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Something that bothers me....

Fletch said:
I don't think there is a lack of empathy toward 'immigrants.' The lack of empathy lies with those immigrants who are here illegally. As for the American Indians, they were not one homogenous people but scattered tribes who lived on land they or their ancestors secured through battle. They simply lost it to a superior army. I heard a number once that the number of American Indians living on the continent when we arrived was somewhere around 8 million--or the population of Long Island. In truth, the vast, vast majority of this country was and still is uninhabited.
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The furthest one can be from a road in the entire lower 48 is just 24 miles. We are hardly uninhabited. Granted we don't have the population density of Western Europe, but thats a good thing. Also, population estimates for Native Americans in the United States prior to settlement run between 7 million and 18 million. That seems low, but at the time the populaton of all of Europe was only a little more than 70 million.
 
Josie said:
I heard someone today discussing illegal immigration and he said, "Well, when you think about it -- we're ALL immigrants."

Ugh. That annoys me. I am not an immigrant. I was born in the USA and I've never even stepped foot in a different country. My parents, grandparents and great-grandparents also weren't immigrants. We are not our ancestors.

Discuss.
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I think the meaning of the phrase is that unless one is a Native American, our predecessors were immigrants somewhere along the line.
 
Josie said:
Why should I change how I feel about this? Do you want to be called something you aren't?
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You want to ignore USA is a world power whose first citizens were immigrants and you will always come across this kind of claims,try thinking in a globalist way
 
SheWolf said:
I don't buy into the illegal immigration slogan.
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Why? Immigration is not a problem. Immigrants have contributed massively to our country and society. The problem is illegal immigration. Why should we think otherwise?

The right wing complains about Muslims and the lost of culture. Anne Coulter often phrases it as the browning of America.
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You make an assumption that everyone on the right thinks like Ann Coulter. Is "browning of America" an inaccurate phrase. What would be more accurate? I haven't heard anyone complain about a loss of culture from muslims. I think the issue is about muslims engaged in islamism and those who support them.

Furhermore, I don't think think the average American understands the difference between immigrant and naturalized citizen.
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Neither do you. It is possible for the same person to be both an immigrant and a naturalized citizen. Naturalized citizens are immigrants, are they not? If they were born here they would be natural citizens. I might suggest that the blogs and writings you read are partisan and not accurate.
 
Medusa said:
You want to ignore USA is a world power whose first citizens were immigrants and you will always come across this kind of claims,try thinking in a globalist way
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The problem with the globalist's vision is that it flies in the face of the history of mankind. Once ancient people learned the benefit of community, there has been no time in human history where people lived outside a community structure based on common values and identity.

What was once a tribal group became a village, then a town, then a city, then a country. Mankind developed means to protect such structures from outsiders who didn't share the values of those who lived there. History records integration from the outside required new members be vetted and accepted, regardless of origin.

At no time in recorded history have borders been ignored, and nations successfully blended. The fact the EU is fragmenting over responsibilities and contributions is a testament to ignoring this inherent part of human nature and evolution.
 
According to the census, 271 million are natural born americans, and thus not immigrants. So we are not all immigrants. Only about 40 million of us are, about 12%. 6% if you exclude those who arent US citizens (just here on VISA)

234 million are even 3rd generation and higher americans.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The furthest one can be from a road in the entire lower 48 is just 24 miles. We are hardly uninhabited. Granted we don't have the population density of Western Europe, but thats a good thing. Also, population estimates for Native Americans in the United States prior to settlement run between 7 million and 18 million. That seems low, but at the time the populaton of all of Europe was only a little more than 70 million.
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"The furthest one can be from a road in the entire lower 48 is just 24 miles."

That's a hell of a statistic. Even out West in the likes of 'Big Sky Country' ? Really? :wow:
 
Medusa said:
You want to ignore USA is a world power whose first citizens were immigrants and you will always come across this kind of claims,try thinking in a globalist way
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Okay, I'll put my globalist hat on. Hmmmmm.....nope. Still not an immigrant.
 
Your Star said:
Technically, no. But that phrase is used to hopefully provide a little empathy towards immigrants. To remind us that, yes, even people who looked like you were immigrants. Also, it's never a bad thing to remind people that this country belonged to the native people that lived on this land for centuries before our people landed, and we basically just straight up took the continent. That's not something that we should overlook. Should we be blamed for it? Of course not, but it's important to remember that history. It adds a certain perspective on things.
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Do you see a lot of people complaining about legal immigration? The US takes in approx 1 million legal immigrant applicants a year. I dont know that I have ever seen ANYONE suggest we should bar legal immigration.
 
americanwoman said:
Actually I think it's based more on this. If I recall right it's based on their tribe and their land and even though they don't live on the reservation they still get a check.


Frequently Asked Questions - Native American Rights Fund : Native American Rights Fund
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Okay, that's a lot different from what I was referring to. I was talking about government welfare payments that only accrue to those who remain on reserves. You're referring to what is, in effect, dividend payments to members of the consortium who own stock in a company. The tribe members, as members, own shares in revenue the tribe generates from whatever economic activity they allow on their lands and they pay dividends on those shares in the form of monthly allowances that go to the individual whether they reside on the reserve or not. All the power in the world to natives who've discovered capitalism to the benefit of their communities.

That kind of payment I'm all for. I fully respect and encourage native peoples exploiting their lands to benefit their communities. I don't support government largesse that is bestowed on natives just because they are natives as a form of guilt atonement that I don't personally feel one bit.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I think the meaning of the phrase is that unless one is a Native American, our predecessors were immigrants somewhere along the line.
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As were 'Native Americans'...at one point immigrants. But how is that even relevant? No one is fighting against legal immigration. Ive never seen anyone suggest legal immigration should be stopped or legal immigrants should be kicked out. So...what could possibly be relevant about the rabidly incorrect slogan 'we are all immigrants'?
 
It just occurred to me that the term "we are a nation of immigrants" is absurd for another reason. If that were true, not a single person would be eligible to run for President in your country.

It is far more appropriate, in my view, to acknowledge, as I do here in Canada, that we are a great nation largely built with the assistance of immigrants, but only those immigrants who walk through the front door, not those who sneak in the back window.
 
Josie said:
I also don't think it's weird to think the average American considers their ancestry to be important. I do think it's weird for non-immigrants to call themselves immigrants.
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I actually do think it rather strange people care about their ancestry. My kids asked me if were Danish or Scottish considering our maternal vs paternal lineage. I told them the brutal truth....they are 7th generation Americans. My paternal ancestry came to the US from Denmark in 1887. Our lineage has been traced to 600AD in some parts of the family line with some very interesting branches. My maternal lineage traces through Scotland with lots of variants. Their maternal ancestry is British and Irish. And what does that make them? Still...7th generation Americans. They dont have a 'homeland' in Denmark or Scotland, or anywhere else. For the life of me I dont know why anyone would care about 'where they are from'.

But I agree completely that it is weird for people that have been here 6, 7, and 8 generations to consider themselves immigrants.
 
Lord of Planar said:
One thing that gets me is almost all of my ancestry came to the states after the civil war, yet I am to blame for slavery because I am white...

Go figure...
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How do you think I feel? We didn't set foot on this land until the 1960's :)
 
Visbek said:
Are you Cherokee? Apache? Seminole?

You're the child of immigrants. Deal with it.
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Actually she is most likely the great great great great great great grandchild of an immigrant. At least. If you think that makes you an 'immigrant'...well...thats just plain goofy.
 
Ikari said:
...By Native Americans. That's the term for American Indians.
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No...American Indians is the term for American Indians. Or just Indians, though most prefer their tribal association if they are going to be appropriately labelled. Native Americans is a PC label that was assigned to them by leftists. i have NEVER met an American Indian that wasnt part of some political group that has used the term or even accepted it. In point of fact...the term 'Native American' is ABSOLUTELY offensive if you are an Indian. "You were a native of this great land which we went ahead and took the liberty of naming for you."
 
VanceMack said:
No...American Indians is the term for American Indians. Or just Indians, though most prefer their tribal association if they are going to be appropriately labelled. Native Americans is a PC label that was assigned to them by leftists. i have NEVER met an American Indian that wasnt part of some political group that has used the term or even accepted it. In point of fact...the term 'Native American' is ABSOLUTELY offensive if you are an Indian. "You were a native of this great land which we went ahead and took the liberty of naming for you."
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....pretty sure we call them Native Americans now. I mean, if they're going to be pissed because we named the land America and then called them Native Americans, shouldn't they also be pissed that we call them Indians at all? I mean, we made that up too.

But whatever, PC or not, that's what the term refers to as of now.
 
SheWolf said:
I don't buy into the illegal immigration slogan. The right wing complains about Muslims and the lost of culture. Anne Coulter often phrases it as the browning of America. Furhermore, I don't think think the average American understands the difference between immigrant and naturalized citizen.
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My objection is when the liberals lump in "illegal immigrants" as simply "immigrants", as if one and the other are the same. I have the greatest respect for legal immigrants who go through the process and become US citizens legally. And I am against allowing a massive influx of refugees from for instance "Syria" before viable vetting processes can be set up. Look what has happened to France and Germany. The primary religion of those refugees has been radicalized. Until we can separate the radicalized from the non-radicalized, I have no problem in banning those refugees from entering the US. And I do not care if that sounds bigoted. I do think we can help them in other ways. I had no problem with the massive influx of Vietnamese at the close of the Vietnam war, however we had nothing to fear from them. Buddhism was not radicalized and they assimilated...whereas muslims are demanding and unfortunately getting sharia law in the enclaves where they live in France and Great Britain.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, if you aren't descendent from American Indians, you are the descendent of an immigrant. While the person who said that was technically incorrect, surely you can understand his point...?

Being a descendent of immigrants is something to be proud of. Without the courage and fortitude of at least one immigrant, you wouldn't be here.
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I have American Indian heritage as well as British and Irish heritage. While I am proud of that, it still does not make me an immigrant. I was born and raised in the USA.
 
Ikari said:
....pretty sure we call them Native Americans now. I mean, if they're going to be pissed because we named the land America and then called them Native Americans, shouldn't they also be pissed that we call them Indians at all? I mean, we made that up too.

But whatever, PC or not, that's what the term refers to as of now.
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'We'? Who is 'we'? Certainly not 'they'.

Indians is what MOST of 'them' grew up with and its what they accept. Again...I doubt you will find very many Indians not affiliated with some sort of political group referring to themselves as a "Native American". So as a correct term...it would certainly apply to ANYONE born in the country.
 
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