Stripping rights from Free Persons

[Thunder]

In our society, we strip rights from folks who are on parole, convicts who have passed their parole period, and even folks who have never been convicted of a crime.

Many states strip felons of their right to vote.

Parolies often can't cross state-lines, can't enter certain establishments.

Convicted pedophiles can't be near schools, playground, etc.

Even persons who haven't been convicted of any crime, get their rights restricted, such as through restraining orders.

These are all FREE persons, and yet their rights have been curtailed.

Should we continue this process?

Should FREE men have all their rights & privelages intact?

Is there a better solution?

 

[Arbo]

It works out fine. If you are a scumbag (i.e. criminal), **** you.

 

[Ikari]

In our society, we strip rights from folks who are on parole, convicts who have passed their parole period, and even folks who have never been convicted of a crime.

Many states strip felons of their right to vote.

Parolies often can't cross state-lines, can't enter certain establishments.

Convicted pedophiles can't be near schools, playground, etc.

Even persons who haven't been convicted of any crime, get their rights restricted, such as through restraining orders.

These are all FREE persons, and yet their rights have been curtailed.

Should we continue this process?

Should FREE men have all their rights & privelages intact?

Is there a better solution?

The individual should have their exercise of their rights and liberties maintained and protected till such time as they infringe upon the rights of others and are declared guilty in a court of law. And in that case, barring Life in Prison without Parole, all punishment periods come to an end where once again the free exercise of rights is again recognized.

 

[Thunder]

It works out fine. If you are a scumbag (i.e. criminal), **** you.

folks who can't vote, shouldn't have to pay taxes. No taxation without representation is a logical position to hold. so either give felons back their right to vote or make them immune from income, property, & sales taxes.

as far as the other many regulations, I'm happy with them.

 

[Thunder]

The individual should have their exercise of their rights and liberties maintained and protected till such time as they infringe upon the rights of others and are declared guilty in a court of law. And in that case, barring Life in Prison without Parole, all punishment periods come to an end where once again the free exercise of rights is again recognized.

so you are against parole restrictions, stripping felons of the right to vote and own a gun, stripping sex-offenders of the right to be near schools & playgrounds?

 

[Arbo]

folks who can't vote, shouldn't have to pay taxes. No taxation without representation is a logical position to hold. so either give felons back their right to vote or make them immune from income, property, & sales taxes.

BS. You commit and get convicted of a felony, screw you. Live life right or suffer.

 

[Daktoria]

If you think a parolee is a free person, then you don't know what freedom is.

Anyway, I don't really like these types of conversations. They're very negative, and don't add anything to society.

 

[Ikari]

so you are against parole restrictions, stripping felons of the right to vote and own a gun, stripping sex-offenders of the right to be near schools & playgrounds?

Once one's debt to the State is paid, signified by completion of punishment period, then their free exercise of their rights should once again be recognized and protected in full.

 

[Thunder]

Once one's debt to the State is paid, signified by completion of punishment period, then their free exercise of their rights should once again be recognized and protected in full.

parole, is part of the punishment period.

but besides parole, you are against restraining orders? you are against keeping sex-criminals from being near schools & playgrounds?

 

[Ikari]

parole, is part of the punishment period.

but besides parole, you are against restraining orders? you are against keeping sex-criminals from being near schools & playgrounds?

Parole is indeed part of the punishment period.

Restraining orders are individual to individual and are ok. You may not infringe upon the rights of others, and restraining orders are for those whom have demonstrated an inability to do that thus causing duress and rights infringement to another. State use of force is limited and should not be enacted upon an individual who has finished the full of their punishment periods; including restrictions on residence. And no lists as well.

 

[Carjosse]

You should never have your right to vote taken away form you. You should also be free to go and live where you want as long as it doesn't present a danger (like pedophiles near schools).

 

[Thunder]

You should never have your right to vote taken away form you. You should also be free to go and live where you want as long as it doesn't present a danger (like pedophiles near schools).

devil's advocate says: being a pedophile near a school is no more dangerous than being a horny 18 year-old near a dance club.

 

[ttwtt78640]

folks who can't vote, shouldn't have to pay taxes. No taxation without representation is a logical position to hold. so either give felons back their right to vote or make them immune from income, property, & sales taxes.

as far as the other many regulations, I'm happy with them.

Corporations can not vote, are they to be tax free as well in your world?

 

[Thunder]

Corporations can not vote, are they to be tax free as well in your world?

corporations don't have fingers to vote with.

 

[ttwtt78640]

devil's advocate says: being a pedophile near a school is no more dangerous than being a horny 18 year-old near a dance club.

A dance club full of 9 year olds? You obviously don't think things through very well. We have very strict recreational drug laws that ban ALL use, posession and sale, yet they are EVERYWHERE. You are not going to turn the USA into a place where criminals can not get guns (or drugs). Making actual CRIME not pay, i.e. strict law enforcement and REAL sentences, is the answer, not simply trying to pretend that crime may be prevented in advance by passing IMPOSSIBLE to enforce laws. What would your sentence be for a "bad" person caught merely posessing a firearm (say in the trunk/glove box of the car they are driving)?

 

[ttwtt78640]

corporations don't have fingers to vote with.

But you seem to have no taxation without representation problem with them. Hmm...

 

[dontworrybehappy]

You should never have your right to vote taken away form you. You should also be free to go and live where you want as long as it doesn't present a danger (like pedophiles near schools).

There have been numerous studies done that show no correlation between a sex offenders likelihood to re-offend and their proximity to a school. That being said, it would be smart for a known pedo to not live right next to a school, if for any reason, to put others at ease, even if its a false sense of security.

Most people don't realize that a sex offenders living restrictions are only while on parole or probation. I've looked on the local registry and seen some SO's well within 1000 feet of schools and daycares and I called the local sheriff and was told if they aren't on parole or probation they can live anywhere they want to, they are considered "free". The same goes for voting rights. At least here in Louisiana, your voting rights are automatically reinstated as soon as you get off of parole or probation once you submit the letter of completion (of parole or probation) to the local voting precinct.

 

[Ikari]

But you seem to have no taxation without representation problem with them. Hmm...

Corporations aren't people, they're things. It's like saying your house has taxation without representation. It's impossible, the house is a thing. Corporation is property and can be treated as such, corporations have no innate rights as property is not an object which can possess rights.

 

[Thunder]

A dance club full of 9 year olds? You obviously don't think things through very well....

i was talking about non-pedophiles.

if we can keep pedophiles away from schools & playgrounds after then leave prison, can we also keep rapists away from dance clubs?

 

[Thunder]

But you seem to have no taxation without representation problem with them. Hmm...

you're right, I should have said "adult citizens".

all adult citizens have the right to vote under our Constitution, but not all "persons" do.

if an adult citizen loses the right to vote, he shouldn't have to pay any taxes.

 

[Thunder]

...Most people don't realize that a sex offenders living restrictions are only while on parole or probation....

I believe that sex-offenders can be ordered to stay away from schools & playgrounds even after their parole is finished.

 

[American]

so you are against parole restrictions, stripping felons of the right to vote and own a gun, stripping sex-offenders of the right to be near schools & playgrounds?

If they can't regain their rights, then you are saying the punishment wasn't severe or sufficient to repay for the offense.

 

[American]

you're right, I should have said "adult citizens".

all adult citizens have the right to vote under our Constitution, but not all "persons" do.

if an adult citizen loses the right to vote, he shouldn't have to pay any taxes.

Sounds like something many people would be willing to take advantage of.

 

[Thunder]

If they can't regain their rights, then you are saying the punishment wasn't severe or sufficient to repay for the offense.

ok, this is good.

you're saying the loss of the right to vote, own a gun, cross state lines, go to a casino, etc etc...is PART of their sentence?

that's a good way of looking at it.

this way, they may be out of prison, but they are not FREE citizens...as they are still being punished for their crime....just not in prison.

 

[Caine]

so you are against parole restrictions, stripping felons of the right to vote and own a gun, stripping sex-offenders of the right to be near schools & playgrounds?

Being a police officer, this may come as a surprise to some on this forum, but...

Stripping Felons of the right to vote is unacceptable, unless the felony they committed was voter fraud.

Stripping Felons of the right to own a gun is unacceptable, unless they committed a violent or felony drug crime. (Guns and Drugs and Violent Crime go hand in hand, as has been recognized by the Supreme Court). Not all felonies are violent, or even have the potential for violence. A guy who steals 1000 dollars worth of MP3s isn't necessarily a violent threat to society with a gun.

Stripping Sex-Offenders of the right to be near schools and playgrounds is unacceptable, unless the specific facts of their case show that their target was a random person (instead of the neighbor girl or friend of sister or something) and that person has had a psychological profile that suggests they are predatory. Contrary to popular belief, most sex offenders are not hanging around schools looking to pick up random little girls and boys to ****.