South Dakota congress bans Abortion accept when mother's life is endangered

[Navy Pride]

after having gone through labor and the process of motherhood, NavyPride knows whats good for woman kind

I know what is good for the innocent, defenseless baby in the womb that is butchered my friend and that is life........Who speaks for them that can not speak for theirselves? You have compassion for murderers and rapists in that you don't want them executed...Where is your compassion for the innocent, defensless baby in the womb? They only want a chance for life like you got.........

 

[tryreading]

Are you becoming more warm and fuzzy? Certainly looks that way, that even sounded like a compliment to me.

The bold section certainly seems to fall under the Federal ruling on RoeVWade, and has stood for some 30 years I might add. I just don't look forward to the turmoil that revisiting this ruling will have on this country, we are divided enough already, we need unity desperately right now!

We are very divided. There is no real cooperation in Washington, except occasionally. Its all agenda, agenda. I really don't understand the two parties and the selfishness and childishness on both sides. Our energy problems get worse yearly, we may be dealing with a civil war in Iraq (which is no surprise, the potential has been building for three years), our buddy Putin is our enemy, the Mexican border is still porous, our ports are unprotected. I don't see anything that we are really serious about. Anything that we are truly serious about, and work together to solve, will be solved every time. But mid-term elections are coming, so let's don't fix anything that can be blamed on the other guy.

 

[Navy Pride]

Was slavery ever a law? If it was, it was not the law of the land, and so it was abolished. I am not convinced it is murder, that is if it's taken care of immediately, but late term abortions are certainly something that concerns me. This, "all or nothing" argument is just not feasible, and we all know we can not legislate morality, it just does not work.

A lot of people in this country believe life begins at conception..How do you answer them?

We part company on this one Deegan.....I usually agree with you on every issue.......I am saddened that a fine social coservative like you would think this way.........

 

[Deegan]

A lot of people in this country believe life begins at conception..How do you answer them?

We part company on this one Deegan.....I usually agree with you on every issue.......I am saddened that a fine social coservative like you would think this way.........

I answer them the same way I answer you Navy, unfortunately, morality can not be legislated, nor can I expect to convince another to act, and feel the way I do. I believe the best way to address this issue is by example, keep doing what you feel is right, keep teaching those you love the morals that have made you the person you are, this is all we can do. I can still not agree with abortion, but I can't stand in it's way, we tried that, and Navy, it failed miserably.

 

[Deegan]

We are very divided. There is no real cooperation in Washington, except occasionally. Its all agenda, agenda. I really don't understand the two parties and the selfishness and childishness on both sides. Our energy problems get worse yearly, we may be dealing with a civil war in Iraq (which is no surprise, the potential has been building for three years), our buddy Putin is our enemy, the Mexican border is still porous, our ports are unprotected. I don't see anything that we are really serious about. Anything that we are truly serious about, and work together to solve, will be solved every time. But mid-term elections are coming, so let's don't fix anything that can be blamed on the other guy.

Amen to that brother, I actually use to wait anxiously for the elections, now I can't stand the thought of it, something has changed, and for the worst I fear.

 

[aquapub]

Also, I understand what some of you here are saying about Amendment X, but does that supercede the 'Supremacy Clause?'

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Supremacy Clause, part of Article VI
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.txt

New York and Virginia originally refused to sign the Constitution for fear that it would some day be used to trample their rights. The Bill of Rights was drafted specifically to reassure them that the new federal government would not trample their rights.

The Bill of Rights was a protection of the states from the federal government.

The Constitution lists very specific and limited powers for the federal government and this clause you are citing is merely stating that whatever treaties or laws are passed at the federal level (which were only supposed to be limited to things like military funding and interstate commerce) are hereby agreed upon by the states via signing the Constitution.

It is NOT an authorization of the federal government to interfere with anything like abortion.

The interpretation you are offering is a common misunderstanding. If what you are saying was what they would have meant by this clause, the Constitution would have never been ratified by the states.

 

[RightinNYC]

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus of pro-choice, anti-Roe people here.

Agreed.

Roe is one of the most ridiculous examples of the court overstepping its bounds in recent history. How about Stevens follows through with his dedication to making decisions based on foreign law? The US is one of only six countries that permits abortion on demand up to viability.

 

[LeftyHenry]

I know what is good for the innocent, defenseless baby in the womb that is butchered my friend and that is life........Who speaks for them that can not speak for theirselves?

I don't support abortion really, I just think that it's a woman's body so she should be able to do what she wants with it. I think that if she's not ready for motherhood, then she shouldn't be forced into it.

You have compassion for murderers and rapists in that you don't want them executed...

I don't have compassion for murderers and rapists as you seem think. I just think that it should be the goal of jails to rehabilitate criminals rather than make them worse off. life in jail without parole is just as bad as death and it's probably worse considering the fact that the convict will be forced to think about what he did for the rest of his life. it is not compassion it's just a more civilized form of punishment.

Where is your compassion for the innocent, defensless baby in the womb? They only want a chance for life like you got.........

like I said before, it's the mother's choice because it is she who has to deal with the pain of labor. Not you. Also the mother may not be ready. She may be too young and something like a baby will ruin her life. Why potentially cripple a woman's life for a blob of unformed cells. You seem unhesitant to send our hard trained soldiers to their death, but determined in stopping abortion. Why the change in value of human life Navy?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Agreed.

Roe is one of the most ridiculous examples of the court overstepping its bounds in recent history. How about Stevens follows through with his dedication to making decisions based on foreign law? The US is one of only six countries that permits abortion on demand up to viability.

you realize that if we ban abortion, people will still have them in back alleys and etc..

 

[Navy Pride]

I answer them the same way I answer you Navy, unfortunately, morality can not be legislated, nor can I expect to convince another to act, and feel the way I do. I believe the best way to address this issue is by example, keep doing what you feel is right, keep teaching those you love the morals that have made you the person you are, this is all we can do. I can still not agree with abortion, but I can't stand in it's way, we tried that, and Navy, it failed miserably.

Well Roe V wade legislated morality.....It is bad law and should be overturned....

To me it has very little to do with morality though.....My heart crys out for those babies lives that are being taken away..........They deserve the chance at life that we all got.............

You are one voice and sure you can speak out against unnecessary abortion......I believe there is a ground swell against unnecessary abortion that will continue to grow...........I can only hope before I start pushing up daisys this violent barbaric act against the defenseless unborn will cease........

 

[RightinNYC]

you realize that if we ban abortion, people will still have them in back alleys and etc..

1) Did I say that "we" (its not even clear what you're referring to) should ban abortion?
2) That whole meme of "the exact same number of people will still have abortions" is patently false. While some may still choose to pursue them illegally, there will be drastically less.
3) Regardless of your position on the terribleness of women having abortions in alleys, I believe that the people should have the right to take the current system, weigh it against that possibility, and make the decision on their own.

 

[Deegan]

Well Roe V wade legislated morality.....It is bad law and should be overturned....

To me it has very little to do with morality though.....My heart crys out for those babies lives that are being taken away..........They deserve the chance at life that we all got.............

You are one voice and sure you can speak out against unnecessary abortion......I believe there is a ground swell against unnecessary abortion that will continue to grow...........I can only hope before I start pushing up daisys this violent barbaric act against the defenseless unborn will cease........

I certainly appreciate your obvious consideration for the unborn, I feel the same, but at some point we have to face the facts, abortions are not going anywhere. Sure, if this is overturned, some states may go the way of outlawing them, but your feelings, and mine will still never be satisfied, as they will go on elsewhere. As I said, the goal should be education, we should teach our young people to respect life, and that means being responsible when that life is very possible, and in the back of Dads station wagon on Friday night!

I guess what I saying is this, while your goal is admirable, it's just not attainable buddy, I hope you get past this, I really do.

 

[Navy Pride]

I certainly appreciate your obvious consideration for the unborn, I feel the same, but at some point we have to face the facts, abortions are not going anywhere. Sure, if this is overturned, some states may go the way of outlawing them, but your feelings, and mine will still never be satisfied, as they will go on elsewhere. As I said, the goal should be education, we should teach our young people to respect life, and that means being responsible when that life is very possible, and in the back of Dads station wagon on Friday night!

I guess what I saying is this, while your goal is admirable, it's just not attainable buddy, I hope you get passed this, I really do.

I never will get by it as long as I have a breath in my body...........To think of 40,000,000 abortions performed since 1972 the majority unnecessary when the mothers life was not endangered, many performed for birth control or because the woman was having a bad hair day pains me more then you will ever know......

We are on the right side of this issue, the good people of South Dakota know that and hopefully Roe V wade will be thrown out and abortion on demand will go away and the issue will revert back to the states where it belongs.......

I can remember what the Ex Coach of North Carolina State Jimmy Valvano said when he was dying of cancer.........In a quivering voice and racked with pain He said "Don't give up, don't ever give up." May he rest in peace.....

I will never give up on this issue as long as there is a breath left in my body.......

 

[Deegan]

I never will get by it as long as I have a breath in my body...........To think of 40,000,000 abortions performed since 1972 the majority unnecessary when the mothers life was not endangered, many performed for birth control or because the woman was having a bad hair day pains me more then you will ever know......

We are on the right side of this issue, the good people of South Dakota know that and hopefully Roe V wade will be thrown out and abortion on demand will go away and the issue will revert back to the states where it belongs.......

I can remember what the Ex Coach of North Carolina State Jimmy Valvano said when he was dying of cancer.........In a quivering voice and racked with pain He said "Don't give up, don't ever give up." May he rest in peace.....

I will never give up on this issue as long as there is a breath left in my body.......

I hope you use that energy, and commitment in a positive way, education, you could do great things in that fashion, that's what I really meant.

 

[Navy Pride]

[QUOTEyou realize that if we ban abortion, people will still have them in back alleys and etc..][/QUOTE]

That is such a sham and left wing spin and talking points............What would happen is abortion would revert back to the states.......

 

[Navy Pride]

I hope you use that energy, and commitment in a positive way, education, you could do great things in that fashion, that's what I really meant.

40,000,000 million abortions since 1972......Think about it Deegan...3,500 estimated every day...........

 

[Navy Pride]

I hope you use that energy, and commitment in a positive way, education, you could do great things in that fashion, that's what I really meant.

I will never change my friend.........I will always fight for the life of the unborn....It takes precedent over ever other political issues for me and always will...................I will do whatever it takes short of breaking the law.......That is how strongly I feel.........

Anyhow enough about me and how I feel............

 

[Deegan]

40,000,000 million abortions since 1972......Think about it Deegan...3,500 estimated every day...........

Some would say that, that is 40 million children that are not abused, neglected, or left in adoption and other governmental agencies, have you considered that. I have, and if a child is not born, that is not wanted, nor can be taken care of, that child may be better served with the Lord.

 

[Navy Pride]

Some would say that, that is 40 million children that are not abused, neglected, or left in adoption and other governmental agencies, have you considered that. I have, and if a child is not born, that is not wanted, nor can be taken care of, that child may be better served with the Lord.

That is the subject for a whole another thread and it is tragic but it has nothing to do with killing in the womb.........There are long lists of couples waiting to adopt new borns......I had friends that waited 3 years and finally gave up and adopted from Korea.......I knew some other people who waited 5 years and finally adopted from Poland.........

There are all kinds of agencies and charitable organizations that will help a mother who can't aford to go through a pregnancy.......

The fact is there is no real excuse to have and unneccesary abortion.....

 

[Obilisk]

like I said before, it's the mother's choice because it is she who has to deal with the pain of labor. Not you. Also the mother may not be ready. She may be too young and something like a baby will ruin her life. Why potentially cripple a woman's life for a blob of unformed cells.

I believe we've reached a sad point in our nation's history when we've come to accept the notion that children routinely ruin lives. Especially when there is so much evidence to the contrary. It'd be interesting to see poll numbers asking mothers whether they are glad their children are alive. I imagine those responding yes would be in the majority...just possibly. So what is this nonsense about children ruining lives? Is it just some silly liberal notion that somehow fundamentally those who wish to have abortions are less likely to love their children? I'd love to see that argument made. In fact, I'd like to see polls asking mother's who were unable to have abortions Pre-Roe, but wished to, whether or not they're glad they were so constrained. The simple fact is, all prospective parents face doubts and fears. Every prospective parent wonders whether or not they'll be able to truly raise a life into adulthood without completely botching the job. And every prospective parent wonders, sometimes vocally and sometimes with a resolute taciturn silence, but always, always, apprehensively whether or not now is the right time, whether something important isn't being sacrificed to give a child life and love. Well, I'll tell you right now, something important often is sacrificed. But I haven't heard an awful lot of mother's complain that the sacrifice wasn't worth it. Many women throughout this country are simply being hoodwinked. Hoodwinked into seeing an enemy where none exists. Hoodwinked into believing that from the moment they give birth, they'll never know a moment of happiness again, and that in some fundamental way, they'll be doomed to a life barely worth living. Unfortunately life is never that simple. You'd think liberals of all people would recognize this. Shades of grey don't exist merely when it's convenient.

 

[ludahai]

I agree with the majority, as much as I don't agree with Roe V Wade, it is settled law, and I think you are going to see a lot of foolish Senators when this is decided that precedent wins the day.

ROE V WADE is not LAW! Law is passed by legislatures, not dictated by judicial fiat.

Once upon a time, SCOTUS stood by the Dred Scott decision and Plessey .v Ferguson. Those were both horrible, unjust decisions. So is Roe which still results in the death of more than one million innocent children every year in the US.

 

[ludahai]

Was slavery ever a law? If it was, it was not the law of the land, and so it was abolished. I am not convinced it is murder, that is if it's taken care of immediately, but late term abortions are certainly something that concerns me. This, "all or nothing" argument is just not feasible, and we all know we can not legislate morality, it just does not work.

Slavery was once protected by the Constitution and was legal in more than half of the States. Some states gave Blacks freedom and forbid slavery. However, SCOTUS ruled that unconstitutional in the Dred Scott Decision. It took a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to forever rid the nation of the scourge of slavery.

 

[Deegan]

ROE V WADE is not LAW! Law is passed by legislatures, not dictated by judicial fiat.

Once upon a time, SCOTUS stood by the Dred Scott decision and Plessey .v Ferguson. Those were both horrible, unjust decisions. So is Roe which still results in the death of more than one million innocent children every year in the US.

But the over whelming majority think it should be law, our society is who chose this path, and the courts followed. This is where I questioned the ruling, the majority is not always correct, but in this case, it's not really a controllable practice at this point, it's settled by law, and by society, end of story, we lose.

 

[ludahai]

New York and Virginia originally refused to sign the Constitution for fear that it would some day be used to trample their rights. The Bill of Rights was drafted specifically to reassure them that the new federal government would not trample their rights.

The Bill of Rights was a protection of the states from the federal government.

Unfortunately, the States essentially sacrificed their right to be a check on the federal government when Senators were to be elected by the people rather than by the State legislators. The selection of Senators by the States was designed to be a check of the States on the Union to PREVENT the gross violations of States Rights that has been happening in the 20th century, and unfortunately into the 21st.

 

[Deegan]

Slavery was once protected by the Constitution and was legal in more than half of the States. Some states gave Blacks freedom and forbid slavery. However, SCOTUS ruled that unconstitutional in the Dred Scott Decision. It took a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to forever rid the nation of the scourge of slavery.

"Protected" Under what, "All men are created equal"?

No, there was never a constitutional argument, let's not confuse the issue.:roll: