Start the Draft!

[Sir_Alec]

Maybe if the Brits and French weren't so fing greedy after WW1 we could have avoided WW2. Maybe if the gov't cared about its citizens they wouldn't have started the draft during the Vietnam war. Maybe if we had the balls to stand for whats right, we could have intervined in Rwanda and stayed in Somolia.

War is always bad, but sometimes you gotta stand up for whats right. Sadly most wars are wasteful conflicts about the current presidents agenda and not for whats right. Examples: Vietnam, Gulfwar 1 & 2.

 

[Duke]

The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

Do tell, how would starting up the draft end the war? Do you think more guns in Iraq will somehow cause the rebellion to disappear? I think not. I believe that will do nothing but fan the flames. But why am I even debating you? I must have forgotten that you said you were right.

I am right...

You apparently think that the best way in initate change is to send kids to their deaths? That is twisted.


Duke

 

[stsburns]

The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

I thought the point of history was to keep from making the same problems?

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

Wasn't it the "Media" that pursuaded such a thing was going to happen in Iraq. The American forces in Iraq consist of the Volunteer National Guard. Which IS NOT a forced draft into the Armed forces.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

You just keep telling yourself that, and I'm going to sit here and laugh at you! :rofl

 

[Saboteur]

The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I am right...it would help end the war faster, but I am sure that there are inherent problems...what are they?

I agree.... I'd like to see some conservatives' kids get shipped off to fight the war they love so much.

 

[BodiSatva]

Since you missed the ENTIRE POINT…I should be laughing at you
Both stsburns and Duke completely missed the point…
I mean, woah, you both totally missed the point…
Utterly and absolutely misunderstood my intentions…
Your assumptions are off base, especially Duke.
Where did you even come up with some of that?

I am not right because I say I am…I am right because initiating a draft would create….oh, why should I even bother with either of you? It is like I am telling people that the sun is hot and that I am right, and your response is not to find out if the sun is hot, thus indicating that I was right, but to laugh at me in ignorance and say, “hehe, he thinks he is right just because he says so, what an idiot…hehehaha, I am gonna laugh at you”. When all along, the sun is hot and you are laughing in ignorance. Sounds pretty pathetic to be you, this last paragraph is to all those that hate my confidence and cannot understand what actually transpires is not recognizable to all, though that does not mean that reality is hidden to all either…

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Since you missed the ENTIRE POINT…I should be laughing at you
Both stsburns and Duke completely missed the point…
I mean, woah, you both totally missed the point…
Utterly and absolutely misunderstood my intentions…
Your assumptions are off base, especially Duke.
Where did you even come up with some of that?

I am not right because I say I am…I am right because initiating a draft would create….oh, why should I even bother with either of you? It is like I am telling people that the sun is hot and that I am right, and your response is not to find out if the sun is hot, thus indicating that I was right, but to laugh at me in ignorance and say, “hehe, he thinks he is right just because he says so, what an idiot…hehehaha, I am gonna laugh at you”. When all along, the sun is hot and you are laughing in ignorance. Sounds pretty pathetic to be you, this last paragraph is to all those that hate my confidence and cannot understand what actually transpires is not recognizable to all, though that does not mean that reality is hidden to all either…

Why no substance? We know you think people are wrong and we don't care. We care about what the argument/debate is about. Get with the program.

You don't seem to grasp the sheer enormity of the US armed forces. If we needed for soldiers we could activate reserves. The US could have 1.4 million personnel active if they activated all reserves. You need more than that? To take over the world, maybe, but not a little (in relation to the world) country in the middle of a desert.

There is no military reason for a draft.

 

[BodiSatva]

I do think that some are people are wrong and some people are right...is this not simply how it is?

Get with the program? I started the thread, you mis-interpret and tell me that I am wrong about something that I never even intended as conversation, and I am the one that needs to get with the program? Bro, you don't even know what this program is. If you cared about the argument/debate, you would address it, and not me. You are a fraud.

I don't grasp yet another thing...stop making me laugh. The USA is the most powerful military force in the world. PERIOD! Yet your assessment is again based on a false assumption taht you think you understand what I was talking about in the first place.

It is tough to play this game with you kids when you don't even know what the game is....

I am aware of some things as are you...I do not know all of your insights, I am sure that I have not thought all situations through, and there are some that you might understand well beyond me...is this not OK? Why can't it be the reverse sometimes? Is it not possible for me to be aware of something and be correct? Yeah, it sure is...if I state that I am right and that is that, does it make it so? No. But I am fairly careful about what I claim...just like the fact that you did not understand my post either...how is this wrong? When three of you read what I state and mis-interpret it and tell me that what I am saying means this when in fact what I am saying means something else...?

"There is no military reason for a draft."

Without understanding why, you are exactly correct. Woah! Did I just say that? Yes, because you are. There is no military reason for a draft nor did I ever claim that there was one.

Now the question is...can you, or the other kids, understand that this was my initial point and what is in fact the reason that I stated there should be a draft?

 

[-Demosthenes-]

I do think that some are people are wrong and some people are right...is this not simply how it is?

We just don't want to read some rambling about how stupid people are. One short paragraph, then you're done. Need anymore room to insult people save it for the next post

"There is no military reason for a draft."

Without understanding why, you are exactly correct. Woah! Did I just say that? Yes, because you are. There is no military reason for a draft nor did I ever claim that there was one.

I understand why there is no military reason, I just didn't understand that you meant that it would be needed for another reason. In the first post I can see that you mean this, but this is because you said it. In later posts (we are now 6 pages into this thread) you don't, you just tell people that they don't understand, and not why.

Not to say it wasn't our fault (and my fault) for not going off on the OP. But for clarity (and in order to deal with stupid people like me) it would be nice for you to clarify the hows and whys every time you say someone is wrong.

 

[BodiSatva]

That is a great point...truly.

I don't think that anybody here is stupid. I just think that people assume things and there are a lot of egos that will not yield, and that gets old. I just get tired of having people mis-interpret meaning and then turn around telling me or others what my intent was. I say that they miss it and they tell me that I am wrong...about my own intent? That is crazy. I don't want to have to re-explain anything. I then start with other tactics regarding understanding, something that few seem to grasp, yet you have here...and I commend you for your ability to just speak plainly and honestly...and to the point about the point. I do recall you having this innate understanding from our previous discussions though...but it has been a while...

I am not insulting anybody, but in describing how people assume things I am describing actions that people might not think are nice...I do go off a bit, I guess, I just like to hit it all...

More to the point...I said it initially...

Originally posted by BodiSatva -

The only way that I see this war ending soon, is if people start getting pissed. I mean the way they were in the 60's. Mass protests...debates...etc.

Why were the 60's turbulent? For many reasons, but one of them was the draft. Young people were affected and they spoke out about it. We should start the draft, that way people will get pissed and initiate change. Anyway, that was my thought.

I think that the only solution is a political one that begins with social unrest IN THIS COUNTRY.

How do we get people to care when we have an all voluntary military?

You make people involved through force...like I said in the 60's, this caused huge issues and protests...people care and DEMAND change...

I also mention that there are problems with my idea, and that is what I hoped this discussion would be about...creating social issues that would force political change...the politicians control the military, and we control the politicans (to a degree) with votes and money...

Well, that hopefully better explains WHAT MY INTENT WAS. :2razz:

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Well, that hopefully better explains WHAT MY INTENT WAS.

Perfectly.

Now I an correctly respond

The US has traditionally been one of the countries with the lowest amount of people who actually care about things outside their personally life, like politics or economics. This has been good in some respects, people spend no matter how bad the economy is, nearly making economic analysis useless in the US assuming that half the economy is in our minds. But in others, such as extremely low voter turnout, are very bad. Periods of time where groups of people care are established through social unrest, as you said.

To create this unrest in the simplest way, make it affect their personal lives (or make them care about politics and things outside their personal lives, but we're far too gone for this I fear). A draft will affect their personal lives, but there are other things. A raise in taxes somehow associated with the war would put the war's already questionable reputation in the gutter. Exposure of Bush's misleading remarks just prior to the war seem like a good idea, but in reality barely affect the public.

 

[BodiSatva]

Originally Posted by -Demosthenes-

A raise in taxes somehow associated with the war would put the war's already questionable reputation in the gutter.

This would accomplish even more than a draft. This is a good idea. I had not thought of this at all...and yet, it is so simply. :2razz:

Originally Posted by -Demosthenes-

Exposure of Bush's misleading remarks just prior to the war seem like a good idea, but in reality barely affect the public.

One would have thought that this might have been enough...though I do think that the Afghan mission was perfect...it is too bad that that an initial perfect mission was convoluted into this mess in Iraq.

 

[BodiSatva]

...oooops...double post.

 

[Duke]

Since you missed the ENTIRE POINT…I should be laughing at you
Both stsburns and Duke completely missed the point…
I mean, woah, you both totally missed the point…
Utterly and absolutely misunderstood my intentions…
Your assumptions are off base, especially Duke.
Where did you even come up with some of that?

I am not right because I say I am…I am right because initiating a draft would create….oh, why should I even bother with either of you? It is like I am telling people that the sun is hot and that I am right, and your response is not to find out if the sun is hot, thus indicating that I was right, but to laugh at me in ignorance and say, “hehe, he thinks he is right just because he says so, what an idiot…hehehaha, I am gonna laugh at you”. When all along, the sun is hot and you are laughing in ignorance. Sounds pretty pathetic to be you, this last paragraph is to all those that hate my confidence and cannot understand what actually transpires is not recognizable to all, though that does not mean that reality is hidden to all either…

Okay, so your point is................

Your point is that I missed your point? I've got an idea: Make a point!


Duke

 

[LeftyHenry]

This would accomplish even more than a draft. This is a good idea. I had not thought of this at all...and yet, it is so simply. :2razz:

ahh I finally understand what this thread is about: Ways this war would end! It all makes sense now :doh

One would have thought that this might have been enough...though I do think that the Afghan mission was perfect...it is too bad that that an initial perfect mission was convoluted into this mess in Iraq.

This is a great nation. You want to know why? Because a lie about a blowjob will get a president indicted but a lie that gets people killed won't.

 

[ProudAmerican]

I agree.... I'd like to see some conservatives' kids get shipped off to fight the war they love so much.

lmao, yeah....because we all know its only liberals children that go off to war.

:2rofll:

 

[Davo The Mavo]

Starting the Draft now, seems unlikely, but logistics do have a way of sneaking up on governments at war. So, as long as we our doing the job of world policeman, we may just have to start a Draft. I am not against it. However, as much as I would love to see at least 2-years of mandatory service to the country for all males 18-26 years of age, I would rather it be implemented in a time of Peace-----but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Before anyone has a conniption fit about the last couple of lines, please understand that in my opinion:
1. When and if women ever get an Equal Rights Amendment, they would be eligible for National Service, until then, they should not have to bear the burden.

2. National Service should not mean mandatory "MILITARY" Service.

3. Even the Rich and Educated can serve.

Homeland Security is a type of service our young men can provide. Border Patrols, Nuclear facilities, Water treatment plants and the like all need security upgrades, and what about the out of sight out of mind PORTS? How about serving in the Peace Corps or Ameri-Corps? And those who received deferments for educational pursuits can give their knowledge to scientific, medical, or educational programs after they finish school. No longer making them not eligible for service, just delaying it for the greater good.

In my family we have a tradition that has been going on since before I was ever born. The majority of all males enlist in the military after graduating from school. Before graduation in some cases during the Korean War and WWII. Some of us make it careers while others get out after one hitch----and who the President is does not have an effect on our decision to enter the service. Plus, it's good for you.

Just my opinion.

 

[LeftyHenry]

lmao, yeah....because we all know its only liberals children that go off to war.

:2rofll:

actually the brutal truth is that the people who go off to war are mostl people who couldn't care less about war. The working class because of the incredible bonuses and college education. Sure there are those who fight for America, but most as in at least 80% do it for the money.

 

[ProudAmerican]

actually the brutal truth is that the people who go off to war are mostl people who couldn't care less about war. The working class because of the incredible bonuses and college education. Sure there are those who fight for America, but most as in at least 80% do it for the money.

the fact that someone joins the military for an education doesnt diminish their sacrifice or bravery one bit in my eyes. I believe a person FIRST has to do it for love of country, and the education and money is just a bonus.

 

[-Demosthenes-]

It is rather easy to just respond to the title of the thread, as so many of us had. But anyway.

This would accomplish even more than a draft. This is a good idea. I had not thought of this at all...and yet, it is so simply.

Truly, but the hard part would be associating the tax it with the war.

 

[BodiSatva]

Way to go Duke! You are doing GREAT! haha

Che......
This is a discussion about getting people to care about the war...not to end it, that might be a byproduct of these ideas...who knows?
Most likely not, but your attitude is reflective of just another wannabe know-it-all... :lol:

What is actually great about this nation is that if you live here and you talk the way that you do...full of disrespect and disdain for this nationand its freedoms, then you do not end up dead or in a prison camp....I hope you don't live in the US...that attitude is actually disgusting, hate filled and sad... :3oops:

Bye guys :2wave: Take it easy and keep up the good work! :lol:

 

[Saboteur]

lmao, yeah....because we all know its only liberals children that go off to war.

:2rofll:

Well my point was that it's easy to accept war when your kid isn't being forced to go fight one. I'm sure that many people who support this war would dance to a different tune if the draft were reinstated.

Especially us armchair politicians.:lol:

 

[ProudAmerican]

I'm sure that many people who support this war would dance to a different tune if the draft were reinstated.

and many would still support this country and its efforts against terrorism.