Sure, Trump won, but he basically squeaked by. A draw is a good way to put it. By nominating Trump, the GOP denied themselves of a landslide victory. Harris coming as close as she did speak volumes more about Trump than Harris or the democrats.

This is the list of sitting presidents who had an overall job approval of below 50% and the results.

1952 Truman 33%, his replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower

1968 LBJ 43%, his replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon

1976 Ford 45%, Ford lost reelection to Carter

1980 Carter 37%, Carter lost reelection to Reagan

1992 G.H.W. Bush 34%, Bush lost reelection to Bill Clinton

2008 G.W. Bush 28%, his replacement McCain lost to Obama

2020 Trump 43%, Trump lost reelection to Biden

2024 Biden 39%, his replacement Harris lost to Trump.

 

[Jay59]

Yeah it seems Donald Trump is actually moderate and took a huge bite out of the Democrat party and instead of the Democrat party moving moderated moves to the fringe. Is there actually toying with the idea of running AOC and Bernie Sanders as President and vice President.

Don't tell them that. They are convinced Trump is an extremist.

They cannot separate the person from the policy.

 

[Cope]

I'm not surprised there's more negative sentiment towards Democrats given the shifts in the bases of both parties, where the GOP has now gained ground in the working/middle class voters. What is evident is both parties have taken a hit in terms of how the general voters think of each, and there's not better number to demonstrate that than the growth in independent voters over the past few years.

Boy is that ever true. Soon there may be enough of us to garner national attention with our own viable candidate (that's the dream anyway)

Personally, I do think the Democrats currently have a leadership problem in that there really isn't a standard bearer for them after the loss of the 2024 election. Whether or not the party is taking a more "wait and see" approach doesn't change the fact they need to sort out the next wave of leadership and have them be more prominent in communicating what their vision is going forward.

 

[Cope]

It's delusion to think any MAGA voter is switching sides. What the Democrats need to do is turn out their base, and maximize support with independents.

And to do that would require?

A ditching of far left policy, and when they do that?

 

[CLAX1911]

Don't tell them that. They are convinced Trump is an extremist.

They cannot separate the person from the policy.

Well in reality the policy is pretty moderate they can't separate the policy from the rhetoric. They don't like Trump because he called out the media for the liars and scammers that they are.

 

[Along Came Jones]

It's delusion to think any MAGA voter is switching sides. What the Democrats need to do is turn out their base, and maximize support with independents.

Not delusional at all. Only the extreme True Believers at both ends of the political spectrum are unpersuadable.

 

[CLAX1911]

Not delusional at all. Only the extreme True Believers at both ends of the political spectrum are unpersuadable.

I need the problem is in order to be persuasive you have to understand the other person you're trying to persuade. I think this is the Crux of the problem.

 

[Along Came Jones]

I need the problem is in order to be persuasive you have to understand the other person you're trying to persuade. I think this is the Crux of the problem.

Yes, sir, I think that's correct.

Of all people, Obama probably expressed it best, something like, "we don’t need to embrace a false choice between appealing to minority voters or white working-class voters. A candidate who prioritizes and effectively speaks to the issues that most voters truly care about can do both."

I think that is good advice for any candidate from any political party.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes, sir, I think that's correct.

Of all people, Obama probably expressed it best, something like, "we don’t need to embrace a false choice between appealing to minority voters or white working-class voters. A candidate who prioritizes and effectively speaks to the issues that most voters truly care about can do both."

I think that is good advice for any candidate from any political party.

Obama was quite the orator.

 

[gbg3]

Democrats refuse to change anything. Their sole thought is that if voters look at the other side, then surely they will return to the party who they abandoned before and democrats are arrogantly telling them that if they want back, don't expect anything to be changed.

It really does seem like they are holding firm to virtually all their previous policy platforms and to their technique of telling voters those are the things they should support and care about.

I have to agree, so far, they aren't changing a thing. Not a single policy and not a single tactic. I'm amazed watching it.

I think it's because there are a considerable number of Dem voters who are quite far left, and the Dems are terrified of losing them. So, they simply can't moderate and risk that group sitting home and refusing to vote for them.

 

[Cope]

It really does seem like they are holding firm to virtually all their previous policy platforms and to their technique of telling voters those are the things they should support and care about.

I have to agree, so far, they aren't changing a thing. Not a single policy and not a single tactic. I'm amazed watching it.

I think it's because there are a considerable number of Dem voters who are quite far left, and the Dems are terrified of losing them. So, they simply can't moderate and risk that group sitting home and refusing to vote for them.

And to do that would require?

A ditching of far left policy, and when they do that?

They can't afford to lose anyone, since the independent/centrists win elections. But if they move center, the lose the far left. If they lose the far left, they don't win either.

They are stuck trying to find issues that resonate with those independents and centrists that the far left agrees with.

Adding: Those issues are ALL SOCIAL in nature.

 

[gbg3]

They are stuck trying to find issues that resonate with those independents and centrists that the far left agrees with.

Adding: Those issues are ALL SOCIAL in nature.

Issues which resonate with independents/centrists and also with the far left - are very few and far between.

Can anyone think of what those might be?

 

[Cope]

Issues which resonate with independents/centrists and also with the far left - are very few and far between.

Can anyone think of what those might be?

Social issues, in a general sense, which is why they focus so hard on them.

 

[Puigb]

Yeah. Considering Biden’s overall job approval of 39% one would have expected a GOP landslide more akin to 1980 which Carter and Biden had almost identical numbers. That didn’t happen. Sure, Trump won, but he basically squeaked by. A draw is a good way to put it. By nominating Trump, the GOP denied themselves of a landslide victory. Harris coming as close as she did speak volumes more about Trump than Harris or the democrats.

This is the list of sitting presidents who had an overall job approval of below 50% and the results.

1952 Truman 33%, his replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower

1968 LBJ 43%, his replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon

1976 Ford 45%, Ford lost reelection to Carter

1980 Carter 37%, Carter lost reelection to Reagan

1992 G.H.W. Bush 34%, Bush lost reelection to Bill Clinton

2008 G.W. Bush 28%, his replacement McCain lost to Obama

2020 Trump 43%, Trump lost reelection to Biden

2024 Biden 39%, his replacement Harris lost to Trump.

a 1980 landslide can never happen in the modern era. Bush had a 28% approval rating on Election Day 2008, and Obama couldn't even win 400 EV's, and he was a much stronger candidate than any of the clowns the GOP had running in 2024.

Regardless, what happened in 2024 is irrelevant to now. Right now, Trump is unpopular on pretty much all issues, except immigration, which he's barely above water on. And now after 'beefing" with the richest man in the world, who called him a pedo in front of the entire world and called for his impeachment....Trump base will keep shrinking to that 35% or so who worship the ground he walks on, which is not enough to win him or the GOP elections. The GOP is a circus, they can't govern, their leaders are basically all lunatics, and despite controlling the WH, senate, and house they can't get anything done besides executive orders, or stupid nonsense like "Gulf of America". Dems are best to let him continue the way they are going, and destroy them with the mountain of attack ads they will have come 2026 and 2028.

 

[Puigb]

Not delusional at all. Only the extreme True Believers at both ends of the political spectrum are unpersuadable.

Trump is president of the United States despite insulting millions and millions of voters who didn't vote for him. That alone destroys your talking point.

 

[Puigb]

And to do that would require?

A ditching of far left policy, and when they do that?

what "far left policy"?

 

[Puigb]

Yeah. Considering Biden’s overall job approval of 39% one would have expected a GOP landslide more akin to 1980 which Carter and Biden had almost identical numbers. That didn’t happen. Sure, Trump won, but he basically squeaked by. A draw is a good way to put it. By nominating Trump, the GOP denied themselves of a landslide victory. Harris coming as close as she did speak volumes more about Trump than Harris or the democrats.

This is the list of sitting presidents who had an overall job approval of below 50% and the results.

1952 Truman 33%, his replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower

1968 LBJ 43%, his replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon

1976 Ford 45%, Ford lost reelection to Carter

1980 Carter 37%, Carter lost reelection to Reagan

1992 G.H.W. Bush 34%, Bush lost reelection to Bill Clinton

2008 G.W. Bush 28%, his replacement McCain lost to Obama

2020 Trump 43%, Trump lost reelection to Biden

2024 Biden 39%, his replacement Harris lost to Trump.

Also, if Trump is such a weak candidate, how did he outperform numerous GOP house and senate candidates on the same ballot? There's a segment of low proposenity voters who will only vote for Trump, and nobody else. You'll never convince me that Nikki Haley, a neocon establishment politician if there ever was one, could even come close to winning the rust belt, or 77 million votes.

 

[Along Came Jones]

Trump is president of the United States despite insulting millions and millions of voters who didn't vote for him. That alone destroys your talking point.

Oh, contraire, mi amigo. Trump's return to power was predicated by much more than insults. Both 2016 and 2024 were the culmination of literal generations of pen- up resentment and alienation.

My attempt to explain the release was at post #236 and repeated below:

Re: the Democratic Party lacks a strong, single-minded populist autocrat who’s willing to exploit the fragile hopes of the desperate and disillusioned.

Here is an applicable term not spoken by Everyman: illiberal populism or as some call it, illiberal democracy. It explains Trump's rise from television celebrity to elected president and his return to power.

The MAGA movement has deep roots. After fifty years I still remember this opening paragraph from C. Wright Mill's The Power Elite (1959)

The powers of ordinary men are circumscribed by the everyday worlds in which they live, yet even in these rounds of job, family, and neighborhood they often seem driven by forces they can neither understand nor govern. ‘Great changes’ are beyond their control, but affect their conduct and outlook none the less. The very framework of modern society confines them to projects not their own, but from every side, such changes now press upon the men and women of the mass society, who accordingly feel that they are without purpose in an epoch in which they are without power.

Updating that paragraph to describe the powerlessness of ordinary men and women today, you arrive at a feeling of abandonment by and alienation from liberal democracy and its institutions. Over time the diminishment of cultural identity and social cohesiveness aggravated by too rapid economic changes, and the perceived failure of institutions to equitably balance the effects across classes, makes a bull-in-the-China-shop illiberal populist leader like Trump a natural choice for hopes of change and equalization.

That's my opinion, anyway. And what Democrats should do, also my opinion, is move to the center with problem solving candidates to reclaim the alienated and disaffected.

 

[braindrain]

She shouldn't be the nominee because she won't win. Democrats will have to find a white, straight, middle aged guy that can win over independents and some Republicans if they want to take the White House again.
It sucks but that's the reality.

Yep. Obama definitely showed us all that America is not ready to vote for anyone but a white straight middle aged guy.

It’s why he is still so unpopular.


Trying to blame the loss on racism or sexism is just a sign of you burying your head in the sand because you would rather do that then face reality.

 

[lynnwinslow]

Yep. Obama definitely showed us all that America is not ready to vote for anyone but a white straight middle aged guy.

It’s why he is still so unpopular.


Trying to blame the loss on racism or sexism is just a sign of you burying your head in the sand because you would rather do that then face reality.

Nah.
There are lots of people still butt hurt that a black man won. Twice. And the country is more polarized. Why chance a racist backlash in the polls? (rhetorical question)