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Stone Mountain –Confederate sculpture – Remove it-Yes-No?

Stone Mountain –Confederate sculpture – Remove it-Yes-No?


  • Total voters
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I am all in favor of these statues being removed to museums. As to Stone Mountain, it stays, with markers detailing events of the Civil War.
That and my opinion has always been the Civil War was over slavery. Which is an abomination before God

Imagine the backlash that would occur if anyone suggested having a statue of the abolitionist John brown placed alongside a statue of Jefferson Davis.
 
Then let me offer up an alternative: instead of altering Stone Mountain in any way, why not place a statue nearby of someone that opposed the institution of slavary. Perhaps a statue of the radical abolitionist John brown?

That is a great idea actually I would support that.
 
Or show the robes and sheets parades next to 1915 deep Jim Crow era Stone Mountain etching with it's roots deeply entangled with the KKK (who for decades and decades held annual cross burnings there) .

Maybe a plaque to the KKK for all the "good" they did ennobling it. That's the ticket!

ETA: Hey look -- I just found out the Sacred Knights of the Ku Klux Klan applied to hold another cross burning there in October of this year.

Don't need a plaque the words of Woodrow Wilson after seeing 'Birth of a Nation' is sufficient.
 
I criticized one statement: 'Virginia was the most populous state in the first 9 elections' and that's not even close to being accurate!
Then you indulge in some bombastic flourish about how the 3/5 agreement tainted those first 9 election which when I thoroughly explained wasn't
so, you go off on a tangent about local elections which was no part of your initial faulty post.

There is no need to digress into pretzel like contortions in an attempt to validate a debunked presentation of the facts. That's CNN's job!

My initial post was the one you quoted: "Of the antebellum South and the future CSA, I blame those citizens who voted in year after year elected officials who promised -- decade after decade, to maintain, protect and expand the practice of human bondage. Ponder that, Confederate defenders."

Which is true. Front to back. Southerners voted in these slavery supporters up and down the line, decade after decade till and even during the Civil War.

And my point about Virginia (of which I was a few years off) was this: Eight of the first nine presidential races were won by a Virginian.

& THIS: "the South dominated congress for near all of the first quarter of our history."

My 3/5ths point still stands, and for those new to the thread -- this was the follow -up post (with two words added for accuracy) in full:


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Paperview

The 3/5th clause was primarily about reapportionment.

The North did not want the slaves counted - because they were property, much as a horse or cow was property.

In fact at the Constitutional Convention, some Northern reps even argued if property could be counted for reapportionment, why not their own horses?

The south wanted full count to beef up their numbers in Congress, which it did -- they just didn't want those same people -- er, property, to vote or to actually have representation.

That would kinda jam up their plans.

It was a dirty compromise - because the southerners said they would not ratify the Constitution if they could not give their slave property at least 3/5ths representation in Congress.

Without giving them representation. They used their slaves as hostages to the negotiation.
The deal was done, then the South dominated congress for near all of the first quarter of our history.

Eight of the first nine presidential races were won by a Virginian - which was the most populous state *until 1820.

And this: Every single president, with the exception of two (from the North, the Adams') until 1850 - was a slaveowner."


It seems totally lost on him.

Pointing out the South wanted to count the slaves as more than 3/5ths and the North didn't want to count them at all is a long, tired, worn out Lost Cause talking point. There is nothing to infer from this - other than Southern slaveholders wanted even MORE representation in Congress for people ...er, property "
who had no representation in Congress, and were viewed as nothing more than farm animals".

You can pick on the bones of a few years error and miss the general point being made here all you want from this point on. I don't care. The statements stand.
 
You do realize that John brown is a bit of a controversial figure?

His opposition to slavery was a bit... more forceful then other people of his day.

Yea Harpers Ferry etc... its factual history. A memorial whether it is etchings or statues or whatever... is a representation of history. To me its a tool for learning as much as anything else.
And I certainly believe in the Santayana quote those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
 
Don't need a plaque the words of Woodrow Wilson after seeing 'Birth of a Nation' is sufficient.

Wilson *was* a racist - but the words you speak of you think he said were never said. Dixon, the author of the book, and promoter of the film is the one who said he said it -- and was relentless in publicizing the film. There is no proof Wilson ever said it.

Wilson did write later he disapproved of the "unfortunate production."
 
Imagine the backlash that would occur if anyone suggested having a statue of the abolitionist John brown placed alongside a statue of Jefferson Davis.

Yes it would.
 
Or show the robes and sheets parades next to 1915 deep Jim Crow era Stone Mountain etching with it's roots deeply entangled with the KKK (who for decades and decades held annual cross burnings there) .

Maybe a plaque to the KKK for all the "good" they did ennobling it. That's the ticket!

ETA: Hey look -- I just found out the Sacred Knights of the Ku Klux Klan applied to hold another cross burning there in October of this year.

So you've made the point that they are being used by White Supremacists or the KKK in this instance. Again most of the statues were erected DECADES after the Civil war. Many of them in the 1960's during the Civil rights movement. It doesn't look like the Southern "in your face bigotry" has changed much since the 1800's, especially not since North Carolina has erected 30 new monuments since 2000.
 
So you've made the point that they are being used by White Supremacists or the KKK in this instance. Again most of the statues were erected DECADES after the Civil war. Many of them in the 1960's during the Civil rights movement. It doesn't look like the Southern "in your face bigotry" has changed much since the 1800's, especially not since North Carolina has erected 30 new monuments since 2000.

I wonder why no one has put up a statue to John brown?
 
Wilson *was* a racist - but the words you speak of you think he said were never said. Dixon, the author of the book, and promoter of the film is the one who said he said it -- and was relentless in publicizing the film. There is no proof Wilson ever said it.

Wilson did write later he disapproved of the "unfortunate production."

Revisionist history, I figured that would be bought up. I course he said it & by the way it was said by probably
the foremost Democratic Presidential intellect.

Liston, I admire your obvious interests in US history & accept as fact that you make a living from it, but your bias is
profound & it lead to falsehoods on this thread.

It seems totally appropriate for you to display, a total eclipse of fairness, on the day of the first total eclipse
of the sun since Wilson's remarks a century ago.
 
But they were English citizens when they did it.

That was part of the problem... they identified as Americans, not English. Read about it... ;)
 
That was part of the problem... they identified as Americans, not English. Read about it... ;)

I understand that. But technically, they were a colony of England. So revolting was legally treason. England executed a couple guys for it. They were also "war criminals". The guerilla fighting style we learned from the natives was "against the rules".
 
I'm having a bit of a problem wrapping my mind around your analogy, perhaps you can help me understand how getting what some may consider to be a handout equates to picking cotton and being owned.

Both parties have evolved considerably and I fail to see how either of them can rest on their laurels.

I think you can work it out.
 
I suggest that all Confederate memorabilia be temporarily stored and then put them in the Trump Presidential Library when it's built in St. Petersburg, Russia. ;)



Shall we move all of the monuments to Lenin and Karl Marx into Obama's presidential library? May the overflow can goe to the Bill Clinton Library. Alas, poor Hillary Von Pant Suit will never have her own library.
 
Are you aware of the fact that most even better yet almost all of the polls during the 2016 primaries & the 2016 general
election had far less than 1125 people surveyed. Most had 400 to1000. If you didn't realize that maybe you should
'recuse yourself' from participation in this thread. 1125 is a more than complete survey and it was performed by the
notorious progressive NPR!!!!!

But then he was AOK with all of them librul polls claiming Hillary was going to win.
 
I am all in favor of these statues being removed to museums. As to Stone Mountain, it stays, with markers detailing events of the Civil War.
That and my opinion has always been the Civil War was over slavery. Which is an abomination before God

The Civil War was primarily about southern states attempting to secede from the Union. Yes, slavery was a motivation, however the issue of slavery did not come up until the third year of the war when the Union troops needed a rallying cry.
 
In other words, you don't have an intellectual response to explain your bs...happy trolls to you.

It does not require an explanation. You are merely attempting to dodge the immorality of the left seeking to enslave their constituents by way of government dependence.
 
But then he was AOK with all of them librul polls claiming Hillary was going to win.

Poor guy, if he thought 1125 participants was too small a sample to be a reliable indicator of the situation,
he probably hasn't realized yet that Mrs. Clinton actually lost the election.
 
The Civil War was primarily about southern states attempting to secede from the Union. Yes, slavery was a motivation, however the issue of slavery did not come up until the third year of the war when the Union troops needed a rallying cry.

Bull crap.
 
Wow....a librul dissing polls commissioned by libruls.

Seeing as you cannot spell, it is liberal. The poll was flawed. You have a problem with facts?
 
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