• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Start the Draft!

BodiSatva

The Bodhisattva
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
49
Location
Bodega Bay, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?
 
F

FallingPianos

BodiSatva said:
The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

yeah, it might get people pissed at the war enough for it to be stopped, but it would be at the expense of those that get drafted. its not worth it.
 

alphamale

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
1,120
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
BodiSatva said:
The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

Great, Einstein. The republican congress is going to start a draft, so you can make problems for them.
 

BodiSatva

The Bodhisattva
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
49
Location
Bodega Bay, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Is that English? I heard that this might be a topic in Congress, but I am not sure if it actually was or is. What I heard was hearsay...They might “try” to start a draft, but they are not “going to” until it is voted on. Regardless…how does my posting this create problems for the Republican Congress? This should be interesting…coming from an obvious smart guy like you who has no issues tossing out the degrading remark with nothing substantiating evidence to an obvious idiot like me.
 

F41

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
BodiSatva said:
The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

356074.jpg
 

LogicalReason

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
BodiSatva said:
Regardless…how does my posting this create problems for the Republican Congress? This should be interesting…coming from an obvious smart guy like you who has no issues tossing out the degrading remark with nothing substantiating evidence to an obvious idiot like me.

I believe he was saying that the Republican Congress wasn't going to make problems for itself with a draft. I could be wrong though.

Now to the issue.. I actually think that a draft should be started. However not for the reasons of the BodiSatva. In the past decade our military has been slipping further and further from the top. We should step up military funding, improve training, get our soldiers the equipment they need, and increase the size of our armed forces. We could increase the size without a draft.. but if forced to it I believe that congress should not hesitate.
 

ProudAmerican

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
2,694
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
LogicalReason said:
I believe he was saying that the Republican Congress wasn't going to make problems for itself with a draft. I could be wrong though.

Now to the issue.. I actually think that a draft should be started. However not for the reasons of the BodiSatva. In the past decade our military has been slipping further and further from the top. We should step up military funding, improve training, get our soldiers the equipment they need, and increase the size of our armed forces. We could increase the size without a draft.. but if forced to it I believe that congress should not hesitate.


while I certainly agree with growing our military, funding it, and providing our fighting men and women with the best tools and equipment on the planet, I think a draft would be a horrible idea.

if you think the 60s was chocked full of hippies and cowards, just look at the following of people like cindy shehan today.

hell, just look at this very forum.

I wouldnt want one of these cowards next to me in a fight. the fact is, whether they admit it or not, many of these people simply hate their country and everything it stands for.

An all volunteer force is the only way to go. the men and women that are fighting for our country do so because THEY WANTED TO. not because they were forced to.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,466
Reaction score
2,083
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I am thrilled that you consider those who like to indulge in their freedom people who "hate their government". I recommend that you should realize the difference between "hating the government" and being "upset with the government".

I have yet to see Cindy march around with a sign that says, "We want revolution, ransack the government, bring extreme political reform."
 

LeftyHenry

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
1,896
Reaction score
12
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Arch Enemy said:
I am thrilled that you consider those who like to indulge in their freedom people who "hate their government". I recommend that you should realize the difference between "hating the government" and being "upset with the government".

I have yet to see Cindy march around with a sign that says, "We want revolution, ransack the government, bring extreme political reform."

Well said. :applaud

There has become a frightning amount of people who believe that if you don't agree with the war, then you're a traitor and unpatriotic. They act like if you speak out against the government's actions then you're not American. It's a sad, fascist day in America when one can't speak his beliefs without being unpatriotic.
 

BodiSatva

The Bodhisattva
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
49
Location
Bodega Bay, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I agree as well...aptly put Arch Enemy

Great addition che...

LogicalReason, that makes more sense, and I agree with that logic regarding a build-up as well...

:lol: Nice cartoon ThePhoenix...
 

Sir_Alec

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
979
Reaction score
0
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Some people just don't understand that it is not right for the gov't to force people to go to war. If the people really want to go to war then they will sign up. It just shows how much people support the war and how little they want to fight it which makes them the worst kind of hypocrit.

Personaly I would never fight in any modern war other than world war II which was one of the only just wars in the history of mankind.

I am also sick of people saying that people like me who would never fight in a war like Iraq hate their country. I don't want to fight in Iraq because I don't like our leaders, not because I hate my own country.

Anyways if I hated my country I would have moved by now.
 

BodiSatva

The Bodhisattva
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
49
Location
Bodega Bay, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I agree...

Forcing people to fight is not good. People were not forced to fight in WWII really, most joined up on their own accord. I was a just war against true evil. Any war post WWII, I would not have wanted to fight in either.

Hating leaders for THEIR corruption and THEIR agendas is not the same as disliking ones country. Our leaders from all parties suck...why? Special Interest Groups dominate politics and our "leaders".

Our nation is the best friggin place on earth dammit!
 

F41

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I also disagree with the draft, but for other reasons. If we felt the need to draft people who were not wanting to fight for a cause they do not believe in enough to volunteer for, the first place our military would send them is the front lines.

Draftees would not like me because that would be the first place I would send them myself. This is not to say I do not care for the ones who wish they were not there, but as a military man, I would protect the ones who want to fight for the cause more.

Our people should not be made to fight for a cause they do not believe in or just prefer not to fight.
 

BodiSatva

The Bodhisattva
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
49
Location
Bodega Bay, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That could be a serious mis-allocation or resources. A brilliant, natural leader could be thrown away in favor of some gun loving hick or inner city kid that joined the army just to avoid gangs or that couldn't get into college.

Is this simplification? Yes.

Just following your logic though...

As a military man, I am sure that you know more and could let us know...
 

F41

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
BodiSatva said:
As a military man, I am sure that you know more and could let us know...

I am not Geraldo Rivera and can not give away our exact position. :mrgreen:
 

LogicalReason

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Sir_Alec said:
Some people just don't understand that it is not right for the gov't to force people to go to war. If the people really want to go to war then they will sign up. It just shows how much people support the war and how little they want to fight it which makes them the worst kind of hypocrit.

If it comes to the survival of our nation... would you rather have a draft and force people to fight for their nation or would you want that nation to die? Personally I have no intentions of fighting in a war either.. and I don't agree with the draft as used in vietnam.. but sometimes the ends justify the means.
 
F

FallingPianos

LogicalReason said:
If it comes to the survival of our nation... would you rather have a draft and force people to fight for their nation or would you want that nation to die? Personally I have no intentions of fighting in a war either.. and I don't agree with the draft as used in vietnam.. but sometimes the ends justify the means.

a nation that people wont fight for doesnt deserve to exist.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,466
Reaction score
2,083
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
star2589 said:
a nation that people wont fight for doesnt deserve to exist.


Ah,

So by your logic... Nazi Germany deserves to exist, Stalin's Russia deserves to exist, Mao Ze Dong's China deserves to exist, oh yeah, and Saddam's Iraq deserves to exist.

That logic is flawed.

I will not fight for a nation ruled by corporations. DO NOT tell me that America is not run by the corporations, that the whole corporations ordeal is just a bit conspiracy theory. The truth is, corporations have ALWAYS had this country by the neck.. do not forget the first organizations to fund the settlement of colonies in the new-world, were the primitive equivalents of Corporations. Do not forget that J.P. Morgan paid America's way out of debt, DONT forget how effected our government was by STOCK MARKET crashes.
 

F41

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
star2589 said:
a nation that people wont fight for doesnt deserve to exist.

A people who will not fight for their country can give up our sovereignty. If you do not stand up for your country that person does not deserve the protection of our country, however, they will get it anyway.

I will also quote JFK when he said: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". So, one may not believe in the war their country fights, but do you really want your country and your people to suffer at the hands of their enemy because you would not stand and defend them? That is, unless you feel your enemy is your own people.
 
F

FallingPianos

Arch Enemy said:
Ah,

So by your logic... Nazi Germany deserves to exist, Stalin's Russia deserves to exist, Mao Ze Dong's China deserves to exist, oh yeah, and Saddam's Iraq deserves to exist.

That logic is flawed.

actually your logic is flawed. its called affirming the consequent

just because a nation who's people wont fight for it doesnt deserve to exist, doesnt mean that all nations that people fight for deserve to exist.
 
F

FallingPianos

ThePhoenix said:
A people who will not fight for their country can give up our sovereignty.

I'm not sure what you mean about giving up sovereignty, can you explain?

ThePhoenix said:
If you do not stand up for your country that person does not deserve the protection of our country, however, they will get it anyway.

yeah, because they have no choice in the matter of getting protection. they are in no debt, because there was no agreement.

ThePhoenix said:
I will also quote JFK when he said: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". So, one may not believe in the war their country fights, but do you really want your country and your people to suffer at the hands of their enemy because you would not stand and defend them? That is, unless you feel your enemy is your own people.

I dont have a problem with people volunteering to fight for their country. If you think its worth fighting for, then by all means go fight for it.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,466
Reaction score
2,083
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
star2589 said:
actually your logic is flawed. its called affirming the consequent

just because a nation who's people wont fight for it doesnt deserve to exist, doesnt mean that all nations that people fight for deserve to exist.


But, likewise that would also mean... "A nation who's people won't fight for it does deserve to exist".
 
F

FallingPianos

Arch Enemy said:
But, likewise that would also mean... "A nation who's people won't fight for it does deserve to exist".

how did you come to that conclusion?
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,466
Reaction score
2,083
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Same way you came to your original conclusion.. using an ideal that works for SOME countries, but not all.
 
Top Bottom