Stores can't force me to wear a mask!!!!

[The Hairy Fiddler]

Opinion noted.

Is that al you got? You seem quite able to blabber your arrogant mouth to other posters, you afraid of me? I didn't give opinions Sleuth I gave you the cold brutal facts. I see no dispute on what I presented because you can't dispute facts. I have proven here on this thread how ridiculous you are. Just because this is a public forum it doesn't provide a platform to spew out utter bullshit. Because people like me will shove the truth right up your ass.

 

[The Hairy Fiddler]

And let's not forget the part of the pandemic that is even worse in economic terms AND in terms of recovering civilization, the CLINICAL CRISIS.
I am talking about all the hospitals which are stretched to the point of collapse.
If we keep on allowing others to act like idiots, we may wind up witnessing a very real and actual collapse of the healthcare system that wipes out almost ALL healthcare services INCLUDING COVID treatment AND everything ELSE.
Dead bodies in the streets, okay? Hundreds of thousands of homes with people who have been dead for weeks, months or more, okay?
Entire families wiped out, maybe even the core of hundreds of small rural towns, GONE.

Once people die, they are no longer the immediate active part of the COVID pandemic, they are part of the tragedy, the tragedy is something that lives IN the PAST. It is the hospital crisis that is the current and immediate problem and it always has been.
So concentrating on the death toll as if it's the most important part of the ongoing problem is incredibly stupid and absurd because it simply is not the worst part of the crisis.
It's the saddest part but not the worst.
I implore everyone to look at the whole problem, not just the sensational death tolls.

These are all good points and is part of the reason I lost my temper with Cach. I just can't take ignorant people that think they above it all and that the historic death rate this pandemic has created here in my country. There are plenty of studies out there confirming that had Trump listened to the healthcare people from the get go. and done his job correctly, the death count would be around 100.000 or so.

Biden has mandated mask wearing in Federal buildings. Well whoopty hell. He should mandate masking everywhere with severe punishment if not followed. The "what about mah rights crowd" need to be round up and taken off the streets. This is my country. and my fellow Americans that are losing their lives over a simple behavior modification. If people have breathing issues, then wear a face shield.

As an aside. early results show that vaccines are working just as well on the Covid variants. Perhaps I am being overly optimistic here. I think we will be back to normal living in 6-8 months.

 

[Jason Warfield]

The Civil Rights Act of 1965 does NOT cover anyone with medical disabilities. That is why the ADA exists. Speaking of which, even if you claim religious exemption, the ADA and Civil Rights Act covers the fact that a store can still prevent you from coming into the store...as long as reasonable accommodations are given to you.

There is a section in the ADA that talks about the responsibilities to the handicapped by businesses...as well as the businesses' responsibilities to the employees. Basically, the section states that during a health state of emergency (or whatever phrase is used to mean the same thing), a business' first priority is the safety of its employees. That means that since the business is privately owned, they can demand anyone entering to wear a mask to protect their employees during this state of emergency. However, if they are to be open, then they need to provide reasonable accommodation to those who won't/can't wear a mask. Like ordering online or offering to or accepting to collect items needed and providing curbside service.

Also, it should be noted that the only time the ADA actually mentions masks...it is to make sure that businesses allow people who WEAR masks accommodations as opposed to denying service. It makes NO mention of wearing a mask as a handicap. As of the end of July, the definition of wearing a mask as a handicap is being debated as well as claiming to be handicapped to you don't need to wear a mask. There has not been a resolution and even if there was, it still has to go through the legislative process in order to amend the ADA.

In short, the ADA and the Civil Rights Act of 1965 actually PROTECT businesses for requiring a mask to enter if that is their policy to do so. Think of it this way: how many lawsuits have been won, forcing businesses to let those without masks into a place of business where there is a policy of no entry without a mask?

 

[AncientGeek]

Not interested in your cartoons or pathetic memes.

 

[snakestretcher]

And then those particles sit upon that mask being held up against your nose and mouth as you breath in and breath out through that permeable mask - holding it there just waiting for you to suck it into your system.

What? It's already in your system in the scenario you just described. Try thinking before you post; it really does help.

 

[snakestretcher]

Moron cartoons written by moron cartoonists aren't funny. You guys cannot meme.

This, however, is hilarious...

 

[snakestretcher]

Im sorry, I didn't word that well. The only time limit I know of in these is based on how long you use them. I sometimes wear a P100 just to see people's reactions.

A P100 filters out 100% of particles 0.3 microns or smaller but only going in it has an exhale valve

They also have a shelf life. The filtration medium degrades over time-typically about five years.

Why Do Disposable Respirators Have a Defined Shelf Life? |

workersafety.3m.com

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You literally posted a study that showed whites and minorities wear masks at the same rates... now you're saying they're different? That's... just a weird thing to post.

We already covered that minority employees and customers, the least likely to be working from home and most likely to be out interacting, need to wear masks at higher rates than people sitting at home and working from home, which disproportionately is non minority demographics. Fining non mask wearers would disproportionately affect minority populations as they are working and serving customers at much higher relative rates than non minority populations. It's exactly why there is higher spread in minority communities; even though mask wearing is similar, minority populations are disproportionately interacting with people, meaning the members of minority communities that don't wear masks are spreading Covid much faster than members of non minority populations.

At this point you are just being intellectually dishonest.

 

[CLAX1911]

Is that al you got?

I don't care about your pathetic attempts to insult.

 

[CLAX1911]

View attachment 67315070

That one is decent

 

[CLAX1911]

This, however, is hilarious...

He's clearly asking somebody about something. I don't know it's funny here.

 

[CLAX1911]

They also have a shelf life. The filtration medium degrades over time-typically about five years.

Why Do Disposable Respirators Have a Defined Shelf Life? |

workersafety.3m.com

That makes sense

 

[Metric Mouse]

Minorities are smart enough to wear a damn mask

The studies, data and outcomes all show otherwise, unfortunately.

 

[Metric Mouse]

If we don't the mutant strains will outrun the vaccine, and we are back at Square One again.
That's when the healthcare system finally implodes, that's when we start seeing deaths in the multiple millions and that is when we see societal collapse and economic disaster that dwarfs the Great Depression by factors of ten.
That's when the United States starts to look like The Walking Dead only with raging starving idiots instead of zombies.
And bodies all over the place and no one to deal with it.
Think that can't happen? Check out what happened to India before the age of vaccines and antibiotics. Not very long ago.

1918 pandemic calling; says you watch too much TV, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

Even if the worst came to worst, we are only looking at backsliding to the 1970s, not the 18th century.

 

[Metric Mouse]

At this point you are just being intellectually dishonest.

Arguing against racist policies designed to punish minorities for engaging in the same behavior at the same rate as non minorities is not dishonest.

It's dishonest to pretend mask fines are anything else.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Arguing against racist policies designed to punish minorities for engaging in the same behavior at the same rate as non minorities is not dishonest.

It's dishonest to pretend mask fines are anything else.

Ignoring polling that doesn't support your claim, and multiple lines of evidence that don't support your claim is what is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Ignoring polling that doesn't support your claim, and multiple lines of evidence that don't support your claim is what is intellectually dishonest.

The polls you posted, and the arguments and evidence you presented, supported my claim.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

The polls you posted, and the arguments and evidence you presented, supported my claim.

Not even close.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The polls you posted, and the arguments and evidence you presented, supported my claim.

And again you are being intellectually dishonest.

1. You claimed the polling showing that minorities where masks at higher rates than whites was statistically insignificant because the difference was in the margin of error. In actuality, the margin of error is 2%, but the difference well exceeds.

So that would be the first example of you being intellectually dishonest.

I then posted numerous lines of data showing that minorities are more likely to work in industries that put them in direct contact with customers and that their higher rates of COVID infections is due to that.

You just ignored that data which is your second example of being intellectually dishonest.

So there really isn't any point in going any further.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Not even close.

Right? They're making my argument for me, and then going "nuh uh". So not close.

 

[Metric Mouse]

And again you are being intellectually dishonest.

1. You claimed the polling showing that minorities where masks at higher rates than whites was statistically insignificant because the difference was in the margin of error. In actuality, the margin of error is 2%, but the difference well exceeds.

So that would be the first example of you being intellectually dishonest.

I then posted numerous lines of data showing that minorities are more likely to work in industries that put them in direct contact with customers and that their higher rates of COVID infections is due to that.

You just ignored that data which is your second example of being intellectually dishonest.

So there really isn't any point in going any further.

1. That's... that's not how margin of error works...

2. I agreed with you! The data is clear! Which is why I stated that mask laws would disproportionately impact minority populations, as they are more likely to be out interacting with others! That's the whole point! No one is going to fine Allan the IT analyst for not wearing a mask while he works at home in his basement, but Mike who works around people will get fined. That's the whole point.

And policies like this need to be nipped at the bud because people are already talking about more policies like not allowing unvaxxinated persons into schools or on airplanes or in jobs. With minority acceptance of and likelihood of getting Covid vaccines much, much lower than the general population, such policies would be another blow to upward mobility and life opportunities for minority populations, removing access to employment, travel and education. Couple that with fining minorities whenever they leave the house, and scapegoating minorities for the overrepresented cases of Covid among minority populations, and decades of progress could be undone.

And again, yes, I get that undoing such progress is the point of such laws. I still think it's wrong.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

[

1. That's... that's not how margin of error works...

2. I agreed with you! The data is clear! Which is why I stated that mask laws would disproportionately impact minority populations, as they are more likely to be out interacting with others! That's the whole point! No one is going to fine Allan the IT analyst for not wearing a mask while he works at home in his basement, but Mike who works around people will get fined. That's the whole point.

And policies like this need to be nipped at the bud because people are already talking about more policies like not allowing unvaxxinated persons into schools or on airplanes or in jobs. With minority acceptance of and likelihood of getting Covid vaccines much, much lower than the general population, such policies would be another blow to upward mobility and life opportunities for minority populations, removing access to employment, travel and education. Couple that with fining minorities whenever they leave the house, and scapegoating minorities for the overrepresented cases of Covid among minority populations, and decades of progress could be undone.

And again, yes, I get that undoing such progress is the point of such laws. I still think it's wrong.

You can't explain away 6% difference in mask usage with a 2% margin of error. A poll with just a 2% margin of error is actually a highly accurate poll.

Secondly a worker interacting with customers is already required to wear a mask, those being potentially fined would be the customers not in compliance. We are talking about protecting workers that are disproportionately minorities.

Your argument is the height of intellectual dishonestly, just like your claiming to be a progressive. It's total bullshit.

 

[Metric Mouse]

A 2% margin of error means t

You can't explain away 6% difference in mask usage with a 2% margin of error. A poll with just a 2% margin of error is actually a highly accurate poll.

Secondly a worker interacting with customers is already required to wear a mask, those being potentially fined would be the customers not in compliance.

Was the difference not 73% to 77% - within a 2% margin of error. Too many posts to go back and look it up, so whatever, even at 6%, that's just outside the margin of error, and therefore such a small difference that it doesn't matter. 23 people out of a hundred or 26 people out of the hundred that come through the store that day? statistically insignificant.

2. What state do you live in where workers are required to wear masks by law but customers are not? I've never even seen any orders that would be that lax. I think you're assuming facts not in evidence. Your argument that white people are running around minority communities spreading disease, but aren't getting sick themselves, smacks of some kind of racially based fear.

We know which communities are being hit hardest by Covid 19, and which populations, and singling them out for fines and ostracism is not the way to solve the health crisis that is affecting these communities.

But I understand why many people want to do such things anyway.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Was the difference not 73% to 77% - within a 2% margin of error. Too many posts to go back and look it up, so whatever, even at 6%, that's just outside the margin of error, and therefore such a small difference that it doesn't matter. 23 people out of a hundred or 26 people out of the hundred that come through the store that day? statistically insignificant.

2. What state do you live in where workers are required to wear masks by law but customers are not? I've never even seen any orders that would be that lax. I think you're assuming facts not in evidence. Your argument that white people are running around minority communities spreading disease, but aren't getting sick themselves, smacks of some kind of racially based fear.

We know which communities are being hit hardest by Covid 19, and which populations, and singling them out for fines and ostracism is not the way to solve the health crisis that is affecting these communities.

But I understand why many people want to do such things anyway.

You should try arguing something other than a strawman. As I have previously shown two polls (the poll had results from a previous one as well) show that white people wear masks at lower rates than minorities. So that alone blows your argument about minorities being disproportionately impacted by penalties for not wearing a mask out of the water. If they are wearing masks at greater rates than whites, then increasing the rates that whites wear masks while in indoor public areas actually benefits minorities.

Moreover, in virtually every city in the country right now, workers in direct contact with customers are required to wear masks and businesses can be fined for non-compliance. Which is the point, as demonstrated in previous links, workers that come into contact with customers are by and large already wearing masks, the problem is customers that are not in full compliance.

Which is where your whole intellectual dishonesty comes in. You are trying to argue that penalties for not wearing masks in indoor public areas would disproportionately hurt minority communities when in fact, from all the available evidence, we know that it would actually benefit those communities and reduce COVID infection rates in those communities. If someone is working as a cashier, it is to their benefit if everyone that they come in contact with during their work day has a mask on and is wearing it properly over their mouth and nose. Reducing penalties for non-mask compliance only increases the number of customers that cashier will come into contact that day that don't have a mask on properly, and thus doesn't help them, it hurts them.

 

[Metric Mouse]

You should try arguing something other than a strawman. As I have previously shown two polls (the poll had results from a previous one as well) show that white people wear masks at lower rates than minorities. So that alone blows your argument about minorities being disproportionately impacted by penalties for not wearing a mask out of the water. If they are wearing masks at greater rates than whites, then increasing the rates that whites wear masks while in indoor public areas actually benefits minorities.

Moreover, in virtually every city in the country right now, workers in direct contact with customers are required to wear masks and businesses can be fined for non-compliance. Which is the point, as demonstrated in previous links, workers that come into contact with customers are by and large already wearing masks, the problem is customers that are not in full compliance.

Which is where your whole intellectual dishonesty comes in. You are trying to argue that penalties for not wearing masks in indoor public areas would disproportionately hurt minority communities when in fact, from all the available evidence, we know that it would actually benefit those communities and reduce COVID infection rates in those communities. If someone is working as a cashier, it is to their benefit if everyone that they come in contact with during their work day has a mask on and is wearing it properly over their mouth and nose. Reducing penalties for non-mask compliance only increases the number of customers that cashier will come into contact that day that don't have a mask on properly, and thus doesn't help them, it hurts them.

Why are the customers in non compliance? Do you have a study that says that? All places I've been require workers and customers to wear masks. Do lots of places force workers to wear masks but not customers? You're making that up.