Stage 3 testing doubts

[Paradoxical]

Your life may well depend on a thoroughly trialled vaccine. "But Sweden...". Your 'Sweden' myth has been thoroughly debunked by the way.

What you are failing to realize is that in many countries, the virus is spent. It killed almost all its gonna kill. In Manaus, in Sweden, in certain over crowded states in the U.S.

IOW, snakestretcher and others. The REASON that Sweden, NY, New Jersey and others are NOW having low death rates is BECAUSE they had high death rates BEFORE and there are fewer people left for the virus to kill. Call it immunity or call it what you will. Res ipsa loquitor.......it speaks for itself.

 

[Ethel2]

What you are failing to realize is that in many countries, the virus is spent. It killed almost all its gonna kill. In Manaus, in Sweden, in certain over crowded states in the U.S.

IOW, snakestretcher and others. The REASON that Sweden, NY, New Jersey and others are NOW having low death rates is BECAUSE they had high death rates BEFORE and there are fewer people left for the virus to kill. Call it immunity or call it what you will. Res ipsa loquitor.......it speaks for itself.

Unadulterated BS.
The reason that NY and NJ are having low death rates now is that they are not behaving like dumbasses. They wear masks; they keep six feet apart; and their governors enforce good behavior despite past mistakes.
You really think that there aren't any more 80 year old people in those states? LOLOL

 

[Paradoxical]

Unadulterated BS.
The reason that NY and NJ are having low death rates now is that they are not behaving like dumbasses. They wear masks; they keep six feet apart; and their governors enforce good behavior despite past mistakes.
You really think that there aren't any more 80 year old people in those states? LOLOL

You guys really don’t get simple logic and it’s embarrassing. Not everyone had the exiting conditions that the virus needs to kill them. IOW, some one could have diabetes but not to the extent that COVID would kill them. Same would hold true of others that have heart disease that aren’t killed. It doesn’t kill everyone who is old of everyone who has one of the preexisting conditions that the virus needs. This “they wear masks BETTER” is nonsense.

 

[Ethel2]

You guys really don’t get simple logic and it’s embarrassing. Not everyone had the exiting conditions that the virus needs to kill them. IOW, some one could have diabetes but not to the extent that COVID would kill them. Same would hold true of others that have heart disease that aren’t killed. It doesn’t kill everyone who is old of everyone who has one of the preexisting conditions that the virus needs. This “they wear masks BETTER” is nonsense.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you could explain your viewpoint in a different way.

 

[Paradoxical]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you could explain your viewpoint in a different way.

Let me try.

The Spanish flu was one of, if not the most deadly, flu viruses of all. It killed healthy people along with unhealthy people. Many millions died. Those that didn't had a chemical body composition where they either didn't get it, or if they did, they didn't die. Like today, even those who wore masks died. A virus has no mind. It doesn't care what it does or who it makes sick or dead. Like a parasite, it latches onto it's host human and does what it does. Those at the time who had developed strong immune systems from either having been exposed to viruses before or just being lucky that their bodily composition was such that the virus couldn't affect them lived. In THAT flu virus, for whatever reasons, it was far more deadly than others before it.

Fast forward to 2019. This FLU virus called Covid is deadly, but not nearly on a par with the Spanish flu. Not even close. WHY this is is unknown and science can only guess as to how many this virus would kill ad they were way off. ALL we can go by is mathematics and logic and history and that is clear. The virus kills FAR more elderly people and people with health issues than any other group. The chances of a HEALTHY person under 35 dying from it are pretty close to zero. The chances of a HEALTHY person under 65 are ALSO extremely low. Further, even for those OVER 65 who have NO preexisting conditions, the chances of them dying from COVID are also very low.

What can we discern from this math? By the way, when you get to large numbers, the likelihood of the percentages staying the same are very high. We can discern that the virus kills ONLY a certain segment of the population in every country around the world who are already sick with something and that percentage goes up the older one gets. It is another in a long list of Goebbelsian lies that "we are all at risk". We are NOT!

As Fitch said in a post a few days back,the virus has culled the herd in Sweden, Manaus, NY, New Jersey, Conn. and Mass BECAUSE those locales HAD high death rates already and the virus has no more (or very few) victims left.

 

[Ethel2]

No. Emphatically not. If you want a drug THOROUGHLY trialled, PROPERLY tested for safety and efficacy these are not things that can be rushed. If you try to you'll get incomplete, inaccurate and untrustworthy results-with potentially dangerous consequences. That's the reason clinical trial protocols were adopted in the first place. Learn:

Roche - What is a clinical trial and how does a trial work?

There are ways to "rush" a vaccine. Its already happening with many of them. Production of the vaccine is happening BEFORE Phase 3 trials are complete, so once it is shown to be safe and effective there will already be millions of doses. I don't think that has ever happened before. Another way to rush it, although most people would consider it to be unethical, is to give the vaccine to healthy volunteers and intentionally expose them to Covid. That has happened before, though I can't remember exactly which disease was involved. With the amount of money involved they can sign up tens of thousands of volunteers. The more volunteers you have, the sooner you can interpret the results. These vaccines are being "rushed", though I would submit that its so far being done safely.
There has been a single adverse reaction to the Astra Zeneca candidate. In Britain a female volunteer came down with transverse myelitis, an inflammation of the spinal cord. Its not yet clear that it was due to the vaccine though. People get this condition, which is serious, without being vaccinated.

 

[Ethel2]

Let me try.

The Spanish flu was one of, if not the most deadly, flu viruses of all. It killed healthy people along with unhealthy people. Many millions died. Those that didn't had a chemical body composition where they either didn't get it, or if they did, they didn't die. Like today, even those who wore masks died. A virus has no mind. It doesn't care what it does or who it makes sick or dead. Like a parasite, it latches onto it's host human and does what it does. Those at the time who had developed strong immune systems from either having been exposed to viruses before or just being lucky that their bodily composition was such that the virus couldn't affect them lived. In THAT flu virus, for whatever reasons, it was far more deadly than others before it.

Fast forward to 2019. This FLU virus called Covid is deadly, but not nearly on a par with the Spanish flu. Not even close. WHY this is is unknown and science can only guess as to how many this virus would kill ad they were way off. ALL we can go by is mathematics and logic and history and that is clear. The virus kills FAR more elderly people and people with health issues than any other group. The chances of a HEALTHY person under 35 dying from it are pretty close to zero. The chances of a HEALTHY person under 65 are ALSO extremely low. Further, even for those OVER 65 who have NO preexisting conditions, the chances of them dying from COVID are also very low.

What can we discern from this math? By the way, when you get to large numbers, the likelihood of the percentages staying the same are very high. We can discern that the virus kills ONLY a certain segment of the population in every country around the world who are already sick with something and that percentage goes up the older one gets. It is another in a long list of Goebbelsian lies that "we are all at risk". We are NOT!

As Fitch said in a post a few days back,the virus has culled the herd in Sweden, Manaus, NY, New Jersey, Conn. and Mass BECAUSE those locales HAD high death rates already and the virus has no more (or very few) victims left.

I see. First, coronavirus is not a flu virus; its different. Both affect the lungs, but in many other ways they are very different. There is a line of thinking among doctors now that this is an endothelial disease (=affecting the cells that line the blood vessels). One article I read looked at endothelial cells infected with coronavirus and the author said it looked like a gumball machine. Pretty scary.

Second, do you have statistics to back that claim up, that the virus has significantly "culled the herd". I have statistics to prove you are wrong:

1. There are about 45 million adults over age 65. The virus has plenty of us left to attack.

2. There are about 30 million Americans with diabetes

3. Nearly half of the adults in this country (about 108 million) have hypertension

4. Almost 40% of adults are obese (Adult Obesity Facts | Overweight & Obesity | CDC)

There are plenty of victims left for Covid to attack. Yes, there is some overlap, but there are a lot of us still susceptible to die from this.

Its true that we are all not at risk for death. But even a lot of the survivors have significant organ damage, especially to the heart. In addition, some people take a very long time (months) to finally recover. Can you afford to take months off work?

 

[Paradoxical]

I see. First, coronavirus is not a flu virus; its different. Both affect the lungs, but in many other ways they are very different. There is a line of thinking among doctors now that this is an endothelial disease (=affecting the cells that line the blood vessels). One article I read looked at endothelial cells infected with coronavirus and the author said it looked like a gumball machine. Pretty scary.

Second, do you have statistics to back that claim up, that the virus has significantly "culled the herd". I have statistics to prove you are wrong:

1. There are about 45 million adults over age 65. The virus has plenty of us left to attack.

2. There are about 30 million Americans with diabetes

3. Nearly half of the adults in this country (about 108 million) have hypertension

4. Almost 40% of adults are obese (Adult Obesity Facts | Overweight & Obesity | CDC)

There are plenty of victims left for Covid to attack. Yes, there is some overlap, but there are a lot of us still susceptible to die from this.

Its true that we are all not at risk for death. But even a lot of the survivors have significant organ damage, especially to the heart. In addition, some people take a very long time (months) to finally recover. Can you afford to take months off work?

You failed to carefully read what I posted I understand the predisposition. Your post has to do with the overall population and those with maladies such as diabetes and what not. If you paid careful attention to what I m trying to to teach you and others. Not everyone with a preexisting conditions will get COVID or die from it. You could get a thousand doctors and epidemiologists in a room and ask them why and get a thousand different answers because they don't have a clue. You will get a thousand speculations and maybes and possiblies and ahems.

It aint that easy Ethel. Humans want quick and easy answers and that is WHY they invented "God". People want answers and they imagine science, doctors, epidemiologists, and/or God has them. They DON'T, Nor do I. All I have is math and math don't lie.

 

[Ethel2]

You failed to carefully read what I posted I understand the predisposition. Your post has to do with the overall population and those with maladies such as diabetes and what not. If you paid careful attention to what I m trying to to teach you and others. Not everyone with a preexisting conditions will get COVID or die from it. You could get a thousand doctors and epidemiologists in a room and ask them why and get a thousand different answers because they don't have a clue. You will get a thousand speculations and maybes and possiblies and ahems.

It aint that easy Ethel. Humans want quick and easy answers and that is WHY they invented "God". People want answers and they imagine science, doctors, epidemiologists, and/or God has them. They DON'T, Nor do I. All I have is math and math don't lie.

As I wrote, I don’t completely understand the point you are trying to make. Of course not every at risk individual will die from Covid if they are infected. However, statistically, they remain at higher risk.
If you are trying in a circuitous way to say that there are factors that we don’t understand about what makes some people more susceptible, I agree.
My point is that there are known risk factors that are well documented. And there are PLENTY of Americans with those risk factors still alive. Most will survive and perhaps for reasons not yet known others will die.
If you are trying to say that the pool of at risk people (with known and unknown risk factors) is getting depleted I want to see the supporting data.
THIS is the part of your unsupported theory I disagree with:

“ As Fitch said in a post a few days back,the virus has culled the herd in Sweden, Manaus, NY, New Jersey, Conn. and Mass BECAUSE those locales HAD high death rates already and the virus has no more (or very few) victims left.”

 

[Ringo Stalin]

Russia has signed a deal with Mexico to sell 32 million doses of the Covid-19 vaccine.